leavesontheline

Ryanair would still find a way to charge you for your own sh1# though 😁 This article brings all the school boy puns to my mind.... "Whizz Air - your Number One Airline" Brings a whole new meaning to "dumping fuel"..... I could go on....!

Nice model, just let down by the back-scene beyond the signal.......😃

Read the title a bit too quick in the 'View New Content' list and wondered why anyone would want PANTS for model trains in the UK..... Very sorry but I have no constructive comments to add on paints .....

Nailsea and Backwell Station?

Yes, very nice to see Sheep Dip today. Maybe the third (?) of your excellent layouts I've seen in the flesh. Did you see 'Bleat'? His sheep were flocked .....

Everyone too busy with their heads down looking at their phones to notice the archway above them!

Welcome back! C908 Someone has got the wrong scale cow on their layout 😄

Sorry, $ won't help much 😆 As it happens, I did initially put 'Cheltenham Model Centre' as it was very similar to price labels on items that I knew had come from that shop, however, a bit later on I found some more identical bright orange labels and via a bit of 'digital archaeology' managed to pinpoint the purchases to Transport Models in Preston. So no-where near the Southwest of the UK 🤣. I did visit that shop once though, which is now sadly closed. As you say, usually some evidence comes to light to enable a later update but at the moment I do still have two complete 'unknowns' per the images below and I am nearly at the end of the cataloguing exercise..... so hopefully there won't be any more! For UK modellers out there, once again, does anyone recognise these labels from their local retailer? I won't restrict it to the South West this time as these seem to be 'one-off's that I could have purchased anywhere! ("Happy days" when you could pick up a new Bachmann wagon for these prices!) Edited just to say that I think the second one below (the 'Our Price' sticker, no, not from the record store!) is actually from Durham Trains of Stanley, via a bit of memory trawling and a look at their website and facebook page! Still can't place the first one though. It would be a shame if this ended up as the only 'unknown shop' in my database!

Well yes, you would reasonably expect that, but so far I have been able to identify the source of most models purchased in shops, from their labels! Obviously this relies on having some 'confirmed' purchases, but it is surprising how many stick to their preferred label/label machine over the years! Also, my list of likely retailers doesn't cover a very wide distance which helps!!

Yes, thankyou, they were certainly high on my list of traders that I would have bought brand new items from at shows in this part of the country, but I also have models from them where the name "Cheltenham Model Centre" is also printed on the labels and they are white. Of course they could be of a different era and the other possibility is that they might use completely different labels for show stock compared to shop stock..... as any other shop/trader might well do. Its not vital that I find out obviously, but its just bugging me! Out of hundreds of models these are the only few I can't place!

Bit of a strange question this, but does anyone recognise the shop (or show trader) that this price tag/sticker might have come from? Most likely someone who is based in, or attends shows in the West, South West and South Wales. Reason for asking is that I am currently cataloguing my models and so far I have been able to establish the source of all models whether purchased in-person or online, but not this one! It is quite a distinctive sticker being almost fluorescent orange. This could be any time over the past ten years or so but I find most retailers stick to the same type of labels generally. I have models with this same sticker separated by several years, but can't trace any of them to a specific trader or show, or purchase! Thanks in hope that's its someone's local shop!

I haven't really checked any others no but no other price rises have jumped out at me like this one has. As it happens there is another interesting 'comparison' I have just found out about - over on the Accurascale thread about their acquisition of the Hattons Andrew Barclay and P Class models. I bought a couple of these for £99 in 2018 which was the selling price new from Hattons. So I was amazed to read this evening that Hattons had been due to sell this next batch for less, at £85. I was then even more surprised to read that Accurascale were apologising for having to put the price up to ..... wait for it ...... £99! So exactly the same as six years ago. These are very fine models and I'm sure the assembly time must be up there with the larger 8F due to all the extra details! I don't know all the details behind the manufacture of either model and what the actual production cost is, but I do find this comparison fascinating all the same! I know there are so many reasons for price rises and the situation 'is what it is' but that doesn't stop us from wondering 'why' and 'how' sometimes! I also believe that there are many industries, markets, companies who are just capitalising on various global situations to charge the customer more, or at least 'test the market' and see what people will pay!

For all we know, maybe someone already is?! It wouldn't surprise me, same as other Hornby models of this era like the Rebuilt Bulleid Pacifics that kicked off Hornby's 'revival' with Chinese manufacture along with the Black 5 as you already mention. There is no doubting any of this but I just wonder how many they will sell at £250 or even the -10% selling price of £225? The typical selling price of the latest Hornby 9F, at about £200, is kind of justifiable (as much as any prices are justifiable these days!) as it is arguably one of the best OO steam models out there and could be considered 'state of the art'. But the 8F, though still one of my favourite Hornby models, has no-where near the fidelity and presence of the latest 9F. They are leagues apart. In this latest 8F the 'change in design' seems to be to downgrade the smokebox to make it cheaper to manufacture! All mine have separate smokebox door darts and lamp irons too! Just look at the likes of R2229, R2462 and R3564 on Hattons' website (another reason I'll really miss Hattons). I was paying around £60-£70 in the early-mid 2010's for brand new 8F's and the last one I bought was R3564 in 2017 which was about £110 (selling price). I just can't get my head around the jump from £110 in 2017 to £225 in 2024 (just!). We won't know the reasons for the price increase (other than, as you say, just to make money) but this seems an unreasonable hike for this particular model or 'grade' of model. I wonder how many other models or even general electronics goods have seen prices double in the past 6-7 years? Edited just to add, that by my own reasoning and numbers, it actually doubled in price from say 2010 to 2017, so I guess why shouldn't it double again in the following 7 years!! Maybe to me 2010 to 2017 seemed like a long time apart, but 2017 still seems like barely yesterday. I guess that's the lost 'covid years' for you! I still think there is a ceiling for such a model and this has now been exceeded though.

Great show and very well attended from what I could see! Really nice variety of layouts and plenty of traders for 'bits and pieces' type stuff plus second hand models. Number of family groups very noticeable and I saw plenty of exhibitors going 'above and beyond' to engage the kids which was nice to see.

Totally agree with that (though I always cycled to and from work, so I miss the commute!) but why are the roads so busy when supposedly quite large numbers of the workforce still WFH?

Yeah, my old pancake motor locos don't need sound, they come with their own built in 'soundtrack' 🤣

Totally agree with this. Us humans are (mostly!) social animals and need face to face contact with other humans. A good analogy is the "working from home" increase we have seen since the COVID pandemic. Whilst lots of people made WFH work quite well during lockdowns, how many companies are now reversing WFH policies and requiring employees to come back into the office citing productivity and mental health issues?! There are still lots of people working from home (including me and not through choice I might add) and I think it will take a long time for the impact of this on general mental wellbeing of the nation, to be felt or quantified. One positive outcome though, is that because I don't get that human contact throughout my working day with colleagues, I am actually considering joining local clubs, societies and social groups relating to my hobbies, whereas in the past I have never felt the need to do so! Anyway, sorry for another off-topic post on Tony's thread - back to the modelling!

A long time I hope! I think it is easy to look only within one's peer group and see trends that actually don't reflect the wider demographic! I have recently snuck into my 50's. I grew up in the 70's and 80's and so have no recollection of steam trains other than preserved lines. As a pre-teen my parents and my pocket money had bought me model railway stuff for a few years and I had a nice little permanent layout in my bedroom. Then as a teenager I 'grew out of it' somewhat, became interested in other hobbies, such as RC cars, bikes, then real cars, studies, jobs and life got in the way for a couple of decades! (I think in the Lego world they call this period your 'dark ages'!!) During this time my parents and latterly me had kept hold of my old Airfix, Lima, Hornby and Mainline stuff, a mixture of steam and 'modern' (i.e. BR blue) diesel, stored safely somewhere in the house. Then about 20 years ago, partly prompted by a young nephew becoming interested in model railways after his Dad got all his childhood models out of his parents loft, I did the same! Also at this time, my Dad retired and started to realise his childhood dream of building a layout. Deciding my old models were in too good a state to give to my nephew I helped him get some of his Dad's models running and of course family members were buying him 'Thomas' models. We took him along to a local show and that was where I realised that my childhood interest in model railways was being rekindled! I am still in full time work in a very demanding job, have other hobbies too and don't really have the space for a permanent layout presently, but thanks to the shared interest now with my Dad and helping my Nephew about 10-15 years ago, for the past 20 years I have been slowly 'purchasing and planning'! My aim is that a layout will be started before I retire, even if it is only a bookshelf type affair, on which to hone my 'skills' (I am hopeful of some!) In the meantime I simply enjoy a quick running session around a temporary double loop 'test track' with a bit of shunting. I find this quite therapeutic and a good way to 'wind down'. Maybe with the right house move, the big layout will start long before I retire! Since taking my Nephew to that first local show, I have continued attending shows, sometimes with my Dad if we are in the same part of the country when there is one happening! I subscribe to two model railway magazines, and I occasionally might do a bit of 'modelling' such as building wagon kits or detailing locomotives and frequently 'mooch' around on RMweb if I'm at a loose end late in the evening. I'd love to do more but circumstances prevent this at the moment. These days, when I attend such shows, it often surprises me a) how many really excited children attend (and not always with parents who are interested themselves!) and b) how many of the exhibitors are younger than me! I'd say that the proportion of young people at shows has possibly increased since I started attending about 20 years ago. So I think that the point I am very long-windedly getting to is yes, model railways are always going to be the preserve of grey haired men because they, statistically/demographically, are always most likely going to have the time, space, funds and inclination to 'get serious' with the hobby, but I think the next generation will always be coming through in some format or another. Maybe this is via a keen parent, or Uncle/Aunt or Grandad/Grandma but even if the excited child at the show is only interested in trains for a couple of years, I believe the seed is sown and there is a good chance they will come back to it in later life like I have, even if they don't have anything to do with trains as a teenager and young adult! I have no doubt that my Nephew will get back into it one day. This could well be when he has kids of his own! I am as interested in steam era as I am in 'diesel' in its various guises throughout my life (not so bothered by 'electric' though!) so my interest has been influenced by my Dad, by model railway shows over the past 20 years, by seeing preserved mainline steam, by reading magazines and books and of course by following your and other's inspirational layouts and modelling on this very forum as well as YouTube and other websites. So if interest in steam era models isn't dying out just because people who remember 'the real thing' running are dying off, I see no reason why the hobby as a whole should be fizzling out either, just because the current generation of the 'modelling elite' are getting older! As others have mentioned perhaps the way people interested in model railways get their 'fix' is changing? One thing I have never done, is join or visit my local club. Partly this is down to lack of time, partly it is because I don't really think I have anything I can 'offer' the club myself at this point in my life. Maybe it is partly because in my mind, my local club is a tight-knit bunch of old blokes drinking tea and also 'in my mind' I'm not ready for that yet 😃. In reality, I am sure I am completely wrong on all counts and would be welcomed with open arms, but I can see how the wider public, young people, parents of young people, and especially women and girls, might see a model railway club as a bit of a 'closed group' ! I'm sure some clubs and members would prefer to keep it this way as 'club night' can also be an escape from the family and a place where you don't have to 'mind your p's and q's' and be on your best behaviour all the time but just enjoy a bit of 'banter with the lads'! Some of the TV programmes representing model railways might make us all cringe a bit sometimes but maybe things like this, plus various YouTube and other social media channels might be the catalyst for gradual change that makes the hobby a bit more 'accessible' to a wider audience? In my line of work sometimes it feels like we spend more money on DE&I initiatives than we do on the actual projects but I think without these initiatives the rate of change of 'inclusivity' would be glacial! So I wouldn't be glum. The shows will keep happening and clubs will keep going but they might need to change a bit. Just keep inspiring those of us who aren't quite ready to get back into it yet with all the wonderful modelling, giving us something to aspire to!

Thanks for this reply Chris, really interesting how these things start out! I think it is safe to say that the original aims of the club and the whole ethos of the show has clearly been a resounding success! I wonder how many other shows came into existence or grew because those organisers thought "well if they can do that at the NEC I'm sure we can do x, y and z"?! It would be impossible to quantify the lasting legacy of Warley on the hobby as a whole and also on individuals who have visited over the years. Everyone involved should be very proud of what they have achieved!

I should first put my hands up and state that I have never been to Warley. I have been to some fairly large shows over the years and am generally of the opinion that for me, a smaller show where I can fully take in all the exhibits, is preferable. Also for me, the cost of travel, accommodation, parking and anything to do with the NEC, is just not worth it particularly when there are so many fantastic 'local' shows that for me are more accessible and offer a potentially much more relaxed 'viewer experience'! My initial response to this news could have been a copy and paste of my response to the similarly sad news of Hattons closing down, except replacing 'Hattons' with 'Warley'. It is a bit of a shock, seems like sad news, it is an institution in the hobby has sort of become the national show but all good things come to an end and there is no need to be glum about the 'state of the model railway hobby' in the UK when you think about all the other large and small shows alike that are put on all around the country most weekends of the year! Like Hattons closing, it is probably better for the Warley club that they end the show at the NEC site 'on their own terms'. If the club vote had resulted in a 2024 show that was badly organised or poorly supported then I am sure everyone will have been asking why they bothered.... after the event! Better that they go out on a high? I have often wondered how a model railway club from the other side of Birmingham ended up with the responsibility of putting on the biggest show in the UK at the NEC anyway?! It must be a huge undertaking and almost a full time job for the volunteers to organise, with the next years planning as soon as the current show has finished I'm guessing? I think the Warley MRC team should be congratulated for keeping it going for so long. They can have a well earned rest now, though it sounds like they will still have a show to run somewhere! I am a bit sad that I never made it there, but then I think about all the other superb shows I have visited and will continue to visit, and that makes me smile again ☺️

Personally, I think the days of annual announcements and a yearly catalogue are over, or at least numbered. I much prefer nice little surprises and announcements throughout the year. The likes of Bachmann, Accurascale, Rapido (maybe Heljan too?) have it about right these days. Even Hornby themselves make announcements throughout the year, as they have said will happen this year, so why not just go with that product release format? I know the Hornby catalogue is something of an institution but I can't remember the last time I bought one because the 'new' items might be years away and the existing items may no longer be in stock! Are they just bought by catalogue collectors now? In these current 'austere' times I am surprised they have made any new tool announcements really, so that they have is to be commended. I have just taken delivery of my 2MT, almost exactly four years to the day since I placed the pre-order! I also have several other pre-order items from more recent years, for which there are no revised dates in this announcement. So it is a year of catchup for me too! I didn't place any pre-orders last year and won't be pre-ordering this year either. There was one year recently when they announced a new tool model that they had managed to keep under wraps and it was actually released just a month or two later. This was great for 'instant gratification' but this rarely happens! It must be expensive for Hornby and I guess the retailers too, to 'tool up' for this announcement each year, updating websites, listing new items, dealing with pre-orders, preparing the catalogue (which must be like hitting a moving target!) etc etc. Surely it would be better just to 'spread the love' over 12 months? It is good that they are doing re-runs of excellent models like the Seacows, Sealions and Trouts but I think they should do more of this. There are loads of other superb 'back catalogue' items that I often wonder why they don't just churn out in limited numbers year in year out. I also wonder if someone in Hornby actually looks at second hand prices to monitor which models are most 'in demand'? I got out some of my Seacows and Sealions recently for a run. Some of them still had the retailer price tags stuck on the box end flap, albeit a discounted price at the time, £11.95 was the going rate! Thankfully I don't need any more now! When 'I were a lad' I would spend hours poring over the Hornby catalogue and ticking off and rating the items I wanted. Of course if I was lucky if I would get a couple of wagons, or a second hand loco, or use my Christmas and birthday money to buy a bargain in Beatties' January sale, but back then (early 80's) if you saw something in the catalogue you could be fairly sure of going out to your local toy or model shop and finding the item for sale, unless of course it was a 'new' item in which case you may have had to wait a few months. Maybe I am looking back with rose tinted glasses but I wonder how much of the modern day catalogue is actually in stock and available to buy anywhere?! It must seem an odd concept to someone new to the hobby to buy a catalogue containing many items that you just can't get hold of, unless second hand! Of course the news from Hattons yesterday was very sad and a shock, and today's announcement is a bit muted, but when you look at the huge range of manufacturers currently producing high quality models, I think we as model railway consumers have 'never had it so good'! Yes, pricing is a challenge but I just buy less, which is probably no bad thing! Things in the retail industry may yet get worse before they get better, but hopefully the well run companies will survive (and I am not suggesting Hattons was not well run) and the current glum outlook from some will be unfounded.

Very sad to hear this shock news. I feel for all staff involved, many of whom clearly loved their job based on the interactions I've had over the years. Some will be required to carry on until the 'end' and they will no doubt feel a much greater sense of loss than we do as customers. Having been in this situation myself they will have a strange few weeks/months ahead and may develop a renewed sense of solidarity with their colleagues but I hope all concerned manage to go on to do great things elsewhere if they so desire. I guess as others have said, all good things must come to an end but I always thought Hattons would be there 'for ever' .... longer than me anyway! Having said this, if my spending profile with Hattons over the years is typical of their customers, then this has dropped off significantly more recently. I haven't totted up my total model railway expenditure (I don't dare!) to see how that has changed overall and I haven't compared with other retailers I commonly use but I have downloaded my order history from my Hattons account, which only goes back to 2008 (so I'm a newbie compared to many commenters on here!) and will probably have ended with an order in the 2023 pre-Christmas sales. This profile resembles a bell curve with the peak 'spend' around the 2016/2017 time. Up to that point I had generally used my local model shop for most things and had only really gone to mail-order or online retailers for bulk/bargains or specific items I couldn't get locally. My local shop sadly closed for good at about this time so I became fully reliant on online retailers and Hattons suddenly got a big chunk of business from me for at least a couple of years. I also used to occasionally go to the Smithdown Road shop when visiting family nearby, but I have never been to the new shop in Widnes. Since most of my purchasing went online, I also started to find and use 'smaller' online retailers who also had a traditional shop based business (aswell as larger ones like 'Rails') and customer service, prices, postage costs and quality of packaging that matched or more often than not bettered Hattons, so my spend with Hattons has just tailed off year on year since about 2017 and has been limited to their own excellent 'Originals' models and 'sales' bargains once again. My experience is very specific to me but I wonder if the competition to Hattons, of all sizes, have just all now come up to the high standards they set. During recent years I always assumed that Hattons were big enough to ride the Brexit/war/cost of living storms and my changing spending patterns would have no impact on a business of this size. Now I feel as if I have been part of the problem. I have been so busy supporting the little guys that the 'big guy' has gone out of business. However, this phenomenon seems to be happening across multiple retail industries at the moment. A sad day.

There was me thinking that Hornby were going to announce a re-tooled Class 50 or something!

The smell as you get off the train (or out of a car) in any town or city with a brewing industry. Edinburgh and Burton are two that immediately spring to my mind. Within a very short space of time (never sure how long) you acclimatise to it and no longer notice the smell, until you next leave and return to the place.....

What a photo C4355 is! I feel cold looking at it! The pylons rising ominously out of the mist, everything white except the three dirty locos in the foreground. Captivating!