Bloodnok

eBay. The specific listing I bought from is gone now, but this looks to be a similar design: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305386990507 I bought three and raided one for the extra shelves. There's a video on my channel how I modified the sides to take the extra shelves at a sensible pitch.

Several new block sections have been wired.

This one is fascinating, and definitely has legs :). The problem is everyone tries to look at the thing to make a distinction. But that's not where the distinction is. It's like the difference between a miniature railway and a narrow gauge railway. Let's say you have a railway with rails less than 750mm apart, which runs for more than 10 miles, and has multiple stations in different towns or villages. It uses historic steam locos to haul mostly tourists. While it is possible to travel between different towns using the railway and a few people do that, the vast majority of visitors treat the line as a destination, and will return to their starting location before leaving the railway. That description can describe both miniature railways and narrow gauge railways. The difference is not in what they do, but in how they are designed. The RH&DR fits the above description, as does the WHR -- but one is clearly a miniature railway, and the other is clearly a narrow gauge railway. The difference is the RH&DR was intentionally designed to look like a small scale version of a bigger railway, whereas the WHR was not. So where is the line between a trainset and a model railway? The key comes from the word 'model'. It's a very similar distinction to the miniature railway vs narrow gauge railway example above. It's not in the mechanics of what is going on, but in the intentions of the person or people creating it. If the design is attempting to represent a scene on a larger railway in miniature, then it's a model railway. If there is no consideration of representing a scene on a larger railway, then it's a train set. The distinction between a scenery diorama and a model railway has also been raised. You can make a scenery diorama that includes a railway. If the inclusion of railway elements is not the primary focus of the scene, then it's a scenery diorama. Even if the railway works. However, when the railway is the primary focus and the purpose behind building the scene, that's when it becomes a model railway.

"That's loads of storage. It'll be ages before that's full." Ummm. Ran out of space. Removed all the DMUs. I'm down to just five open spots and there's four more locos to put in yet -- and that's just the ones that are chipped and in the layout roster.

Your previous post initially appeared high up on Page 328 when I first saw it. Next time I got a notification for this thread and looked at it, the latest page was not 328, but 327. For some time this afternoon, page 327 appeared as the latest, featuring all the people I remember replying to, and the people quoting me. But ... only the first two of my posts today, none after that. Given it was only my posts that were gone, and I had just attracted mod attention, I think my interpretation that I'd been moderated was a reasonable one? If you are telling me that's not the case, then ... perhaps instead it was a software bug in the forum which caused only my posts to not appear when I was looking at this thread?

A lot of my posts were deleted. I originally wrote that message believing them to be still gone. Most of them have since been ... undeleted, so what I wrote was not correct. Upon noticing the error, I edited it to reflect the current state. Class 37: Works: White marker lights on F0f and F0r Red tail lights on AUX1/FO1 and AUX2/FO2 (full power) Dashboard lights on AUX3/FO3 and AUX4/FO4 (logic level) No function higher than that works. For the avoidance of doubt, I am aware not all functions are present on every model -- a lot of the listed functions in the next batch are only relevant to those with later modified 'group standard' lighting. But AFAIK the AUX numbering is universal. Class 92: Works: Day headlights (Lower two lights only) on F0f and F0r Night headlights (Lower two lights only) on AUX1/FO1 and AUX1/FO1+AUX6/FO6 Tail lights on AUX2/FO2 and AUX2/FO2+AUX6/FO6 Front Pantograph servo on AUX11/FO8 Rear Pantograph servo on AUX12/FO7 Does not work: Top headlight (AUX3/FO3) Depot Lights (AUX4/FO4) Cab interior lights (AUX5/FO5) I see no obvious change from AUX7(FO9) or AUX10(FO10) either. The one that bugs me the most is "Top Headlight" on the Class 92, as I can see that LED working when the DC blanking plug is installed.

Note that not all Zimo are the same name per pin -- that table is for an MN340, which would also apply to MS series decoders. Earlier MX series decoders may have different names for the pins.

I did say that. It was gone a while, but is now back (check the previous page). For the record, I have been contacting support regarding both a class 37 and a class 92 on and off since November. Many functions on both do not work on either loco. I've tried multiple Zimo chips -- both MX634s and MN340s. Support are asking the correct questions for basic troubleshooting ("can you try it on DC please with the DC plug in", "Can you send me a photo of the switches", "can you try your decoder in another model" and so on). They have come to the conclusion that the locos I have are not faulty, and are working as intended. I agree with them in that based on what they say, I don't think swapping the loco with a different one would improve matters. The decoders are also working properly and have been tested in other models. Support have not been able to offer any suggestions to make more things work than currently do, nor any explanation as to why some features don't work.

Pinout comparison between an MN340 and an ESU chip: MN340 can do anything the ESU can do ... it just calls a few of the pins different numbers.

That's why I'd prefer to refer to the actual socket pin, not the AUX function number -- a number of manufacturers use different assignments of number to pin. But if Accurascale want to use the ESU naming, that's fine too. I can go get ESU's documentation (which I did), so I can find out that their AUX11 is on pin 6, which is my decoder's FO8, and I can adapt my setup accordingly. That's all fine. Yeah, had that with my 92 -- Support seem to accept that the centre top light (which works fine on DC) just ... won't work if you don't buy their pre-configured decoder. Sorry, that's not acceptable.

If the question could be answered, and then we'd all be able to go away and play with our trains, and not talk on forums about how we can't get them to work as they should. Sadly, it's an unfortunate fact (that I wish were not true) of the modern world, that if you want a problem fixed, you have to air it somewhere it can impact future sales. Discussing it where it is easy to ignore just means it will be ignored.

That's still an ESU though, right? Given I can't make ESU work properly with the control system I'm using, which depends on ABC braking, "buy a pre-configured ESU" isn't something that helps. That's why I'd much rather someone who knows answer the question than it have to be me that answers it for everyone else that needs an answer. Is this the right place? The people manning the support email know less about the loco than the Accurascale representatives in this thread, and are a lot less active than the Accurascale representatives in this thread, too. And am I in the minority? Almost certainly. That doesn't make me not a customer though, and doesn't solve the problem.

Also depends what they mean by "Core" and "Extended". All white lights on the front of the train and red lights on the back are "Core" to me. I can live without things like engine room lights, they are a "nice to have" and not a key feature. I wouldn't miss it if it had never been fitted. But the correct light pattern being displayed on the front of a train is now an expected feature, IMHO. Not having the roof level light (where fitted) as a "core" feature moves Accurascale locos into the category of "needs a rewire because the manufacturer couldn't do it right" -- right alongside mostly 8 pin socket models from 20 years ago when lighting was new and things like "switching off the tail lights when hauling a train" was something that required homebrewing your own installation. I mean, fine if that's the level Accurascale aspire to, but I was expecting a little better from a new model. I'm well aware that anything on the decoder configuration side is my responsibility -- I know that when I'm bringing my own decoder to the table. All I need is a series of statements of the form "AUX 5 (pin 17), logic-level, <light>|<lighting configuration>|<feature>" ... And an explanation as to what the hell is going on with AUX8, AUX9, AUX13 and AUX14.

Read the ESU documentation carefully. The AUX pins on an ESU chip are F0f, F0r, AUX1, AUX2, AUX3, AUX4, AUX5, AUX6, AUX7, AUX10, AUX11 and AUX12. They skip AUX8 and AUX9. These are the functions I would expect to be able to get at with a non-ESU, 10 function decoder. However, if you want to connect to an extender, some of those are going to be used to connect the extender. The standard says AUX11 and AUX12 are available as logic level outputs, as servo outputs (Accurascale use these to drive servos on the Class 92) or as a SuSI connection (something that was designed back when making one decoder do both motor control and sound output was beyond capability, so it had to be two decoders that communicated with each other). SuSI has very little use now that decoders that can do both exist. However, it is theoretically possible to use a SuSI connection to drive additional functions (AUX A to AUX P) instead of it's original intention to drive sounds. Note that ESU document these as letters, not numbers, to make sure there is no confusion between the two. If there's a comms protocol going on (whether SuSI or something else) I'd bet it uses these two pins. So that brings our "core" set down to F0f, F0r, AUX1, AUX2, AUX3, AUX4, AUX5, AUX6, AUX7, AUX10. SuSI is not limited to ESU, and can be done by many other decoders. If it was done by SuSI functions, you'd think that googling "Accurascale 37 SuSI" would have some hits somewhere on the internet ... but there's nothing useful there so I can't see it being that.

Please define "Core Function". Which lights are considered "Core" and which ones aren't?

No, I'm not. And this has been mentioned before, both here in this thread, and to support when I've been talking to them. Until ESU can fix their ABC behaviour (yes, confirmed still a problem on factory sound Accurascale locos, because we've got one at the club and it can't stop in the right place to save it's life), I won't be using any ESU decoders. Please explain what that *means*. When asked, Accurascale support seemed to think it was something to do with logic level functions rather than full power functions -- but I'm aware of that distinction, hence I sourced 10 function decoders in a 4+6 configuration to match what ESU decoders do. So ... where does that leave anyone with quality, non-ESU decoder? I understand that someone digging up an ancient decoder with only a few functions can't expect good results from a loco with lots of functions, but I've got decent decoders here which can drive every function pin that the ESU can, in the same power / logic level configuration, and no-one is either able or willing to explain why it doesn't work.

No, there isn't. There's a single table with an AUX to function mapping (which you should be commended for, as many manufacturers just expect you to figure even that out), but which includes AUX numbers that DO NOT EXIST IN THE 21 PIN INTERFACE. ... This I also have. That's why I know that AUX8, AUX9, AUX13 and AUX14, all of which are documented in the 37 manual as doing something, are not pins in the 21 pin interface. See my previous post in this thread where I posted the screenshots. I've been talking to support since November, and so far made zero progress towards getting the missing functions working. Which only helps if you bought the Factory LokSound equipped version (and are happy to retain ESUs decoder). Given I don't value sound and really don't like other aspects of ESU's decoder behaviour, responses of the form "You should have bought the sound fitted one" don't help me. Four decoders. Two months with open support tickets. Still my 37 doesn't recognise AUX outputs from 5 and up, and my 92 doesn't recognise AUX3, 4, 5, 7 and 10 (but ... AUX 6, 11 and 12 do work). Yes the decoders have enough functions, and yes they are working.

That is ... fascinating. Given that AUX13 is not a pin on a 21 pin decoder (neither is AUX14), what does having AUX13 defined in the list change in terms of how a 21 pin ESU decoder addresses functions? I'm getting concerned with the lack of information on this loco. I really don't want to have to take the loco apart, pull the PCB out and reverse engineer it ... purely to find out how to actually make it work properly.

... And the second one is now installed. Both modified to have six shelves (they come with four by default, and not at a "model railway" friendly pitch). Now I just need to put a few more trains in them that are currently on the layout...

Budget off-layout covered storage underway. Another one (further up the wall this time) to be built and installed tomorrow.

Given that AUX9 is on a pad on the far end of the decoder, I can't see how it's doing anything one way or another, unless people are attaching a wire to it and connecting it to the loco somehow?

I'd love to know how they've done it in this case. Accurascale's 92 has a function to indicate which way the loco is headed, and other functions will swap ends on this function. However, the 37 isn't done like this. I don't know what they have done for this, or how to make it work from scratch.

I've just had a reply from Simon too -- he's told me the switches are for switching between logic level outputs (when in the "ESU" pattern) and full power outputs (when in the "Non-ESU" pattern). That would imply that using the switches in ESU mode with a logic-level output decoder like my Zimo MN340C would work. However ... that's not the case. The current logic level outputs (FO3/AUX3 and FO4/AUX4) successfully drive the dashboard lights on the 37, with the switches in "Non-ESU" mode. And if I set the full "ESU pattern" on the switches, I get no lights at all. Not even the basic four which are full power on all decoders -- the headcode panel lights on F0f and F0r, and the tail lights on AUX1 and AUX2. Those are full power even on ESU decoders.

This is the card included with my 37: This is the ESU decoder documentation for a LokPilot 5: Front and rear lights, plus AUX1, AUX2, AUX3 and AUX4 all work as documented. There is no response in the loco to any pins from AUX5 upwards. You will note that AUX 8, which is listed as "Night Rear", is not on the 21 pin connector. ESU skipped 8 and 9 for some reason. It is only available as a full power connector on a pad on the other end of the decoder. I can't see how this would attach to the locomotive -- I believe the only spare socket in the model is for a large speaker (not fitted to my example as it was a "DCC Ready" model). AUX 9 is only available as a logic level pad on the other end of the decoder. Ditto. Driving AUX10 as a logic level output (which I can do with the MN340C) does *not* illuminate the rear cab light. There's no reference to AUX13 or AUX14 at all in the ESU documentation. When you say "There are onboard integrated circuits which are used to communicate with the LokSound / Pilot chip to achieve the extent of functionality needed", what do you mean exactly? This loco (37001) has no response to anything above AUX5, yet there are three documented functions I can't get at with a 10 function decoder, despite having 6 unused output pins available on the decoder. I appreciate this specific prototype does not have some of the features the PCB has been designed to do (e.g. top cab light) and that the PCB has been designed for all models universally, but I'm not sure if the advertised feature of cab and engine room lighting just isn't ever going to work, or whether I have a faulty loco, or what. Oh, and I first sent Accurascale Support an email about this towards the end of November. No better advice yet. I'm also slightly concerned that someone I spoke to couldn't understand me until I sent a screenshot of my email to him -- your support system seems to be breaking email formatting in some circumstances.