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Ravenser last won the day on January 5 2011

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  1. And then we can have a thread full of complaints that they are inaccurate for the GC's Barnum & Bailey train ......
  2. Some comments from an intermittant teenage train-recorder.... I knew them on Transpennine South trains from Grimsby to Manchester as 31/4s , initially 4 car later 5 car and IM locos. Once they got a chance to shift they looked like mainline locos . But sustained gradients from a start were a bit of a struggle - out of Sheffield they would struggle down to 50mph before reaching the summit on the Hope Valley and in the other direction it was a long battle for speed under full power from the Hazel Grove chord up towards Chinley. The repeated start/stop between Doncaster and Sheffield was clearly demanding especially with 5 on I also remember 31 242 with a late Skegness - Cambridge Saturday train (8 or 9 Mk1s) running down Stoke bank at just on 90mph - which is about as fast as was comfortable in the Mk1s behind... The general impression was that IM looked after their 31s and got decent reliability, whereas MR locos on the Birmingham/Norwich trains (5 car) had a reputation for regular failure , and a habit of going up in flames
  3. A very useful link there as my 2 coach LNW set is supposed to be ex M&GN and is painted brown. Justifying one in the E Midlands seemed a stretch but the layout is supposed to have trains to Birmingham. Its a little disconcerting when a comment on your blog is being quoted as a source - I assume the reference to "another source in RM website" is in fact Bill Bedford's comment on that blog posting So why do folk happily build the M R clerestory kits but not those for the more numerous LNW vehicles, which lasted a little longer?
  4. And yet the Ratio LNWR coach kits don't seem to get built , while the MR kits do (I have a pair of Ratio LNWR coaches in traffic). I don't quite understand why
  5. It's good to see someone's vintage scratchbuild being finished and being given life and purpose
  6. I have heard it said that there was a marked LNW influence on the NSWGR . On the other hand they also had a very close relationship with Beyer-Peacock over many decades (right down to the end and the AD60 Garretts) I would respectfully point out that those SDS coaches are for stock which survived in revenue service well into the 1950s . That's not "early" in the way were are using it here - we are talking about vehicles from the 1870s-early 1890s which survived into the first half of the 1930s. ie a generation earlier SDS can sell to post-war modellers : these Hattons coaches can't - except as service stock
  7. Point taken, but GN teak 6 wheelers and "something simple" don't go together . We established pretty quickly in the thread that the Hattons coaches weren't going to be convincing for the LNWR and GNR modeller (and there aren't an awful lot of the latter... Bill Bedford did some of the later Howlden bogie stock from the late 1890s as straightforward kits - but they were very short-run resin kits and not cheap. The market doesn't look like it's there ) These Hattons coaches are aimed at those who have bought recent RTR pre-grouping locos released in SECR , LBSCR , and GC livery , not to mention the various MR, GE and NE locos which are/will be available. There are quite a few locos available for each company , and that's clearly what Hattons are aiming at. The frustration arises from Terry's insistence that accurate RTR coaches for the Single must be the key focus for Hattons, and disregard every other company - when everyone this end had already concluded this project wasn't really going to suit the LNWR and GN
  8. Mk1s appeared in the Transpennine sets at the same timetable that 114s replaced 31` + 4 on the Cleethorpes /Newark. Exactly how the shuffle worked I can't comment , but those 2 changes were simultaneous (I was there at the time)
  9. At that point Cleethorpes - Lincoln-Newark went back from 31 + 4 Mk1s to 114s , providing the Mk1 vehicles for Transpennine South...
  10. I think it is good to use this thread to give these kits a plug , for those who feel that the Hattons generics will not do as a representation of GNR coaches (a perfectly reasonable opinion) . They are straightforward kits , from someone with an excellent pedigree in the "cottage-industry" trade for 4mm LNER . There is extensive documentation for how to build them in Mike Trice's thread, linked earlier - far better than most kit instructions . And he has done a detailed thread on his "recipe" for teak finish This is an initiative that deserves to prosper - and as purchase is through Shapeways , a boom in sales isn't going to swamp Mike Trice personally . Shapeways are set up to cope To be honest , this is a much more constructive approach to the issue of coaches to match the GN Single than simply shouting at Hattons to serve the owners of Stirling Singles and forget about everyone else. A set of 3 coaches will cost only slightly more than a Single.... and be only a little more demanding to build than the Ratio kits everyone has been building for years
  11. Terry: I'm afraid you will need to accept that the GNR in the Stirling era is not a major sub-niche within "pre-grouping" . I say that as someone who grew up in ex GN territory away from the ECML, and who has a sneaking suspicion that in the 1880s the GN may have been the world's best railway. Most people modelling ex GN lines are in fact modelling the ECML, and the Singles had basically gone from the ECML by 1900. 6 wheel coaches were being cascaded out of ECML after 1898. The Edwardian GNR is a world of Ivatt Atlantics and early Gresley coaches, at least on the ECML - and in matters GN the ECML has always overshadowed everything else . The remaining singles were exiled to the East Lincolnshire line after 1900 (and if you want to model the E Lincs line before WW1 I commend Alford and Firsby to you as prototypes...) In 1922 the GN represented about 5% of the total network. A GN 6 wheeler therefore leaves the bulk of the market unserved. On the GN , 4 wheelers were strictly suburban stock We have agreed that the Hatton's coaches are not suitable for the LNWR and GNR . They will serve as good or reasonable representations for the LBSCR, MR, GCR (ex MSLR), NER, and arguably as representations for the GWR, GE and SECR, All of those have several locos available RTR in OO, and are much more realistic propositions for layouts than the GN . Some already have some support for stock from plastic kits Thanks to LRM and Ratio, the LNWR is well supported with carriage kits . The GN before Gresley isn't. I would suggest likely "follow ons" from this project are someone doing a resin or 3D body for an SECR 6 wheel birdcage full brake, - and some GN 6 wheelers, either as replacement bodies or a small expensive RTR range . The first will be a much easier safer proposition commercially than the second..... The Locomotion Stirling Single is not really the bulls-eye this project needs to hit , even though you own one.
  12. The reason that the manufacturers haven't "got" this is that RTR in OO has become so comprehensive in the last 20 years that in practice very few subjects post 1923 are now off-limits The pre-grouping railway with the best coverage in terms of locos is the SECR . Accurate coaches are available - but the Birdcage stock from Bachmann represents post WW1 main line stock and isn't suitable for an Edwardian branchline . Bachmann chose the prototype because they were very much used on rural lines in the 1950s. IE it's a model aimed at the post war /interwar modeller, with a special run in SECR livery The next best served in terms of locos is the LB&SCR, followed by the GC The generics are pretty close to Stroudley and Billinton coaches of the LB&SCR. They will pass for GC (ex MSLR ) 6 wheelers, or some MR 6 wheelers. They are being made available in SECR livery I do expect a modest upsurge in Edwardian branchlines in Kent and Sussex, or Edwardian South London suburban
  13. The point that is being missed here is that pre-grouping is less than 10% of the British hobby. Perhaps as little as 5% . And that fraction is fragmented between almost 30 companies. Each of the 2 largest companies (LNWR and GWR) represented no more than 10% of the pre-grouping system. 5-10% of 5-10% is about 0.5%- 1% of the total 4mm market , subject to rounding So a company- specific range would be targetting a very small sub niche indeed. It wouldn't even have the niche to itself , necessarily - the Ratio range already includes easily built models for bogie coaches from the LNWR and MR and 4 wheelers from the GW . That covers the 3 biggest pre-grouping companies. With an extensive range of etched brass LNWR kits available as well, you can see why this project needs to be generic and close to stock from 6-8 medium-sized companies
  14. Unbranded varnished wood could be useful for light railways and others. Otherwise I'd avoid generic liveries
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