Ravenser

The wheel and track standards are considerably better than N . Firstly , if you use the same code rail in a scale 25% larger, the effect is finer. Ditto the same flange/tread dimensions... Secondly - for the first time ever we have a scale launched with a coherent consistant wheel/track standard. A wheel /track interface that actually works properly. N gauge is a horrible mess in that respect: I can't find much commonality in wheel standards between different items from the same manufacturer, never mind different manufacturers. Consequently N gauge bumps and lurches all over the shop. TT:120, with a coherent wheel/track standard should run smoothly We've just had SIX new locomotives for this scale confirmed as moving forward for production , 6 months ahead of the date when I timidly suggested Hornby might announce a couple of new items. And you are arguing that nothing is happening? The page upon page of frothing and politics we'd have had if anyone had announced a new Class 37 in any other scale.... But it's TT:120 , so there's not even a new thread about the announcements

If the Sheringham branch is running , its a short walk between the two stations at Wroxham

Duchesses are being advertised for sale, as are 66s, by Hornby, Gaugemaster, Kernow etc. So I'm expecvting the Duchesses and HSTs before Christmas. I am working on the assumption that the J94, 57xx and 9F are likely to be announced as part of the 2024 range announcement. How much they announce is going forward for production will no doubt depend on how well the Duchesses HST and other TT:120 items sell in the next 6 months. If they do well , then the Castle may join the party, and I think if they do the Castle they have to go for the Collett coaches promised alongside it. A more cautious programme would be 9F, Mk1 SK and two or three more wagons. But the whole of Phase 1 + 2 was announced with R numbers and almost entirely made available for pre-order late last year. Given that it's all been selling strongly I doubt Hornby will wait until the latter part of 2024 or later (a 2 year gap!) to announce a few more items are going forward into production. Q1 2024 deliveries might slip to Q2 2024. But I really think Hornby will announce something extra for TT120 around the New Year

Early this year we were told that two 0-6-0s were then going out for tooling as well as the Class 66 So I'm assuming that they will appear at the same time as the 66 - which I would expect to be Q1 2024 I'm assuming that there will be a "traditional" 2024 range announcement for OO based on stuff already in the development pipeline , even if the new management decide to limit the development of new tooling for OO locos and coaches in future (on the basis that the items being tooled would pretty marginal prospects...) Therefore I assume there will be some "new " TT:120 announcements as part of the 2024 range . These would be confirmation things already listed in the brochure are going ahead into production. Revealing two 0-6-0s are going to be on sale in a few months would make sense as part of that. The 66 and the 57xx and J94 will be the first TT:120 models that Hornby have had to develop from the ground up. They had already done 1:120 Corgi diecasts of Peppercorn A1 , A3 and A4 which must be related to the TT project, so there will have been welll advanced on CAD for Gresley Pacifics. 08s Duchesses, and 50s have all been done in OOin recent times, so the reasearch and a starting point for CAD already exists. But 66, J94, and 57xx are not subjects where Hornby has developed anything before (66 is ex Lima, J94 ex Dapol, and the 1970s Pannier doesn't really count). So it's not surprising they are a little way down the programme

You may want to read this before going down that route: Dodgy Dapol Pannier

looks good, and othr people have been reporting it runs well , so hope yours does too. I notice that - for whatever reason - this is more or less the first seperate thread on here for any of the TT models. (I think there was one short thread related to one of the follow-on sets) That obviously makes finding info about a model easier than hunting through a 235 page general thread for relevant bits

Yes, but you need a 12mm gauge mechanism . Designing a RTR 20 in 1:120 isn't the issue here - it's "what can you stuff under a Lincoln Locos body to power it" I think you will struggle to find an existing 12mm gauge mechanism that you can get into a TT Class 20 bodyshell

ALD (a small outfit) have promised a low-volume RTR 25. But Baby Deltics and 22s also come into the frame. We are as likely to be talking about 1960s era layouts as 1970s-80s... Fitting the mechanism in the narrow body of a 20 will be the issue. Luke Stevens had some challenges shoe-horning a Continental TT mechanism into a Lincoln Locos 33: Lincoln Locos 33 and 35 in TT:120 It may therefore be that a 10' or 10'6" wheelbase mechanism would be more useful . Anyone who wants to stick a cabside yellow diagonal on their Duchess will be relying on Lenny Seeney for AL1-6 for the foreseable future

Code 80 is "necessary" because that is what Tillig TT track is. This Hornby track range has been designed to go head to head with Tillig on the Continent. They want to sell to people who have already started their layout using Tillig. Apparently the geometry is much the same, too Peco's code 55 range is making a different pitch : here is a track that is much finer than the Tillig you've been accustomed to.... The two track ranges are targetted at both Mittel Europa and the British market The large majority of OO modellers still use code 100 , because this newfangled code 75 is dangerously fine for their models. Actually code 75 is no finer than code 100 - indeed as Peco's latest round of tightening up as they retool seems to have started with some code 100 items , code 100 may be finer than code 75.... I'd love to think most OO modellers were now tilting towards code 75. But intermittant helping out on the DOGA stand at a few shows pre-pandemic taught me that most people use code 100, because they want to use that 1980s HST or Scotsman they found up in the loft last year... As a keen supporter of wheel and track standards for OO I wish it were not so.... but that's the reality on the ground And in N the dominant track is Peco Code 80 . So TT:120 starts out with two ranges that are 25% "finer" than N . (reciprocal of the scale difference - Code 55 in N is 5/4 of code 55 in TT) And if Peco not Hornby becomes the dominant track brand - as in every other scale/gauge - then TT track becomes significant better than N "Currently" is misleading here because this is all so new , and the range will develop quickly. Come back in Q1 next year and there will be a "package" of 66 + 08 + airbraked wagons that opens up freight operations of the last 25 years. With a J94/Austerity, 57xx and 21T MDOs , a South Wales colliery could be done - I trust with locos that actually run well enough to make shunting possible ( this piece will explain why you won't be doing that in N..... a loco that ran so poorly would be a cause celebre in OO and it would have no commercial future, But in N... "mind over matter, mind over matter / If you don'r mind, it doesn't matter...") Come to that , if the proposed 37 gets the green light next year, in 18 months the Stationmaster could attempt 1960s S Wales coal operations in TT120.... I think the TT:120 debate will drift in a holding pattern with the same tropes until Q1 next year when things shift significantly . If the 2024 New Year announcement includes a green light for the 9F as Phase 3 starts , then that's a companion for the Gresley Pacifics (ECML) the Duchess (WCML) and even S Wales express power ....🤪

I fear the negativity runs deeper. The thread on the initial announcement by Peco is here: Peco TT 120 thread And inside a week people were appearing in the thread to declare that the product really wasn't for the British market, it wouldn't work , etc etc. Although the opening pages of that thread are a lot more positive than anything generated by the subject since. TT:120 no doubt creates a large supply of additional sticks with which to beat Hornby, but the said sticks are fuel on fire that was already burning. My own view is that as it's happening and Hornby have jumped in boots and all, the hobby ought to make the very best use of it we can , and see what benefits we can get out of the whole thing. But overall reaction in the hobby (not just here) has been pretty negative , and quite a few people seem to want to close the whole thing down fast and hard. That was happening before Hornby broke cover

It's not in the brochure. And there were plenty of MR 0-6-0s and 0-6-0Ts that shared that basic chassis

There are practical reasons why I think its one of the more high-risk choices (and why I think Phase 2 will be a stiffer task to sell than Phase 1) Consider: Class 50 - 50 locos. Class 31 - 261 locos , Class 37 - 309 locos , Class 47 - 500+ locos. Class 08 - over 1000 locos Class 08 - introduced 1953, scores still in commercial service in 2023 (70 years and counting..) Class 31 - introduced 1957, two still in network service in 2020 (63 years and counting..) Class 37 - introduced 1961, a number still on the network in 2023 (62 years and counting..) Class 47 - introduced 1963 , quite a few still on the network in 2020 and I assume still today. (60 years and counting) Class 50 - introduced 1967, withdrawn 1994 (no more than 27 years) The 50s served on the northern part of the WCML - but they didn't arrive until after the Duchesses had gone (they just overlapped with 9Fs, which surely will be in the next tranche of models to go for tooling) Otherwise it ran on the WR from the mid 70s to the early 90s All the others ran alongside all the major classes of Pacifics. And also alongside IET and HST and 66s And because there were so many of them , they got around most of the network That is why I reckon the 50 is a higher risk choice (The Duchess is higher-risk than A3s and A4s , because Gresley Pacifics are mutually reinforcing. You buy an A3 , then you buy an A4 to go with it. Then, for an authentic fleet, you buy two more A3s and another A4... There were 201 LNER designed Pacifics - but only 38 LMS ones. 4-6-0s were the backbone of LMS express services but Hornby have only ever done a Black 5 and an unrebuilt Patriot -the latter, last century. The Duchess is more exposed until they get down to the Black 5 late in Phase 4 )

You are watching how TT:120 will develop as a scale ... 3D printing and laser-cut are extremely powerful techologies for producing highly detailed accurate stuff without tooling in very small numbers. And they are readily accessible and plenty of people can do them for you. A big bonus - they are readily rescaleable TT:120 has to be a constructional scale in its early years . Every new scale has to be, in its early stages. But 3D prints , lasercut and downloadable buildings are going to produce far better results , with much much easier construction , than the whitemetal kits other scales had to rely on in their formative years. And its not about "avoiding paying Hornby 20 quid", it's about getting all the things that Hornby unavoidably haven't made (yet) . Want a BR vent van (or an LMS or LNER one) ? VDA? Lincoln Locos have a huge range of 3D printed loco bodies/bogies/underframes in 3mm and Lenny Seeney is making them all available on request in TT:120. There was someone on a Facebook group with ten steam engines in TT:120 under construction from Lincoln Locos 3D printed range (It's worth pointing out that he hasn't managed to get the TT:120 logo onto a lot of pages where the model is actually available in 1:120 - the Britannia , Hymek and 33 are all known to be available in TT:120 but not marked... ) You are documenting the fact that people new to the hobby are already showing that (some of them) are willing to have a go at this

Those two posts pull in opposite directions.... Firstly , any new type 5 loco is immediately jumped on . Bachmann are doing the 69s, Revolution the 93s, Dapol did the 68s.. This is almost the only source of new subjects with meaningful sales potential . All of these have got to be a lot more promising than a Newton Chambers car carrier (And licencing excluides you facing duplication) The problem is multiple units. Bachmann can't be bothered reviving their well regarded Voyagers . Nobody feels like doing a 120. Hornby tweaked their 4-VEP, but otherwise its almost a decade since anyone did a new 4 car EMU in 4mm I think? Once you get into long high-speed EMUS it's even more difficult and Hornby are the only people with a serious track record in the field. The Stationmaster questions whether any of these models made commercial sense. I share the doubt about whether Simon Kohler was wise to give the dreamers of the DJM threads their heart's desire at the expense of Hornby's tooling budget by doing an APT. But I do have to take note that the demand seems to be there for them to have done a second run, even if coaches from the first run have ended up in the bargain bin, This is more than anyone would dare to do for the hapless Hornby D16/3 - a model for which nobody had a word of criticism when it came out (It's just that nobody actually wanted to buy one). Rapido seem to have got away with their APT-E as well. We obviously don't know the commercial results of these models. But Hornby aim them at the trainset market - they've had a " modern high speed train" set ijn the range for about 40 years. The Pendolino filled that slot for a number of years and has now been displaced by the IET. The Pendolino was explicitly not a "full-fat" model, although it was pretty respectable and vastly better than Dapol's short-lived botch. Hornby also did seperate coaches to allow you to build up a full length rake , and enough people wanted to do it for an extended debate about how far the motor bogie was up to the job (Someone I knew had a full length set , and we threw it around the abortive club project at speed a few times with my Voyager in the other direction, so I can confirm the motor bogie would do the job on the flat) . Given the sales in sets this one ought to have washed its face , and probably the same applies to the IET which ought to have a long life in the trainset market. The Eurostar was done after sales of the Joeuf HO one suggested there was a market , and Hornby did not do more than a single intermediate coach pack. You had to resort to etches from Hurst for that. It appeared in sets and train packs over some years in two liveries The APT certainly and possibly the Eurostar and maybe even the Pendolino may fall into a category along with things like Tornado, Duke of Gloucester and the W1 : exotic subjects done to Railroad standard to keep down the cost , which probasbly cover their costs but don't have much re-run potential and may not generate a big return . The IET , since it is in use on much of the network, is a better bet and it's not surprising Hornby have pencilled it in for TT:120 But the fact Hornby have kept a "modern high-speed trainset" in their set range for 40 years points to these things being a commercial success

However - for the last 9 months Hornby haven't really needed sales and support from the wider established hobby. They've sold everything they've made in very short order, largely to people who are new to the hobby. They don't actually need more folk to jump into the TT:120 product range at this point - they are struggling to to meet existing demand. And - disconcerting as it is to us long-standing committed modellers - when Hornby said at the start they weren't aiming this scale at existing modellers , they were targetting people not already in the hobby, they very clearly meant it. To a large extent they have delivered, too. Even though extreme scepticism was widely expressed in the hobby about whether TT:120 could ever attract any significant number of newbies There is also the awkward fact that for the last quarter of a century chucking rocks online at development pictures of new RTR diesel locomotives has been an important part of the hobby for quite a few in D+E.. Since membership of the club was free if you signed up in the first 3 months most existing modellers with a serious interest in the possibilities of the new scale will have signed up and will be able to see the pictures. If you aren't a member of the club it's very unlikely that you have any intention of buying a model of a Class 50 in 1:120 scale in the next 2 years. Why expose the model to the whole circus of sustained and systematic online abuse when basically none of those lining up to lay into it or otherwise comment would ever have bought one? (or indeed any TT:120 model). [I'm not implying that there's anything wrong with the model. Perfectly decent new 4mm models of diesels have had rocks chucked at them for decades. It's a recognised sport] Look at this another way - Bachmann have moved to a policy of only announcing new models when they are on the point of release. That cuts out the whole business of seeing EPs in glass cases, CAD renders, animated months-long debates online about whether they've got the X wrong... Bachmann seem to have come to the view that the whole thing was a liability rather than an asset, and they would be better off simply saying "Here you are . Brand new model . Buy it now", not making every new model run a years' long gauntlet of online abuse. Apparently this is working fine for them The real purpose of these development shots of the TT:120 Class 50 is rather different. They send the message , loud and clear , that the TT Class 50 is definitely for real and actual models will be available to buy in the near future. Given the scepticism about whether many of the models Hornby announced would ever see the light of day , that's necessary for Margate to do. The number of people who have wandered into this thread announcing that Hornby have got the range all wrong and they should have made an X ... - only for someone to point out that Hornby did in fact announce an X as part of Phase 2/3/4 in their original programme, isn't funny. It stems from the extreme negativity about the original announcement which led to most posters dismissing anything announced for Phases 3/4 as pure vaporware not to be taken seriously , and anything in Phase 2 as very much open to doubt as to whether it would actually be produced. People simply didn't bother reading the list of models announced. Phase 2 is happening, all of it , in the next 9 months: the question now is what we get from Phases 3+4 and when At some point, Hornby will need all the sales and all the potential market they can drum up for TT:120, from every source. And I happen to think the Class 50 is one of the riskier models in the range. But right now Hornby don't actually need the wider established hobby to shift the product, and in the short term the risks from exposing it to a very hostile environment probably outweigh any possible boost to sales. Afterall you can't sell more than 100% of production... It's a very disconcerting situation. So far Hornby have been able to sell ev erything they can make in 1:120 scale without bothering to market it to existing railway modellers at all.

Railway Modeller has arrived and it lists 5 retailers for TT-120: - Gaugemaster - Frizinghall - Bure Valley Models - Cheltenham Model Centre - Chester Model Centre Kernow are additional to that list, and confirmed. Peters Spares are to carry spares. Its interesting that a couple of smaller shops are willing to be TT:120 specialists This is all very like the way the "new entrants" operate : start with direct sales, then open the product out to a small number of retailers . It is "the Australian business model" (which evolved in part because there really aren't that many model shops in your average state. Sydney runs to about 3 - Bergs, Casula and Hobbyco) The new entrants have been seen as highly successful and I've not seen any suggestion that their limited subset of retailers, taking a modest proportion of total sales , is holding back their market penetration Hornby have accidentally copied another part of the "Australian model" , which is sales by direct pre-order and the model being made once the orders are in - because the stuff sells straight through on arrival and people are effectively pushed into pre-ordering what they want as there is very limited stock on the shelf. The distribution strategy also mirrors the way niche scales and products are usually marketed. DCC , in its first 20 years when it was dismissed and disregarded by the bulk of the hobby here, was sold through a small number of specialist retailers, often 1 per brand I have a feeling that getting Phase 2 sold out may require more heavy lifting than Phase 1 did - sales as individual items may take more work than selling the starter sets. Hence a good point at which to bring in a small number of retailers - many of them boxshifters with nationwide reach

I(t's rather difficult to prove that they've modelled an orc or a Paladin incorrectly

If the platforms had fouled the stock , then you would not have worn a groove in anything: the coach would have come off with a jolt and a bang. The normal rule is to check clearances using the longest vehicle you possess. DMUs may well be 57' underframe units (low-density DMUs normally were) . therefore if a Mk1 at 64' goes round you should be fine with a DMU Quite a few platforms in days gone by were below standard height, so it is arguable that you have simply modelled an example

Given that the Continental TT market under the Arnoldf brand will be a very important part of the total sales for the , it pretty well has to be compatible with Tillig, the dominant brand in Continental TT . Certainly I've heard that the geometry of Hornby's trackwork is closely based on Tillig . This means that people buying Arnold TT stock no longer have to go down the road to Tillig to get track to run it on...

I believe it was announced but never actually made?

Gaugemaster we knew about. Selling through the biggest box shifters , who will be prepared to carry the complete range and who have nationwide reach, makes sense. Rails refuse to do business with Hornby; if Hattons start selling TT:120 we can conclude that they and Margate have kissed and made up. But as their Genesis coaches are a head-on clash with a Hornby project, maybe not. Frizinghall doesn't really fit that mould - they would be doing TT:120 as a house speciality, a Unique Selling Point But I can't really see this being sold across the broad range of local model shops . I don't think it would work for anyone as a few boxes stuck in a back corner , ordered reluctantly after some arm-twisting by the rep. Which is all the "support" quite a few retailers would be willing to give it. So the average model shop won't be offered this , and the hostility to the new scale across a large segment of the retail trade won't be going away. I also think that quite a lot of shop proprietors would find it very difficult to eat their words at this point. There was very little support/enthusiasm from the retail trade for the product when it was announced, and that will only have been reinforced by the relentless drumbeat of negative reaction since Peco broke cover especially when it takes the form of a dogged insistance that the product has no future, cannot succeed commercially and will soon be dropped. (Even if this is only coming from 25-33% of modellers, it's the insistant response whenever TT:120 is mentioned) Gaugemaster stock Continental TT and they were onboard with somebody to explore a TT Class 66 even before Hornby went public. Kernow are the biggest all-brands box-shifter nowadays, and Gaugemaster can't be too far behind. It mirrors what Hornby have done in Germany, where they offered the range to the 4-5 biggest national box-shifters, all of whom no doubt already carry a lot of TT It will potentially promote the new scale to existing modellers. We'll have to see what the takeup turns out to be

Cue gratuitous picture of an 80 class...

I think we may be too optimistic about how well TT3 actually did.,,,, Pat Hammond's Triang book quotes some figures . In 1962 4300 TT3 sets were sold - as against 166,000 Triang sets in OO/HO (Hornby Dublo, Trix , Playcraft and Farish sets were on top of that , of course whereas no-one else made TT3). So TT3 sales were a little over 2% of Triang's OO/HO sales. TT3 sales halved between 1960 and 1962. That implies around 9000 TT3 sets sold . But as the early 60s saw a slump in sales of trainsets which helped to bring down Meccano Ltd, more OO/HO sets will have been sold in 1960 than in 1962. By 1964, when Triang pulled the plug, sales of TT3 were apparently less than 1/6th of 1960 levels (That's under 1500 sets sold) . That's not "fizzled out" , that's "fell off a cliff". Several thousand Britannias and Est Pacifics were still in the stores in 1966, and anecdotal evidence suggests there were still residual stocks of yellow boxes left in model shops in 1968-70 At best TT3 managed about 3%-4% of total OO sales , in its best year. By the time Triang pulled the plug you needed a microscope to find the market share. By way of contrast, when people gave up eagerly reporting carton markings on TT:120 sets earlier this year the reckoning was that about 7500 sets had been sold . With the digital sets expected shortly it seems reasonable to suggest TT:120 may sell more sets in its first year (say 10,000) than TT3 managed in its best year (about 9000). This in a market which everyone continually reminds us is a fraction of the size it was in the 1960s..... I get the strong impression that 3mm scale was picked up eagerly by the scale side of the hobby and developed quite rapidly, but that TT3 was an ignominious failure in the toy market. This time round , much of the scale side of the hobby seems determined that there should be no place in it for modelling to 1:120 scale, and is determined to shut the whole thing down as fast and hard as it can manage online. On the other hand sales to the wider market seem to be going quite well and new people are being drawn into the hobby There seem to be 3 possible scenarios: 1. After the initial rush , sales of TT:120 collapse in the way TT3 collapsed. After 4-5 years Hornby throw in the towel and stop making it because nobody wants the stuff. 2. Sales of TT:120 remain moderate but promising . But after 5-6 more years of slow bleeding at Margate Hornby Hobbies' position becomes critical , they collapse, and all production of Hornby model trains, Airfix and Scalextric comes to an abrupt halt. What happens then to the modest but commercially viable TT:120 market is up for debate . 3. Sales of TT:120 remain moderate but reasonably profitable. Hornby Hobbies continue to trade normally for another 10 years or more - not necessarily wildly profitable, but able to sustain itself without undue difficulty. TT:120 becomes Hornby's equivalent of Marklin's Z gauge: a niche scale which isn't going away. I'd say virtually all the discussion of TT:120 in the hobby has been focussed very heavily on scenario 1 - or even the more extreme version where nobody at all would buy it and the whole project would crash and burn in a tangle of wreckage at the end of the runway without ever getting airborne. Call it the British HO scenario (That one, at least, is now off the table) I really think we ought to spend a lot more time discussing scenarios 2 and 3. I share Dunsignalling's view that there's a ceiling on how far this new scale grows . In my view , if in the next 5 years it gets to half the current market share of N gauge it'll be doing well. But that's a bigger share of the market than OO9 has, and nobody thinks Bachmann's RTR OO9 range is inevitably going to fail However a totally new scale - the first new scale in half a century - really ought to be a positive exciting and hopeful development for the hobby , and we ought to be looking at the new opportunities it brings. I admit I'm rather dismayed , depressed and even a little shocked at the massive hostility, opposition and even anger that's greated the launch of a new scale - the grim relentless determination that "This will NOT happen" . Have we really reached the point that large blocks of people are willing to burn down an entire fledgling scale as a manoevre in hobby politics?

Hornby ihad no product in the British market to offer those for whom OO demands more space than they have got. Now they do. Bachmann already had N and have added OO9 . They have plenty to offer the space-challenged. Dapol have a substantial position in N as well. That said, after half a century N gauge has only achieved a moderate slice of the total market. For whatever reason, it has made only modest inroads on 4mm - indeed it seems that N has a smaller market share in Britain than in most other countries (even there N plays a distant second fiddle to HO) . N gauge models took a step change upward when Bachmann took over Farish, but that hasn't done more than produce a gradual and modest increase in N gauge activity Its pretty difficult to see why Hornby launching an N gauge range in a bid to become the number 3 player in N would have led to some great surge in the numbers modelling in N, or attract large numbers of new people into the hobby If N gauge was going to make some big breakthrough , it would have happened years ago. Bachmann obviously felt that RTR OO9 offered them some sales to the space challenged that they weren't going to get via N. No-one suggests that has cannibalised their N gauge Farish sales , or indeed their OO sales. In principle , Hornby might hope to get sales through a new alternative to N for the space challenged that they wouldn't get in N (If N is your answer, presumably you are already in N) In practice Hornby have sold quite a few TT:120 sets in short order. But those sales don't seem to have come vfrom established modellers very much. There is very little TT:120 activity on here now. At 3 very different recent shows (Ally Pally, Railex, DEMU Showcase) there was scarely a sign of the new scale. In contrast there are 6-8 new TT groups on Facebook, seemingly mainly populated by people new to the hobby. Hornby said they weren't marketing TT:120 at existing modellers and so far they haven't really. But despite the huge scepticism expressed when they said it, they have indeed m anaged to sell quite a bit of TT:120 to people new to the hobby. To my eye the people within the hobby who've taken an interest so far are mainly : - People involved in some kind of non-commercial gauge, especially 3mm scale, who are tempted by a RTR sideline - Overseas modellers tempted to have a dabble in British outline for the first time - A few people from N, mostly as a sideline Otherwise its newbies most of the way. At this point there is very little sign of established 4mm modellers moving into the new scale. So the fears of "cannibalising their OO sales" seem - at this point - to have little foundation. In any case the people I'd expect this to attract from 4mm are those who are armchair modellers unable actually to build a layout in the space they have . Turning armchair 4mm modellers into active layout buulding modellers in TT:120 ought to increase overall sales There are a lot of those people in the D+E sector . You really can't do much in terms of modern freight operations in 4mm at home . A Class 66 is 12" long, and almost all modern freight stock is bogie vehicles. The traditional answer was to join a club and get running rights on a club exhibition layout. But post-pandemic the opportunities for exhibition layouts look to have been significantly curtailed. If people haven't gone into N already in a serious way, a new smaller alternative to N might shake a few loose. Given that Hornby have sold whatever they have produced so far in TT:120,largely to the demographic they said they were targetting and which the established hobby said they had little chance of reaching, it's a little difficult to criticise their marketing or indeed their product choices too much. Maybe the sales won't be sustained . Maybe the Phase 2 models won't sell through as Phase 1 have done (I harbour slight doubts about the Duchess and Stanier coaches - the WCML doesn't have the enthusiast following that the ECML does). I really don't know if TT:120 will be a commercial scale with a range of British outline RTR in 10 years time. But the loudest and most confident voices in the hobby have been totally vehemently certain it has no future whatsoever. To the extent that debate inside the hobby has been very largely how why and how fast TT:120 will fail commercially, and any positive take on the scale has been very severely inhibited. Given that so far it seems to have done better than Hornby anticipated, maybe we need to seriously consider the idea that this scale has a long term future as some kind of commercial scale In some respects the most important news in this statement for the hobby as a whole is the evidence that TT:120 may have a future

That is very useful and informative. It does look as if a portion of the inventory issue has been diecast On clicking the link and having a look I discover the bundles aren't just diecast. a number include model railway items. The locos being cleared in this way are mostly LNER locos in LNER black - D16/3, J15, J27, Q6 - although Adams Radials and a Dean Goods, plus a GW King are also involved. LNER cattle and open wagons and an LMS non-corridor coach also feature Some of these are Oxford Rail items - others are medium sized black locos from a few years back, which are known to have ended up in the bargain bin. Selling them in bundles like this avoids issues with the retail trade. There is also the matter of the Oxford Rail Mk3s, which were a bit of a misfire, and where Hornby decided they couldn't sort out the issues by tweaking the tooling . I recall seeing a seperate Oxford stall at the back of the Hornby stand at Warley, selling off Oxford Rail returns at bargain prices. This is a direction in which we haven't been looking. (I recall when Oxford Rail was launched it was very much seen as showing Hornby how to do model railways)