pauliebanger

Yes, Pete, that's exactly how a loco can sit but still have lights and sound working. But surely, if one has a PowerCab, TTS comes back into play because they do work (steamers - after a fashion, diesels a lot better) on DCC. Iain, It's not the logic voltage that's important (to get sounds and lights the decoder must have already 'woken up') but the motor voltage which is somewhat higher, around 7v for a ZIMO. Another thing which is useful to know is that whilst it might need 3 V for lighting and 5v for sound to start, both will remain active at much lower volts when the DC control knob is turned down. The other thing you haven't considered is that on DC, locos not in operation must be on isolated sections (or fed from a different controller). The creeping of other locos you suggest will therefore not happen. Best regards, Paul

Lets clear the confusion. The day you asked for is here already. DC controllers can run DCC sound decoders, though there are some physical limitations. (lack of buttons) If you already have a DC controller, you will be able to run DCC decoder equipped sound models using that. You'll get far more sounds than many people will tell you, and you can, if you wish, have them standing still with lights and sound still operational. All the limitations that exist with DC operations remain*, most obvious is you can control only one model at a time, isolation sections will be required if you wish to have more than one loco on the layout and so on. But you are obviously happy with situation or you would have converted to DCC a long time ago. *If you use ZIMO sound decoders you can also add Stay Alive capacitors, not normally available with analogue control,so this would be a bonus. (In my opinion). Sound decoders which will operate on DC are not cheap, so I would suggest you try a model with DCC sound on your layout as it stands currently. If you find that sound fitted is to your liking, but you would prefer to have access to the other features DCC users take for granted, then by all means get yourself a DCC controller, but, preferably don't go for a cheap, low featured controller as you will soon find how frustrating it is to have DCC but can't read CVs, access function keys above 9, can't programme CVs or any of the other shortcomings these so called entry level controllers don't advertise before you buy them. Here's short video showing a DCC equipped model operating on DC analogue. What more do you need? You can ignore the Stay Alive part if you wish, just listen to the engine start up, idling whilst standing and engine shut down. Best regards, Paul

Ouch! That's potentially a lot worse than 'inconvenient'. Don't think I'll mention it again, don't want to lead anyone in the direction of a potential catastrophy. Thanks again for the insight. Best regards, Paul

Thanks Ron, Tech 6, that's the one I was thinking of I've never used one but someone on here gave them a glowing report. Interesting note about actual operation, not very convenient really, is it? Best regards, Paul

No, Keith, that's just not correct. It's perfectly possible to bring a DCC sound model which is operating on analogue to a stand whilst the sounds and lights remain active for as long as you wish. No external power is required, it's a normal feature of quality sound decoders. I've written about this before on RMweb and in Hornby Magazine. This is certainly true of ZIMO sound decoders and I'm pretty sure Loksound would be similar. Uniquely, (I believe), ZIMO sound decoders will also operate with Stay Alive capacitors when on DC, which can provide back-up power if your track is dirty or not prefectly laid. With a normal DC controller, you will get all the sounds except those which require the pressing of a button, for the simple reason that there are no such buttons to press on analogue controllers, normally. So you could expect to hear, randomly generated sounds like injectors and blowers for steam and compressors, exhausters, fans, rail clack plus other automatic sounds like brake squeal and wagon 'snatching' sounds. In addition to the main engine sounds, which will vary with road speed, the start-up sequences of diesel engines plus transitions through the power bands. Engine shut-down sounds can be played if the decoder is also equipped with a suitably sized Stay Alive capacitor. (ZIMO) There is a hybrid DC/DCC system available which, although of limited capability, is able to send messages over DC for things like sounding the horn or whistle blowing. Someone else will be able to identify this controller. Bear in mind that these DCC on DC solutions will still require a DC sound decoder, which the original post said is what he was trying to avoid due to the expense. There are a couple of sound solutions for DC users which does not use a DCC decoder and are therefore much less expensive. MyLocoSounds, here: http://www.mylocosound.com/ And UK based Train Tech http://www.train-tech.com/index.php/sound I mention them as DCC decoder-free solutions. I don't endorse either of them so the OP will need to undertake his own assessment of quality and suitability. Best regards, Paul

The question is straightforward, but the answer will, of necessity, be a little more involved. To simply diasable the Brake Key on any ZIMO decoder, make CV309 = 0. However, the momentum settings CV4 will probably be too high as it may have been set for sustained coasting. (that's why there's a separate brake control to slow or stop the model). You will, therefore, probably also need to lower the CV4 value to something more comfortable for controlling deceleration with the throttle alone. Best regards, Paul

If you prefer to have the DMBS leading when your controller shows 'forward', read the value in CV29. if it's an odd number, subtract 1 and re-enter, if its an even number, add 1 and re-enter. But, as you say, does it matter? if you fit a sound decoder, I agree with other recommendations that it will benefit from improved installation of the speakers (there's one in each powered car). Best regards, Paul

Everything works as specified. Any mismatch between the written instructions and what appears to be happening is due to misunderstanding of what they say. The instructions are correct, but could have been made more clear. The numbers refer to Function Outputs (Aux), not the numbers of the buttons on your DCC controller. YesTor It's all to do with the function mapping. I've offered to help setting up for ZIMO equipped models, Bachmann by ZIMO included. Your questions: 1. That is correct. No forward cab light, train manager's rear cab light only. 2. Day and night mode are switchable by function key on DCC (F key 14 in the sound fitted model). 3. F5 can be for whatever you map to it. In the sound fitted version it's to change the acceleration and deceleration rates making it react to throttle changes more rapidly and engine sounds operate differently to match. Best regards Paul

Charlie, I've no idea who designed the circuit boards. I imagine it was the resident designer or design team in Kader's China factory. If so, he or she probably has never been to the UK let alone have personal knowledge of the inner workings of vintage UK DMUs lighting. Their design for the circuit board, therefore, can only be informed by the specification handed down to them. If it performs what has been specified, it is, by definition, good design. Could more features have been specified? Yes they probably could. But then we come into the cost/value area, decisions on which as you will know from your own experience, only the manufacturer can make. Would you or I have specified a different arrangement for the lighting functions? I think that's very likely if we were targetting DCC only, where the high functionality of top quality decoders could shine. But not everyone will wish to pay for high end decoders, and it seems to me that the board is capable of providing much more functionality for DC analogue users than that to which they are accustomed. Perhaps Bachmann are looking at a wider picture? If things aren't exactly 'correct' in our view, for many others they will be happy that Bachmann are raising the bar on functionality for them in the way they operate their models. We're not so far apart as it may seem, Charlie, but there is a big difference between providing a specification and designing product to meet those specifcations. Kind regards, Paul

I couldn't agree more, that's why for ZIMO I have individual sound projects for Class 101, 105, 108, 109, 117 and 121 which use different sound recordings appropriate to each class. Each of them allows either fully automatic gear changing or manual gear changing on the same decoder, so any user can decide how they wish to operate their DMU gear changing from minute to minute without being tied to one method or the other. Best regards, Paul

Any decoder with enough function outputs is capable of that. PluX22 is irrelevant. It could have been specified to do this, yes. It's sad that is was not. But the circuit board achieves what was intended, what is stated in the instructions. The design of the circuit board, therefore, is correct. The issue is whether what was intended could have been improved if the designer had been given a different specification by whoever decided only the rear cab light should be illuminated. You can call it a design error as often as you wish, but that doesn't make it any truer than the first time you said it. It's clearly the case that you do not agree with the specification, the parameters which were given to the designer. If the design functions according to these, then there's no fault in the design. There's room to argue that the parameters, the specifications, which were laid out initially have turned out to be less than what could have been achieved. What are the other 'issues' and 'limitations' you have had to work around. Are you saying that the sound project you mention does not operate all the model's features as described in the instructions? What does not work? Best regards, Paul

Hi Chris, That's what happens when you post a question then not come back to see if you have had a response. LOL. I created the Class 15 sound project for Digitrains, so the basic sounds and operations will be the same, but the current version I have is much enhanced with additional features I've designed since. I'm glad you got fixed up. Best regards, Paul

There's no design error, the circuit board works as specified. i.e rear cab light is for train manager's use, can be on or off whether travelling or not. As Charlie says, this is controlled by the additional components on the PCB, no decoder can overcome this without changes to the PCB, so it's a specification decision that we probably have to live with. I would have liked to have the driver's cab light available and separately controlled too, but the specification prevents this, even though a decent decoder could have managed this quite easily on its own. But this is not the cause of aquilla's problem. The instructions give details of the Function Outputs which operate the described features. These are not the Key numbers on your handset (Function Keys) but numbers of the physical connections to the decoder. These are not necessarily the same number as the Function Outputs, so some of them are, coincidentally, the same and some are not. The instructions to which you refer could be clearer in this respect. To match the actual lighting features to the F keys you wish to operate them will, it seems, require some remapping. Not a problem to solve this if we know which decoder you have installed. If it's a Bachmann or ZIMO I can help, if it's some other brand, someone else will probably oblige. For DCC running, all dip switches should be left in the 'on' position (as delivered). The 'off' position is for turning lights off when on DC. Best regards, Paul

Dave, My project for ZIMO was recorded from Wimblebury, but I also have Whiston and some fab Stannier Hooter blasts from Foxfield Railway (coal mine end), courtesy of Nigel, (Avonside 1563) if you would prefer them to the normal whistle. Or, of course, I could put both whistle and Hooter on the same decoder and you can choose which AWD to use as it suits you. As you know, all my projects have long coasting and manual progressive brakes on F2. I've been expecting an email since I saw this the other day. LOL. Best regards, Paul

Since you prefer to use a ZIMO, here's one I prepared earlier (For Hornby Magazine Issue 153) This has my authentic J72 sound project recorded from the only existing real J72 and available only from Digitrains. This has a ZIMO MX659N18 (because that's what I had available at the time) but an MX658 will fit easily. The speaker is already included with the model and is fitted below the PCB, you can see it in the picture below. There are solder pads on the loco's PCB to which it's possible to connect a stay alive. The Kung Fu pictured will give up to about 8 seconds running and sound. This duration can be shortened with CV153.