TomJ

That's a really good idea for adding interest to a session. I'm planning for my Cornish Clay layout to run two periods: late 70s/ early 80s (25s and 37, vac braked wagons) and late 80s (clayhood/CDA changeover) with a bit of stuff in the middle as long as it fits. I don't mind using modellers license to bend things a little as long as it sounds plausible. So I might imagine a couple of 25s were kept on in the West for a few more years to work the minor routes. As long as you avoid anything daft like 25s on CDAs I think it can work. Another interesting train I've seen for North Devon is a 50 with only 2 or 3 coaches, apparantly not uncommon in the late 80s to cover for DMU shortages. Tom

Hi Rich. I don't know how much space you have (go N gauge you know it makes sense) but here's an idea I had daydreaming whilst up with poorly baby last night. The similarity with the West Highland has already been mentioned (shortish loco hauled passenger, varied freight, mixed trains etc) so to take it one step further imagine the line to Torrington - or even Ilfracombe - remained open to passengers maybe a station inspired by Barnstaple (with heavy compression) could be operated in a similar way to Fort William. Some passengers terminate there but others carry on through, or maybe even just portions of. I'm not sure North Devon can justify a sleeper service but perhaps newspaper/parcel vans or even buffet cars can be detached before the train carries on. As well as freight to Barnstaple there could be local trip workings to the yard to be reformed. The yard doesn't even need to be modelled, just a spur to the fiddle yard. Maybe a little far fetched but it seems just about possible in my head?

Whatever the precise definitions the trains are an awful lot more 'mixed' (and interesting) than today's sodding voyagers and sprinters! I think it's what can make the 80s so intereting to model, the mix of modern stock with surprising survivors from earlier running on what is in many cases a steam era infrastructure

I suspect that it is the maintaining miles of railway that's the problem. At the end of the day one Tiger a week is probably the same as two lorries, so not even a huge environmental or traffic benefit. I'm sure there would have to be some other traffic (freight or passenger) or increased volumes of clay to justify retention - all good for the modeller. As an aside the Carbis Wharf branch survived till 1988 with just one wagon a month, but that was just a mile long and again it was the need to replace worn out track that helped kill it off The more I read about the North Devon line the more it reminds me of a Southern version of some of the lines in the Scottish Highlands, and equally attractive to model

PS - quick minor hijack: Can anyone tell me what livery the exGWR Fruit D vans were in by the late 70s early 80s? Would it be bauxite or BR blue? I've got a couple of kits for my steam era project and a repainted one would make a nice change Many thanks, back to Rich's daydreaming

All this interest just goes to show we need a 'West Country Clay' forum!!!! Suspect it would lead to me doing even more daydreaming and less modelling

Pugsley - I'm sure the CDAs definitely left the Duchy going to Marsh Mills near Plymouth. There's a photo in 'An Illustrated History of West Country Clay Trains' of a train of CDAs crossing a viaduct in East Cornwall which is captioned as from Heathfield. Who am I to disagree with the great John Vaughan!

As Glorious NSE says you can get away with far fewer of the modern wagons, even as complete trains. I have loads of photos of trains of just two Tigers, one cargowagon, couple of vans etc whilst the shortest hoods seem to be about eight wagons (hauled by an 08 to Wenford). As a comparison a 37 could haul 22 hoods from Moorswater but only 8 CDAs which is a much shorter rake - even allowing for the slightly longer length of the wagons. So I think you can get away with the air braked wagons!

Hi Rich. I've never seen pics of CDAs at Heathfield but have seen trains of CDAs in Devon from Heathfield to Fowey. Not sure about the geology whether it was china or ball clay. One idea I've had (and feel free to borrow, I'll never get round to it) is Torrington on the mid 80s. Passengers terminate here with DMU or occassionally a 31/33 with a few coaches from further afield. Freight would be fertilizer (and milk depending on period) loaded there, you could always add some timber. Clay traffic in a variety of wagons continues to the works but maybe because of shunting/gradients etc trains are split at Torrington. Something to think about. Mind you I've got far too many ideas. Latest is Bodmin in the 80s with passengers continuing to Wadebridge or even Padstow and clay to Wenford

Good to see your musings (prevarications) again. I maybe wrong but I thought the clay Tigers could take a load of 80tons, which maybe why they were too heavy for the Meeth line. There were some clay hoods marked with a yellow stripe which were used for traffic to Fowey (after they stopped using Fremmington Quay) so these could be used up till 1987. Looking at pics of Heathfield (which is also ball clay) CDAs, Tigers and cargowagons have been used, an interesting variety. Although the line closed in 1982 the Meeth clayworks only closed a couple of years ago. I've heard it said that if the line had stayed open passenger traffic may have been reinstated to Bideford or even Torrington, an interesting idea for a 'what if' scenario. I like the variety of freight and loco hauled passenger traffic on the Tarka line but have decided I'll move it West (to the ex GWR) to somewhere similar to Barnstaple on the North Cornwall Coast. I think that's slightly more plausible than changing the whole geology and moving the china clay east!

I think its a really promising start, it already looks a lot better than some inlays I've seen. It's given me a few ideas to try. I've also found the cardboard inlay didn't work too good. Maybe if you paint it with some thickish paints they'll fill in some of the cracks? Hope you get some good inspiration on your visit. Will it be time to start on the trees next?

You did! I dismissed the ideas as I'm not sure I'm ready to model a prototype but the idea seemed to stick in my head and won't go away! I'll file it in the 'one day' drawer - unless you or Rich or someone gets there first. Main problem for me is its North rather than South Devon - the wrong shade of green and no chocolate/cream! I feel guilty enough abandoning my little steam engines - but leaving the mighty GWR would be a step too far. What I really aim to achieve is a West Country clay layout (either Devon or Cornwall) that looks like it may have been a real place and screams ex GWR without a train in sight!

Cheers Pete - I'll have a look in the art shop next time I'm in town. I agree card just seems so much nicer to work with. If I modelled 00 and had the patience of a saint I'd like to try the Pendon way of scribing card! In the meantime I'll stick to Slaters or stonepaper - I think in this scale the overall impression is much more important than the exact right size stone work etc. I think by the 80s most of the loading would be done by JCB, so that and a few heaps of clay are all I plan to model inside. I suspect the roof windows would be so grimey you wouldn't see much anyway so I think bright lighting and clean windows may spoil that slightly derelict look clayworks have. Look forward to seeing progress Tom ps I drifted into medicine which also pays a lot less than people think! I for one don't have a sports car or a Bentley!

I bet you'll be glad when you start the Wenford buildings - back to straight lines! Seriously it looks very good an instantly recognsable as Moorswater bi think the cladding will look good under the paintwork and actually looks better than a single big sheet May I quickly ask what sort of card you are using? I prefer it to plasticard but find it hard to source suitable stuff. The only half decent card I have found is very thick which makes door/windor depths look huge in 2mm. I guess one reason I love railway modelling is that I'm a frustrated architect at heart! It was always my more interesting career option but never worked out!

Since we don't yet have a dedicated clay forum(!) I hope Pete won't mind me replying here. I think everyone is right that as ball clay is wet simple tarpalins are fine and this is what was used on the uk runs ie the potteries. I think the clayhoods were used when clay was exported through Fowey and because of the way it was unloaded there the end tipper doors were needed. I guess the hood bit sort of came as a bonus. I think the wooden bodied wagons for uk runs ( not the hoods to Fowey) were withdrawn in 1982 when the Tigers arrived and one of the reasons for closure of the Meeth line was the cost of upgrading the line to take these much larger wagons. So I guess a mid 80s Torrington could see Tigers and clayhoods on the clay, with maybe some vans for bagged produce? Other freight could include fertilizer in vans. Passengers would mostly be a DMU shuttling to Barnstaple or maybe Exeter with a few 31 or 33 loco hauled passengers. Maybe a 50 would even make an appearance on summer Saturday through workings? Definitely got potential as a believable and interesting might have been. I think Rich and I may not be alone in wanting a 'layouts I dream of and may or maynot get round to starting one day' forum! And a West Country Clay one of course!

Well the Barnstaple line is getting popular! It's certainally a prototype I've been looking at in N gauge so Pete is you settle for 7mm version we may one day have layouts of North Devon in 2-7mm! At this rate we could have an exhibition of BR Blue West Country Clay Layouts which would be my dream day out but maybe just a little too niche? I think that the 9ft clayhoods were used for ball clay being exported from Fowey where the end tipper doors were needed. Until sometime in the 70s most of the export clay went from Fremmingham. The 25s were used until they moved away when the 33s and 31s took over with only the later allowed through to Meeth. I've read a suggestion that if Torrington had remained open for clay passengers may have restarted. Now that would be an interesting 80s layout!

I'm no expert on these things but I don't think class 20s were used. In John Vaughan's 'Illustrated history of west country china clay trains' he states that the first time class20s were seen in Cornwall was an enthusiasts special in 1986. Apparantly there were rumours in the early 80s that pairs of 20s would be used to reduce track wear from the 37s. Shame really as I think they'd look good! HTH

The view of the two bridges looks fantastic. It really captures some of the 'uniqueness' of Coombe Junction. It looks to me perfectly proportioned in relation to photos of the real thing - is the viaduct to scale height or have you reduced it at all? Somehow in 2mm I find that exact scale reproductions of things - especially scenic don't always 'look right' even if they are dimensionally correct. The view on yours looks awesome. I wonder how common it was for a train to cross the viaduct as one went under as this seems to be the case in almost every photo I've ever seen. Maybe the photographers set up camp on the platforms. Definitely do need some more trees however!! Is your 25 an old Farish product? I really would like one but is seems not be avaliable at present. I too have a lot of light engine workings to compensate for the lack of clay-hoods. I saw a photo of a train at Burngullow consisting of 50 hoods - I think building all those (and the hoods) would lead to a breakdown!

I agree that the inclusion of the junction will definitely be a big bonus! After all it is one of the unique features of the branch. In operational terms for those who don't know the prototype it will make a lot more sense to see a DMU come off one line, reverse and then head down the other line, otherwise it can look like an odd terminus in the middle of nowhere! I'm not sure whether this ever happend in the modern era but you could also have a DMU waiting at the signals from Looe whilst a freight runs down the line from Liskeard and straight onto Moorswater - similar (and odder) operating practices certainally occured in GWR times. Regarding cassettes I think the idea may well work. On my Trevone Junction I'm using a single cassette fed from a single line and it seems to work quite welll. I have built for cassettes which at home are stored on a shelf above the layout. I can't imagine I'll ever exhibit but if I did I'd just use a table or some flat surface behind the layout. This would seem to be much simpler than storing them under the layout. Its even allowed me to build slightly longer cassettes which will hold a 37 and 6 CDA's - they don't seem to mind overhanging the end of the baseboard a couple of inches. This has got me thinking of possible extensions - when I've barely started the first phase, glad I'm not the only one!

Go on, you know you want too! I think the run round will add much more operating interest that the actual junction. I also particularly like the images of large locos squeezing through the trees. I'm a little concerned how many Ikea shelves you have, will we see the complete run to Liskard one day! BTW can I ask how you join the Lack Shelves? Thinking about pinching your idea for a small layout. Do you run the electrics on top or underneath the board?

Very impressive, especially the curve. It really captures the feel of the prototype. I've gone for the easy option of modelling mine in low relief so only have to make the large dries buildings as on Wheal Elizabeth. One problem I've had is that photographing the front of the dries and the trains is obscure enough who on earth is going to film the rear ofvthe clay works! I'm not as far as you from Cornwall but Yorkshire is still to far to just pop down for missing info! I also think that the dries were just vast empty halls. I know that on the old coal fired dries the clay was shovelled over the floor to try whilst the hot air passes underneath and I imagine the modern ones are very similar. Also with the curve and the other buildings the angle of viewing will mean it's almost impossible to see in. Glad to hear you have your mojo back!

Loved the comment about the smelly and 'wierd' types sometimes found at exhibitions. I think all hobbies are the same but it definitely puts my wife off coming to shows with me!

Oh well. There goes my career as a detective! thought that was abut easy. Will have to keep looking for more clues! I'll let you know if I locate any more potential pics

Update! Through the wonders of Google I have discovered that ECC Quidhampton was a calcium carbonate (chalk) quarry in Whiltshire, the last trains appear to have run last year. I'm not sure how to post links but this website www.markfew.fotopic.net has some photos including ones with a blue shunter that looks suspiciously like Sharon. Look at the Wylye Valley & Salisbury collection. Hope this helps PS i agree that the 37 and CDAs look good. I try to have st least one set of correct stock avaliable for my new era (1986ish) but allow interlopers to run if I can stretch the history to make it seem plausible, hence my rake of CDAs occassionally pass waiting clayhoods!

IIRC Sharon was transferred away when ECC stopped drying at Moorswater. I think she was transfered to one of their other sites well away from Cornwall (Quidhampton rings a bell but no idea where or what that is). I presume the tractor was brought when the cement deliveries started which was a couple of years later. I quite like the look of the weathered Peco CDAs but the wife wouldn't let me buy them! She couldn't get the concept of why I'd pay more for the dirty wagons! I'm still trying to work up the courage to weather mine, scared if ruining the finish. When my parents moved house I was presented with a large box of old modelling stuff I'd left at home. Mostly not v good but some surprises and good memories looking forward to seeing a rake of CDAs creep out the works!