Hornby ex LSWR/SR Adams 0415 Radial

[darren01]

They weren't the Collett bow enders Graham !

No they where Mk3, i am sure of it. but very nice coaches.......oh and not forgetting the loco as well.

[BG John]

Too late, and they haven't announced an East Kent Railway livery version! I was starting to seriously think about a Colonel Stephens layout when the Oxford one was announced, but got seduced by the forthcoming Dapol Terrier into doing it in 7mm instead!

[Peter Bedding]

It would appear that we can look forward to as much carriage froth as loco froth. Perhaps a sympathetic Mod will start a new thread, although that rather begs the question of a suitable title......

 

Any way, on the theme of LSWR/ex-LSWR Non Corridor coaching stock suitable for branch-line use, I hope that my model pictures may be suitable.

 

The following respectively depict 58ft 20th century rebuild and its chosen 56ft 19th century running mate. In this case Set 20.

 

 

 

One of the detail differences has been reproduced. The rebuilt stock was mounted on wider underframes, requiring the use of triangular strips of timber at the bottom of the bodies to deflect rain from running into the gap between body and underframe.

 

Sets 42-46 built specifically for the Lyme Regis branch were of 58ft rebuild pairs.

 

There were numerous non-corridor 3-sets used for cross-country work. Some, but not all, included 58ft rebuild stock. So it will be interesting to see how Hornby might approach choosing a prototype 3-set to copy.

 

PB

Edited June 12, 2015 by Peter Bedding

[jjb1970]

I must admit that although the Adams radial is "in area" for my interests as a Southern type it is not a model I was that enthusiastic about (in fact I was rather bemused that at one point it looked like half of the world were planning to model it!) but as it takes shape it does look very nice.

 

The news that Hornby have more Southern coaches coming is fantastic, Hornby can make market leading coaches when they want to and their bounce back over the last 18 months or so gives me hope these will be very well done. I tend to agree with the argument that there is much more room for coach models than locomotives now, another consideration is that the costs of tooling coaches probably means there is much less chance of model shop commissioners competing in that sector.

[Oldddudders]

 another consideration is that the costs of tooling coaches probably means there is much less chance of model shop commissioners competing in that sector.

These people may disagree http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/117/LSWR_Gate_Stock

[jjb1970]

Yes, Kernow are very active with a bold program but it is notable that most of the commissioners are avoiding coaches and I believe Dave Jones has indicated that the costs and returns of doing coaches is not attractive for him (I may be wrong, apologies to Dave if it is wrong).

[Peter Bedding]

A decision to produce suitable coaching stock may well hinge on the opportunity for repetition work of the component detail.

 

In the case of ex-LSWR stock for cross-country and branch line work, there were a substantial number of 3/4-sets dating from the 19th century, for which all carriages shared a common design of 56ft underframe. Some were fitted for electrical generation, some weren't. They were originally built as 4-sets, but by the 1930s had been reduced to 3-sets. They could appear all over the Western Division, but would not be a natural choice for a 415 Tank. However they would be perfect for S15-hauled semi-fasts from Exeter and Weymouth. Now there's a thought!

 

The 58ft underframe for the non-corridor stock seems to have been identical with the underframe for the Restriction 4 corridor carriages (also known as 59ft stock, just as you might have thought you could follow this)

 

The video clip linked above is a bit ambiguous. The end brake composite does appear to have the rain deflector moulded at the bottom of the body side, typical of the 58ft rebuilds. So we could well be looking at a number of possibilities. Fruitless to guess, Graham will tell us just as soon as he can!

 

However, I would not rule out a new 2-set at this stage.

 

 

PB

[autocoach]

Coaches for the Kernow O2 on the Padstow Bodmin run? 

 

Well, probably close enough for me for the 1945-47 time period seeing as Northstar coaches go for astronomical prices when they show up on EBay. And the green on those samples looks a little lighter than previous Hornby attempts at coach malachite.

[ruggedpeak]

Nonsense .Its just in time for the" after christmas grannies  and aunties money" be spent .i was much richer after Christmas than before .Mind you it was in the 50's .

Agreed, no point releasing full price items for the pre-Xmas period as everyone's expecting Black Monday silly sales prices!

[chris45lsw]

A decision to produce suitable coaching stock may well hinge on the opportunity for repetition work of the component detail.

 

In the case of ex-LSWR stock for cross-country and branch line work, there were a substantial number of 3/4-sets dating from the 19th century, for which all carriages shared a common design of 56ft underframe. Some were fitted for electrical generation, some weren't. They were originally built as 4-sets, but by the 1930s had been reduced to 3-sets. They could appear all over the Western Division, but would not be a natural choice for a 415 Tank. However they would be perfect for S15-hauled semi-fasts from Exeter and Weymouth. Now there's a thought!

 

The 58ft underframe for the non-corridor stock seems to have been identical with the underframe for the Restriction 4 corridor carriages (also known as 59ft stock, just as you might have thought you could follow this)

 

The video clip linked above is a bit ambiguous. The end brake composite does appear to have the rain deflector moulded at the bottom of the body side, typical of the 58ft rebuilds. So we could well be looking at a number of possibilities. Fruitless to guess, Graham will tell us just as soon as he can!

 

However, I would not rule out a new 2-set at this stage.

 

 

PB

Having studied the clip several times I agree they are LSWR bodies rebuilt on SR 58ft underframes. Further, in my opinion, the leading coach is a diagram 99 BT; the middle one a diag. 31 TL and the rear one a diag. 418 BCL. The BT + BCL would make 2-LAV sets Nos. 42-46 which, inter alia, were synonymous with the Radials and the Lyme Regis branch from 1935 to 1958. The TLs were mainly loose and used as strengtheners. The sole survivor, 320, is on the Bluebell Railway and along with Maunsell diag. 2401 BCK 6575 (already in Hornby's range) were the first two carriages acquired by the Bluebell.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[trevor7598]

i agree with everyone who have surmised that the coaches behind the Adams Radial are SR rebuilds

of LSWR stock. The leading coach is one with a brand new van end grafted to the older body, mounted

on a standard SR underframe. the centre coach is almost certainly a lav. 3rd of the same type as 320

on the Bluebell Rly ( note water tank cover in the middle of the roof ). The last coach is less discernable,

but is clearly from the same family.

Hornby have played a blinder here, just look at all the loco's out there that hauled this type of stock.

Four liveries possible too. Sincere congratulations to Hornby.

[rockershovel]

I think it's a very handsome prototype. Good luck to Hornby, hope it sells

Edited June 13, 2015 by rockershovel

[bigherb]

I've lightened and sharpened the second and last coaches.

I think these may be test shots the plastic looks to shiny to be a 3D print.

 

The HA/71 looks to be coming along in the box.

 

 

[Peter Bedding]

i agree with everyone who have surmised that the coaches behind the Adams Radial are SR rebuilds

of LSWR stock. The leading coach is one with a brand new van end grafted to the older body, mounted

on a standard SR underframe. the centre coach is almost certainly a lav. 3rd of the same type as 320

on the Bluebell Rly ( note water tank cover in the middle of the roof ). The last coach is less discernable,

but is clearly from the same family.

Hornby have played a blinder here, just look at all the loco's out there that hauled this type of stock.

Four liveries possible too. Sincere congratulations to Hornby.

 

With many thanks to Chris and Trevor (above) for adding scholarship to this particular debate. Even allowing for a strong dose of wishful thinking - etc, etc, etc - I choose to believe that we are looking at a hitherto unreported new release of ex-LSWR prototypes. They are an inspired choice, and my guess is that the Annual Wishlist has played a very strong part. I also offer sincere congratulations to Hornby and look forward to an opportunity to acquire.

 

PB

[S.A.C Martin]

I've lightened and sharpened the second and last coaches.

I think these may be test shots the plastic looks to shiny to be a 3D print.

 

The HA/71 looks to be coming along in the box.

 

 

 

Looking at Robin Brasher's set above against these photographs, the surprises just keep rolling in from Hornby. I personally think the way they're engaging with and talking to people in the hobby and with the general public is better than it's ever been. It creates intrigue, answers questions directly and gives everyone a glimpse at the development of models as they progress. Frankly - given how critical I myself was a few years back with design clever - we all need to applaud them for turning it around. The newest models are absolutely excellent and the return to quality must be underlined and praised. Their interaction too is brilliant on social media.

 

The Radial Tank itself is also exquisite. I wonder how similar it is to a T3 - can you make a reasonable T3 from a Radial tank?

[Ronny]

Fantastic news!!! Bring it on Hornby.

[Dunsignalling]

I wonder how similar it is to a T3 - can you make a reasonable T3 from a Radial tank?

The T3 is a much bigger loco and the driving wheels are 6' 7" against the 5' 7" on the Radial.

 

John

Edited June 13, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[chris45lsw]

The T3 is a much bigger loco and the driving wheels are 6' 7" against the 5' 7" on the Radial.

 

John

Further to John's reply I'd agree that a T3 is a 'bridge too far'. The only reasonable candidate for conversion would be an Adams 380 ('Steamroller') class 4-4-0 which did have 5' 7" drivers.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

If you want to saw up a Radial, and mate it with a C class tender you would end up with this:

 

 

Pretty good for M&GN fans....

 

Personally, I'm beginning to think a model of Lyme Regis might be rather nice...

[trevor7598]

Further to my post this morning, i have studied the lightened images courtesy of Bigherb, and it does look

as though the first and last coaches in the Adams Radial train are identical. It is difficult to study them closely,

But both seem to have 8 compartments with a grafted on van end, with Maunsell style duckets.

IF i am right there may only be two types of SR rebuilds in production. Unless Hornby have a composite

up their sleeve, there won't be any first class. BUT HEY! this is an observation not a criticism.

Carry on with the good work Hornby !.

[stewartingram]

I've got a theory on this one appearing so quickly. They sub-contracted it to OxfordRail....

 

Stewart

Edited June 14, 2015 by stewartingram

[chris45lsw]

Further to my post this morning, i have studied the lightened images courtesy of Bigherb, and it does look

as though the first and last coaches in the Adams Radial train are identical. It is difficult to study them closely,

But both seem to have 8 compartments with a grafted on van end, with Maunsell style duckets.

IF i am right there may only be two types of SR rebuilds in production. Unless Hornby have a composite

up their sleeve, there won't be any first class. BUT HEY! this is an observation not a criticism.

Carry on with the good work Hornby !.

I'm sure the first and last aren't identical - the configuration of the roof vents are different for a start. Yes the front coach is definitely van + 8 compartments ie diagram 99 BT. While the sides of the rear coach aren't very clear even in Bigherb's enhancement, backed up by the evidence of the roof vents, it seems to be 2 compartments / lav / 2 compartments / lav / 2 compartments + van, ie this would suit a diag. 418 BCL.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Dunsignalling]

Further to my post this morning, i have studied the lightened images courtesy of Bigherb, and it does look

as though the first and last coaches in the Adams Radial train are identical. It is difficult to study them closely,

But both seem to have 8 compartments with a grafted on van end, with Maunsell style duckets.

IF i am right there may only be two types of SR rebuilds in production. Unless Hornby have a composite

up their sleeve, there won't be any first class. BUT HEY! this is an observation not a criticism.

Carry on with the good work Hornby !.

Given the succession of excellent releases of non-corridor stock from other companies over the past couple of years, I can't imagine Hornby would risk squandering the kudos they have gained by doing only half the job on these.

 

John

Edited June 14, 2015 by Dunsignalling

[Peter Bedding]

I'm sure the first and last aren't identical - the configuration of the roof vents are different for a start. Yes the front coach is definitely van + 8 compartments ie diagram 99 BT. While the sides of the rear coach aren't very clear even in Bigherb's enhancement, backed up by the evidence of the roof vents, it seems to be 2 compartments / lav / 2 compartments / lav / 2 compartments + van, ie this would suit a diag. 418 BCL.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

 

Even I feel somewhat guilty at adding to exchanges regarding Mr Maunsells converted carriage stock, on a thread seemingly intended for a debate on Mr Adams locomotives. But hey, no one seems to mind, and all the postings have been of high value.

 

So the reasonable conclusion might be that, along with Lyme Regis locos, we are soon to be offered a Lyme Regis Carriage set, which could be used elsewhere in the Western division. Where else can we go? I believe that the line was engineered by Arthur Pain, a gentleman not normally associated with the LSWR. The loco shed at closure was a rebuild, but I venture to suggest that the final design was influenced by the original, in which case we can recreate an historic record of an Arthur Pain Loco Shed, (with opportunities for GWR use elsewhere). With the Goods Shed, then a pair of new buildings for Scaledale. If OOC do not re-issue their Bristol K and L type buses soon, then OD will. And the Cobb is as modellogenic a scene as any, with or without Ms Streep.

 

PB

Edited June 14, 2015 by Peter Bedding

[ruggedpeak]

Yes, Kernow are very active with a bold program but it is notable that most of the commissioners are avoiding coaches and I believe Dave Jones has indicated that the costs and returns of doing coaches is not attractive for him (I may be wrong, apologies to Dave if it is wrong).

IIRC I think that was more wagons due to their low retail prices/margins (but won't be trawling forum to check).

 

I agree Hornby have played a blinder here, they are tackling the competition head on and I can see it as a very smart move to bring out suitables coaches to support the Radial loco. I can see a variety of scenarios, but from a marketing perspective it puts the pressure back on the competition. If Hornby turn out a better or equal loco with coaches then its in the back of the net!

 

I can perhaps now understand why Mr Southworth was so reticent last year on here, as the big H appears to have had a cunning plan and he was keen to ensure none of it leaked out so that the competition had no clue about what was coming. Fair play to him - getting some well deserved stick was inevitable and something they had to take on the chin! I had not expected Hornby to be so ready for the fight. This latest video clip shows that they are more than ready. Well done Team Red!

 

I won't eat my hat/kilt yet until the models actually appear but I may have to start practicing. Perhaps a nice trilby with some Peppercorn sauce!