Hornby announce SR 58' Maunsell Rebuilt Ex-LSWR Coaches

[Wickham Green]

Based on the previous releases of Maunsells, Hornby seem convinced they are the same shade. A learned member, 10800, demonstrated this by a single photo some years back, with one vehicle in each livery juxtaposed. Hard to argue with!

Probably why my Bulleid-liveried seven-set has Brake Thirds with water pipes, repainted roofs and waist-level scratch marks where numbers have been removed whereas the full Thirds and Composites have a slightly different shade of green on the droplights !!?!

[Dunsignalling]

Careful !- you're implying that there was a significant difference between "BR" green and SR Malachite with BR markings ....... I think the jury's still out on that ! ( Until the new H.M.R.S. Livery Register p'raps ? )

 

My own feeling is that SR Malachite may have been a tad lighter but ageing and revarnishing in the years that elapsed before BR green was introduced, caused it to darken, resulting in more-or-less the same shade.

 

That said, if a vehicle was painted by the SR (or using remaining SR paint shortly after nationalization), the colour is, by definition, not BR green. 

 

John

 

Edit: Coachmann's post (which went on while I was typing this one) suggests the BR shade was deliberately formulated to match what the SR colour had become - a typically pragmatic Southern Region way of doing things. It would also explain why they didn't make the obvious choice of the existing EMu green. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Peter Bedding]

It is said that when BR Southern Region introduced 'coaching stock green' in 1956, it was meant to match or resemble the shade the SR Malachite had become (darker) through revarnishing over the preceding seven years. Not to be confused with the green (lighter) that the Southern Region, London Midland Region and Eastern Region was applying to electric stock in the 1950's.

 

I think, Larry, that you have hit a perennial nail right on the head. I have my original much-thumbed copy of the 1970 edition of the HMRS Livery Register, which accompanied me to Circle meetings when such were held at Worplesdon Village Hall in the 1970s. The authors had put much effort into this definitive work, and were (rightly IMHO) most proud of the result. I await the renewed edition of this Register with keen interest.

 

PB

[Peter Bedding]

Still on topic (!) the attached photo of the prototype may also be of interest to the informed readership.

 

 

Found on the web, if the rightful owner should wish to claim credit, I hope he/she will do so.

 

PB

[cromptonnut]

Just collected my two from my local model shop, and very impressed.  Just waiting for the sound fitted Oxford Radial and I can start my Lyme Regis project.

 

In case anyone's interested they have quantities of R4717, R4718, R4719, R4720 in stock all at £37.99 each.  ScaleRail 01293 783558.

[Wickham Green]

I think, Larry, that you have hit a perennial nail right on the head. I have my original much-thumbed copy of the 1970 edition of the HMRS Livery Register, which accompanied me to Circle meetings when such were held at Worplesdon Village Hall in the 1970s. The authors had put much effort into this definitive work, and were (rightly IMHO) most proud of the result. I await the renewed edition of this Register with keen interest.

 

PB

Which is a timely reminder that an addendum to the Livery Register was issued after first publication ( not to hand, unfortunately, so I can't put a date on it ) admitting that the shade of green that had been THOUGHT to be malachite - and was reproduced in the colour samples - was PROBABLY the shortlived 'Dover' green ......... so be very careful with malachite green from the original Livery Register ( and any cans of paint or ready-to-run models that might have been based on it ) !

 

The LSWR/Southern Livery Register was first published in 1970 and the Addendum - whilst undated in itself - refers to 'twenty years since' .... so must have been 1990 or thereabouts ....................... seems like half a lifetime ! ( probably 'cos it IS )

Edited August 4, 2016 by Wickham Green

[PatC]

My SR liveried pair (Set 45) arrived from the good people at Kernow yesterday. Looking over them last night I really had to pinch myself ... decent Southern coaches of any description, let alone non-corridor stock, was something we could only dream of 20 or 30 years ago, now I feel we are being really spoilt. The level of detail on these is quite astonishing, and far in advance of anything I could produce from a kit (which reminds me I have a  Roxey LSWR brake that I started years ago and needs finishing off, although its likely to be put to shame by these beauties). Well done Hornby and thanks for the usual excellent service Kernow.

[Dunsignalling]

Just got back from my local retailer who (like me) is mightily fed up that Hornby have failed to supply him with ANY of these coaches in BR crimson, which are the ones most of his customers want, whilst delivering two dozen of the SR green ones, all of which remained in stock when I left his shop at mid-day.

 

He rang Hornby and there MAY be some more in November but it all sounded rather reminiscent of the 'Exeter' episode so I decided to track some down for myself on-line rather than possibly being forced into buying the train pack just to get a pair of coaches (I already own a model of 30583 in that condition).

 

Given what's happening to the pound (and likely to continue doing so), the price is likely to rocket by the end of the year anyway.

 

By the time I got home at 1300, I couldn't find anybody with both R4746 and R4748 still in stock except Hornby themselves.........

 

Pre-order with local dealer duly cancelled.

 

John

[Peter Bedding]

 

If this view should prove to have been taken at Lyme Regis, then I may claim to still be on topic. This particular coach, a 56ft Lav Third (ex Composite), is believed to have earlier been a part of Set148, which itself had a varied history. And if at Lyme Regis, then it would indicate that various loose coaches might get marshalled at Axminster to cope with the Summer Saturdays in the West passenger influx.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Peter Bedding

[Dunsignalling]

3rd 627.jpg

 

If this view should prove to have been taken at Lyme Regis, then I may claim to still be on topic. This particular coach, a 56ft Lav Composite, is believed to have earlier been a part of Set148, which itself had a varied history. And if at Lyme Regis, then it would indicate that various loose coaches might get marshalled at Axminster to cope with the Summer Saturdays in the West passenger influx.

There seem to have been all manner of odd coaches left in the up sidings at Axminster from time to time.

 

Some years back, I was given an unattributed/undated print showing an Ironclad Corridor First (in ex-works BR green) there - whether it was used on the branch or removed from a main line train due to developing a fault is anybody's guess.

 

John

Edited August 4, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Robin Brasher]

The availability of the crimson SR(ex LSWR) coaches is beginning to look like the Hornby Maunsell Pull-Push coaches saga.  These sold out within a few days in July 2012. Hornby promised to supply another batch in November (presumably 2012). They finally arrived in March 2014.

[geoffers]

For crimson coaches try Bure Valley Railways (http://www.bvrw.co.uk/shop/model-railway/) and/or Great Eastern Models http://www.greateasternmodels.co.uk/ Both do mail order. Bure valley had several in last Monday.

Edited August 4, 2016 by geoffers

[cctransuk]

The availability of the crimson SR(ex LSWR) coaches is beginning to look like the Hornby Maunsell Pull-Push coaches saga.  These sold out within a few days in July 2012. Hornby promised to supply another batch in November (presumably 2012). They finally arrived in March 2014.

 

So; those of us prepared to do a respray may well be advised to watch the BARGAIN section of the box-shifter websites in a few months time !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Mallard60022]

I got my Crimson Composite from Hereford Model Centre. One day delivery only. This coach alone shows that Hornby must not be allowed to 'go under'. Superb bit of kit and mine did get borrowed as a strengthener at Seaton Junction during one of the Summers in my era.

Phil

[Dunsignalling]

So; those of us prepared to do a respray may well be advised to watch the BARGAIN section of the box-shifter websites in a few months time !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Indeed. I have been contemplating getting another 8-compartment brake third to convert to a Diagram 97 7-compartment lavatory brake third. Someone posted a photo on here of one (No.2601, still carrying Set No.13) running on the Sidmouth branch in 1957, coupled to a Maunsell BCK in crimson/cream, that I fancy replicating.

 

Basing it on an olive one looks like the smart move as a full repaint should give a better result than trying to touch up the necessary alterations on a crimson model.  

 

The conversion looks fairly straightforward but all the photos of Diagram 97 coaches I have found so far show the van end to the right. Can anyone point me to one illustrating the other side?

 

All  I need to know is the nature of the panelling opposite the area occupied by the frosted window on the lavatory side, and whether there was a ventilator above it.

 

I have found a shot of the equivalent part of a Dia.290 Lavatory composite which had been further modified in BR days [EDIT: when the lavatories were taken out of use in 1958] so I doubt that the Dia.97 was similar.

 

John

Edited August 5, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Ian Hargrave]

For crimson coaches try Bure Valley Railways (http://www.bvrw.co.uk/shop/model-railway/) and/or Great Eastern Models http://www.greateasternmodels.co.uk/ Both do mail order. Bure valley had several in last Monday.

Also available at Waltons of Altrincham and GeeDee Models in Nottingham.....Far From The Madding Crowd,it appears.Sorry,Thomas Hardy.

[Ceptic]

The availability of the crimson SR(ex LSWR) coaches is beginning to look like the Hornby Maunsell Pull-Push coaches saga.  These sold out within a few days in July 2012. Hornby promised to supply another batch in November (presumably 2012). They finally arrived in March 2014.

 Setchfields of Poole  http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/shops/200-SetchfieldsModels had a full shelf load of both SR and BR(S) versions of these ex-L&SWR coaches, when I called in on Friday last.

Asking price was / is £40 per coach.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Ceptic

[chris45lsw]

Indeed. I have been contemplating getting another 8-compartment brake third to convert to a Diagram 97 7-compartment lavatory brake third. Someone posted a photo on here of one (No.2601, still carrying Set No.13) running on the Sidmouth branch in 1957, coupled to a Maunsell BCK in crimson/cream, that I fancy replicating.

 

Basing it on an olive one looks like the smart move as a full repaint should give a better result than trying to touch up the necessary alterations on a crimson model.  

 

The conversion looks fairly straightforward but all the photos of Diagram 97 coaches I have found so far show the van end to the right. Can anyone point me to one illustrating the other side?

 

All  I need to know is the nature of the panelling opposite the area occupied by the frosted window on the lavatory side, and whether there was a ventilator above it.

 

I have found a shot of the equivalent part of a Dia.290 Lavatory composite which had been further modified in BR days so I doubt that the Dia.97 was similar.

 

John

Is the date definitely 1957, John?  Set 13 lost its 56ft Diagram 408 lavatory brake compo in July 1951 which was replaced by a succession of corridor brake compos, mainly LSWR 56ft.  But per my records it had Maunsell BCK 6643 from 4/55 to 9/56.  Not sure when set 13 was withdrawn but it certainly lasted into 1957 but had gone by 6/1958.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

[Dunsignalling]

Is the date definitely 1957, John?  Set 13 lost its 56ft Diagram 408 lavatory brake compo in July 1951 which was replaced by a succession of corridor brake compos, mainly LSWR 56ft.  But per my records it had Maunsell BCK 6643 from 4/55 to 9/56.  Not sure when set 13 was withdrawn but it certainly lasted into 1957 but had gone by 6/1958.

 

Chris Knowles-Thomas

Thanks for the additional info, Chris,

 

The caption on the photo said 1957 and nothing about it raised any suspicion with me. [EDIT: I've just had another look and the caption reads c1957].

 

There is also a possibility that the BCK in the photo is what replaced 6643 between 9/56 and whenever Set 13 was withdrawn. The loco is a BR 3MT tank, if that's any help in narrowing things down.

 

1957 pre-dates my usual modelling time-slot somewhat and stretching matters a little more will be a small price to pay for having an interesting alternative short set to run. 

 

Incidentally, a photo in the April edition of the South Western Circular answers my query about the panelling on the other side of Diagram 97 coaches but isn't conclusive as to whether the window outside the lavatory compartment was clear or frosted. I'm hoping you will know.

 

John  

Edited August 5, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[JSpencer]

Looking at these models, tooling wise, I think Hornby have picked a subject allowing 4 possible models from a very few moulds with some clever design (not to be confused with design clever).

 

Of the 4 diagrams on offer, they all share the same chassis, there are just 2 body profiles and 3 roof profiles.

3 of them are brakes. One brake 3rd and brake composite are exactly the same tooling wise, it is just one has little ones printed on 4 doors.

The other plain 3rd brake has roof ventilators in different positions. You then have one non brake.

 

I have the crimson set, maybe the SR set is different.

[Graham_Muz]

Looking at these models, tooling wise, I think Hornby have picked a subject allowing 4 possible models from a very few moulds with some clever design (not to be confused with design clever).

 

Of the 4 diagrams on offer, they all share the same chassis, there are just 2 body profiles and 3 roof profiles.

3 of them are brakes. One brake 3rd and brake composite are exactly the same tooling wise, it is just one has little ones printed on 4 doors.

The other plain 3rd brake has roof ventilators in different positions. You then have one non brake.

 

I have the crimson set, maybe the SR set is different.

John

 

Indeed the diagrams 98 (loose) and 418 (in sets 42 to 46) brake composites and brake thirds were identical in real life just branded differently (third class passengers in the know could get the benefit of the wider compartments in the loose brake third!)

As you say all four diagrams do use the same chassis. Mike king assisted Hornby with this and suggested the diagram 98 and 31 loose vehicles to compliment the sets as tooling was pretty straight forward.

[chris45lsw]

Thanks for the additional info, Chris,

 

The caption on the photo said 1957 and nothing about it raised any suspicion with me. [EDIT: I've just had another look and the caption reads c1957].

 

There is also a possibility that the BCK in the photo is what replaced 6643 between 9/56 and whenever Set 13 was withdrawn. The loco is a BR 3MT tank, if that's any help in narrowing things down.

 

1957 pre-dates my usual modelling time-slot somewhat and stretching matters a little more will be a small price to pay for having an interesting alternative short set to run. 

 

Incidentally, a photo in the April edition of the South Western Circular answers my query about the panelling on the other side of Diagram 97 coaches but isn't conclusive as to whether the window outside the lavatory compartment was clear or frosted. I'm hoping you will know.

 

John  

Hi John

 

The window opposite the toilet was frosted 

 

Chris KT

[toboldlygo]

I succumbed and brought the R4749 9 Compartment Lavatory 3 Class Coach, as my other two where feeling lonely...

Edited August 5, 2016 by toboldlygo

[Ian Hargrave]

Has anyone run a pair of these little miracles behind a DJM/Kernow O2 yet ?

 

Shock....horror !

Edited August 5, 2016 by Ian Hargrave

[autocoach]

Has anyone run a pair of these little miracles behind a DJM/Kernow O2 yet ?

 

Shock....horror !

see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28665-end-of-the-line-padstow/page-5. Unfortunately only an 11 foot run.