Painting locomotives without (much) paint.

[Caley Jim]

I've been trying a similar thing with my buildings - using real bricks cropped and sized from photographs to build up the wall with exactly the shapes/types of bricks used and then printing the resulting 'kits' on sticky labels and wrapping them over card substructures. It is time consuming assembling all the bricks on the computer though, and the files get big fast for larger buildings!

At Perth show there was a chap showing building kits and texture papers which you can download as pdfs from his website http://www.smartmodels.co.uk/ for 99p a time and then print off as often as you like.  He recommends printing on matt photo paper and had examples of a kit printed on both that and ordinary 80gsm copier paper.  the differences in both detail and colour were very apparent.  This seems to be due to the inks running together on the latter paper.

 

The idea is that you then stick the kit/texture paper onto a card backing.  He also sells dvds with a selection of kits and/or texture papers on them.

 

Jim

Edited July 5, 2015 by Caley Jim

[James Harrison]

Photo's a little blurry (getting to grips with a new 'phone, and the all-singing-all-dancing big camera has flat batteries), but this is my GCR 'Immingham' with DIY pen-and-ink lining overlays.  A little more work and I'm convinced I can get a very respectable result. 

 

 

[BG John]

I've just discovered how much different software affects the colour of prints. I used Scalescenes brown brick to make up some artwork in Inkscape, and changed the colour of Scalescenes windows from black to dark green. Printing from Inkscape it came out pretty much as it appeared on screen, brown bricks with dark green windows. Unfortunately, Inkscape won't print on multiple pages, so I exported it as a PDF. When displayed on screen in Adobe Reader, the colours match those in Inkscape, but when I printed it, the bricks came out a much brighter red, and the windows quite a light green. The same happened with Scalescenes Low Relief Factory kit, that uses the same bricks.

 

I haven't investigated to see if there's something I can change in Adobe Reader, but it might be worth bearing in mind that this can happen, when trying to print accurate colours.

 

My plan is to use Inkscape to prepare components for cutting with my Silhouette Portrait, and to create "painted" overlays for them

[kirtleypete]

That's interesting; I have the same trouble with the colour photocopier at my local print shop. I print off a master of, say, 7mm scale bricks, get it just the shade I want, and the damn copier changes the colour...it's very frustrating. Even worse, next time I go in there is no certainty that it will do the same thing in the same way so matching colours is very difficult. It seems fine with multicoloured images like a sheet of enamel adverts, but has trouble when it is mainly all one colour.  Ironically the old copier they had was fine, then they bought a hugely expensive all singing all dancing machine and it's much worse.....naturally they can't change it having spent all that money. Basically it's too clever, it doesn't just copy what's on the glass which is actually all you want it to do.

 

Sorry - I needed to get that off my chest!

Peter

Edited July 8, 2015 by kirtleypete

[BG John]

Having a colour laser printer right next to you on your desk doesn't necessarily reduce the frustration!!! In theory, I have total control over it, but in practice, trying to make sense of the manual, and getting my head round all the settings in various bits of software, is way beyond the capacity of my brain! And I haven't started on locos and rolling stock yet!

[kirtleypete]

I'm glad it's not just me!!

 

Peter

[MikeOxon]

Colour management is a nightmare.  It's important that camera, monitor and printer all use the same 'colour space'.  sRGB is most commonly used for cameras and monitors but printers sometimes use AdobeRGB.  I've written about this issue on my website at http://home.btconnect.com/mike.flemming/technical/colour/Colour1.htm

 

Even after checking all this, there can still be problems, since printer inks react differently to different types of paper.  My HP printer has 'automatic' paper recognition and it does not necessarily make the same 'choice' every time!  A bit of trial and error seems almost inevitable and, once you're there, it's best to print all the necessary parts together, on the same sheet of paper.

 

I have used both photo paper and ink-jet transfer paper for some time.  In conjunction with a 'Silhouette' cutter, it's possible to make complex items, such as complete coach sides, as shown on my blog at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1405/entry-13122-instant-chocolate-with-cream/   It is very important to varnish over the printed images, as the inks readily dissolve in water and are easily damaged by any glue over-runs, if left without protection.  White edges can be a problem and, whenever possible, I try to sit the printed panels within a beading; otherwise I paint over the edges.

[BG John]

There's a lot to be said for just slapping some good olde fashioned paint all over everything! Life was much easier in the good olde days when everyone wasn't so fanatical about accuracy and detail, and Rottingdean, or something looking rather like it to a blind man viewing it in the dark, would have been knocked up using baked bean tins and a Hornby clockwork mechanism!

 

Most of this stuff about colour is way over my head. I'm currently struggling with getting to grips with GIMP and Inkscape to create accurate shapes, and colour is still something where as long as it's red, green, blue or whatever, is about as much as I can manage!

[MikeOxon]

There's a lot to be said for just slapping some good olde fashioned paint all over everything! Life was much easier in the good olde days when everyone wasn't so fanatical about accuracy and detail, and Rottingdean, or something looking rather like it to a blind man viewing it in the dark, would have been knocked up using baked bean tins and a Hornby clockwork mechanism!

 

Most of this stuff about colour is way over my head. I'm currently struggling with getting to grips with GIMP and Inkscape to create accurate shapes, and colour is still something where as long as it's red, green, blue or whatever, is about as much as I can manage!

Colour is an illusion created in the brain - which can play its own tricks!  Have a look at http://brainden.com/color-illusions.htm

[BG John]

It looks like there was a simple solution to my problem. Adobe seem to sneaked in a "Save toner/ink" option that's turned on by default in the latest version of Reader. So rather than the "up to 15% saving" they tell you you've made, it becomes an "at least 85% waste" when you have to reprint something that's come out the wrong colour!!

 

So my four page mock-up of the Scalesecenes Low Relief Factory that I've spent hours editing in GIMP, has come out the right colour, but the 24 pages I'd previously printed of the actual kit, before I decided I needed a mock-up to work out the alterations I need to make to it, is in much brighter colours! it's 24 pages because I've scaled it up to 7mm.

 

I think this is a good reminder to do test prints before committing anything big and important to paper, and don't assume that updated software will produce the same results as previous versions!

[kirtleypete]

You live and learn, don't you.

 

Peter

[Caley Jim]

I had similar problems when i printed out a small section of island platform surface (not much more than the ramp) which pokes out from under the bridge on my Kirkallanmuir layout.  I drew it out in AutoCAD and coloured the platform grey and the edging a stone colour, but when i printed it on my HP printer, it came out with a distinct greenish tinge through it.  I tried several variations on the colours and went with the best.  As I said, not much of it can be seen under the bridge so I wasn't too fussy.

 

Jim

[JCL]

Colour is an illusion created in the brain - which can play its own tricks!  Have a look at http://brainden.com/color-illusions.htm

 

You couldn't be more right. I live on Vancouver Island and we are in the middle of a pretty bad forest fire season. The gardens that I work in were heavily affected by smoke last weekend that caused the sky and everything underneath it to take on a yellow hue. I was surprised walking past the main house to see that all of the lights in the house looked blue instead of the usual daylight balanced glow. Later, we noticed that the ground near to the shadows had a red colouration on it. All very odd.

 

I used to make prints for a living for a while, and one of the main things you need to do is note down what settings that worked for you for a given paper type. There are so many settings to play with in some software packages that you'll never remember them all. Also, if you change ink supplier, you'll probably need to retest your print settings as the print colour may be different. I generally open up the settings form, press the Print Screen (PrntScr) button, paste the image into my wordprocessor and print it off. Do all of the relevant tabs. If you're really lucky, your printer driver will allow you to save the settings as a custom setting and you will be able to give it a useful name - "Staples 160gms" or "Epson High Gloss" for example.

 

cheers

 

Jason

[Northroader]

Very interested in what you're doing, the main stumbling block when I do it is I use an ancient Epsom ink-jet, and although it looks great when printed, the colour fades terribly fast. I did some nameplates, simulated brass with red background, and they lasted no time. Before you say it, this was done with Epsom ink, horrendous price, not the cheap stuff I'm now using. I bought some commercial brick paper to be used for platform sides, which you'd expect to be more stable, and this has taken on a pinker shade after a year. so keep those lovely models away from strong light. The computer is giving you an exactitude for lining out and lettering which can't be done by spring bow pen, also an evenness of cover matching anything using airbrushing, but the test is whether your inks can be as permanent as enamel paint. One thing I've discovered going round shows, is that you can be diplomatic as you can, and still get punched on the snitch if you say anything about the colour of the loco, sorry.

[MikeOxon]

Very interested in what you're doing, the main stumbling block when I do it is I use an ancient Epsom ink-jet, and although it looks great when printed, the colour fades terribly fast. I did some nameplates, simulated brass with red background, and they lasted no time. Before you say it, this was done with Epsom ink, horrendous price, not the cheap stuff I'm now using.................

I'm surprised you found Epson inks so poor, as they seem to do quite well in fading tests such as http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/the-inkjet-investigation-part-3_Page-2

 

Many years ago, I read a review on a (I think) Polish website that found HP inks particularly fade-resistant, so I bought my HP printer on that basis.  Now, the choice is not so clear. 

 

When I use printed panels for lining and lettering, I always coat the prints with a clear varnish, which should provide protection against fading due to ozone and other gases and, perhaps, against UV.  The varnish is also essential to protect against the effects of moisture, which I find to be by far the biggest threat to printed panels.  So far, I have not noticed any fading problems.

[kirtleypete]

It will be interesting to see what happens; keeping the models in boxes when not in use, and hopefully the varnish, should stop them fading all being well.  

 

Peter

[JCL]

Hi mike, I seem to remember my Epson inks were good for 90+ years. That said, I was producing prints to sell, so had a higher end printer. Epson produces a number of different ink types depending on the projected use of the printer model.

[Northroader]

I don't have any axe to grind with printers, generally or in particular, as I'd be totally lost without mine, just saying how it happened. The tip re using clear varnish makes sense, must do more of that. Looking around the loft, I notice that some print- outs I did for posters which are mounted behind Makrolon don't have such a degree of fading, so protection should work. Fading is a fact of life, what about BR rail blue paint for example? You never see any mention if modellers ever cover their layouts with dust sheets when not in use, I suppose if we regard them as works of art we should?

[MikeOxon]

I don't have any axe to grind with printers, generally or in particular, as I'd be totally lost without mine, just saying how it happened. The tip re using clear varnish makes sense, must do more of that. Looking around the loft, I notice that some print- outs I did for posters which are mounted behind Makrolon don't have such a degree of fading, so protection should work. Fading is a fact of life, what about BR rail blue paint for example? You never see any mention if modellers ever cover their layouts with dust sheets when not in use, I suppose if we regard them as works of art we should?

I suspect that many testers assume that UV exposure is the main cause of fading but, in fact, it may not be.  Various atmospheric pollutants and moisture are probably at least as, if not more, significant.

 

My, rather small, layout is inside an enclosure, with a hinged lid and removable transparent front panel.  It does a great job in protecting against excessive light and dust.

 

Mike

[JCL]

Hi Northroader, I do agree. I printed octagonal building that I designed failed badly when I sprayed some Matt varnish on it - ironically, to stop it fading...

[billbedford]

If you want colour fast prints you should be looking at giclee or archival inks and papers.

[James Harrison]

Another crack at printing some lining.  Much happier this time around!



 

[kirtleypete]

That's really nice.

 

Peter

[James Harrison]

Thanks! 

 

It's finished now. 

 

[ChrisN]

Thanks! 

 

It's finished now. 

 

 

That just looks excellent!  It is really a useful technique.