Redford73 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I know this topic comes up a lot but I use a soldering iron very rarely and only for wiring. For my past two layouts I have used a Draper 30W iron and I have always found it a bit slow but it is now not working properly because the tip and also the metal on the iron is oxidised. I always follow instructions and the usual knowledge re cleaning joints, tinning and cleaning the tip when using but I always seem to end up with oxidised tips and they don't heat up the wire/metal I am soldering enough for the solder to flow. I am loathe to try to clean the tip or iron with abrasives or cleaning products (as I know you're not supposed to) but the wet sponge is not doing the job at all. Everytime I watch others on videos/demos it looks so easy with the user holding the iron for only a few seconds before applying solder. Am I doing something wrong or are the Draper irons and accessories just not very good? I note that the tip is a medium sized one with the 'angled screwdriver ' type tip rather than a fine one - is that the problem given that I am using it to solder multicore wire? It did the job fine when I first bought it. I will probably buy a new one from a more widely used make but am loathe to do so if I am doing something wrong and will just have the same problem again. Any advice much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliff park Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 If the tip is 'plated' it should be cleaned with just a wipe. A damp sponge etc. A plated tip is silver coloured all over. If the tip is unplated, ie copper, you can use anything to clean/reshape it. Ie a file, make it any shape you want. The downside of course is that over time your bit will disappear, hence replacement bits, of various shapes. If you go down the filing route make sure you have, or can get, a spare tip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 ...I always seem to end up with oxidised tips and they don't heat up the wire/metal I am soldering enough for the solder to flow. I am loathe to try to clean the tip or iron with abrasives or cleaning products (as I know you're not supposed to) but the wet sponge is not doing the job at all... Once the plating has corroded through and you are on the copper of the bit it will oxidise rapidly. File the tip to clean copper while cold, heat up, re tin and off you go. Replace the bit once too short for the work. Don't worry about oxidisation of the barrel of the iron. Never yet had one corrode through, and the element typically fails after a good many years use, and many, many, replaceable bits 'eaten'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Modern irons are a cheap and poor image of their former counterparts. The tips tend to be poor quality iron with a very fine coating of copper or n/s - old irons used to be solid copper. So with an old "fashioned" iron you could file them to any shape, use abrasives then re-tin and have an as new iron. DO NOT try this with new irons as you will remove the plated layer as fast as the oxidised. Oxidation on the barrel has no effect. Most heating elements are woun1d round a ceramic barrel and the metal casing is simply there to prevent damage to the element and to assist heat dissipation when not using it. (when the iron should be placed in a metal stand - helping to preserve element life) I know others advocate sponges but I never use them as I believe they introduce more dirt and the rapid cooling of the tip by the water encourages rusting. I use a tin of brass shavings/copper-brass "brillo" type pad. This keeps/scrapes off most of the crudddy residue from the tip. Multicore solder is great for electrical work but the rosin flux in the core does not simply disappear. A black residue remains - It is my belief that this is even more the case where the technique of carrying solder to the job on the tip is used. I prefer the technique of heating the wire and introducing the solder to the join (in quick succession) If the iron is of the coated steel type you have nothing to lose by using something like wet'n'dry on it (If it is already dead you might just resurrect it for a couple more sessions.) But I suspect the tip will be pitted and will not tin properly. Just a note to anyone who doesn't already know - Never turn on a new iron without tinning the tip. The best way to do this is to dip the tip in solder paint - or at least have the multicore solder wire touching the tip from the moment you switch on. Some manufacturers claim their irons are pre-tinned - don't trust them. [Ed.] phantom keys on my keyboard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted June 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 16, 2015 I know others advocate sponges but I never use them as I believe they introduce more dirt and the rapid cooling of the tip by the water encourages rusting. I use a tine of brass shavings/copper-brass "brillo" type pad. This keeps/scrapes off most of the crudddy residue from the tip. I've never thought of that, I shall try it out as I'm not over enamoured with the sponge, as you say it cools the tip rapidly and I am forever having to tidy it up when it's cold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I've never thought of that, I shall try it out as I'm not over enamoured with the sponge, as you say it cools the tip rapidly and I am forever having to tidy it up when it's cold. It is just another of those "Marmite" issues (myths even) a bit like the one about carrying solder on the tip causes degradation of the solder. (and all those other old man's tales - I was taught to solder using a solid copper tip on an iron heated in a gas flame by someone who mended saucepans! When there is seen no need for change - why do it? ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 My insertions in italics: Modern cheap irons are a cheap and poor image of their former, more expensive, counterparts. It's still perfectly possible to buy a decent budget iron of good quailty at the same (in reall terms) cost as you could many years ago. The problme is that too many modellers are skin flints spend everything on the latest highly detailed model and leave too little for a decent tool kit and materials. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 It is just another of those "Marmite" issues (myths even) a bit like the one about carrying solder on the tip causes degradation of the solder. ( It's fine for metal bashing and kit building where extra flux is always applied to the workpiece. For electrical work using cored solder it only causes problems. What it does is burn off all of the flux which does, in effect, degrade the solder, or at least the ability to make a decent joint with it. A simple mantra is Iron-1-2-3, solder-1-2-3, that is apply the well tinned tip to the workpiece, count to 3, apply the flux cored solder and keep applying it for 3 seconds, remove iron and solder wire ensuring the joint is supported until the solder sets. The tinning is to maximise the contact with the workpiece and aid heat flow to get the piece up to temperature as quickly as possible, it forms no part of the actual soldering material. There should be as much solder on the iron after completing the joint, as before. Clean, re-tin and repeat for the next joint. You learn to adjust the time for different situations. Don't expect to be an expert just because you followed some advice from the internet, or a book. Soldering, like so many other modelling skills, can only be learned by a willing pupil, putting in the hours of practice, not taught, no matter how good the teacher. A more powerful iron is always better. More power does not mean hotter, it means the ability to keep the temperature up whilst soldering. For layout wiring I would not recommend anything less than 50W as a length of track or DCC bus cabling makes a good heatsink, sucking the heat out of the tip. Temperature control is even better, but not essential. Don't leave the iron switched on for long periods if you are not actually using it. That's a sure way to end up with a badly oxidised tip. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Dicky Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Most modern soldering iron tips are made of low quality copper coated in iron carbide. Once you wear through the coating you will find for a while the iron will solder well but over time a cavity will appear and the tip will need replacing. To clean a badly oxidised tip you need to abrade it but you need to be careful not to scratch through the coating, so files, emery cloth and wet n dry are out. A brass brush is the answer, I had a technician who managed to revive some really badly oxidised tips using a small brass wire brush in a Dremel type tool. Once clean the tip needs to tinned as you have been advised already. Not getting to the point where your tip becomes covered in crud is the answer to getting a long serviceable life out of your tip. The crud that develops on the tip is mainly oxides of lead and tin, the tin being the harder oxide. If your iron spends long times sitting hot in the soldering stand the flux burns off and the constituents of the solder vapourise as well leaving the oxide crud. This is one of the reasons why lead free solders are used these days. Keeping the tinning refreshed is way to do it, if you are doing a lot of soldering then this will happen as a result of the process. If as mentioned already your iron is spending a lot of time in the stand then you periodically need to add solder. Your sponge is your friend in keeping the iron clean, I always give it a wipe before soldering and after each bit of soldering. Why? Oxides are suspended in the flux once it burns off they settle on your tip, wiping the tip regularly removes these suspended oxides. It will not stop the tinning from further oxidation that is something that will happen where heat is involved but the less you have to deal with the easier it is to keep the tip clean. Finally when you have completed soldering always wipe the tip so you can see a silvered tip before switching off the iron. You mentioned that the sponge was cooling your iron down. That may be because you are holding it in the sponge too long, a quick wipe is all that is needed. Holding it in the sponge too long could be where you are picking up detritus that is contaminating the tip. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Hi Richard, I agree with almost everything you said but have to contradict one thing that although it makes sense it is completely different in my experience. OK, one caveat before I start in that most of my soldering is kit based with only occasional layout based electrical work. My iron(s) get switched on first thing in the morning and often do not get switched off until late evening. Perhaps that has more to do with the fact I follow the rest of the advice and re-tin often and that they are worked hard. Despite having a RSU for most of my work these days - there is still a requirement for a good iron. Yes good does not mean expensive but cheap (£9.99 made in an obscure land) often means bad. But the OP did state electrical and multi-core. Though always a broad range of advice is good to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crosland Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Most modern soldering iron tips are made of low quality copper coated in iron carbide. A good quality tip will be fine, I have never, for example, managed to wear through the plating of an Antex tip. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redford73 Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Thanks for all the comments/advice. I will try abrading the tip - always thought you just shouldn't do this but it makes sense and I will be buying at least a new tip but probably a new iron so if it goes pear shaped it wont matter. The only fault/cause raised above which I am guilty of is leaving the iron on the stand in between the wiring. I tend to do a lot of wires in one go so that is probably the reason for the heavy oxidisation. I always use the 'introduce solder to the join' method. Does anyone have (or has used) the Draper irons? Was wondering if this wasn't a contributor factor as they are quite cheap and not very widely used? Mind you I also have a Draper jigaw and orbital sander both of which are fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Dicky Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 A good quality tip will be fine, I have never, for example, managed to wear through the plating of an Antex tip. Andrew I agree with you Andrew, I have used Antex irons and treated carefully tips will last almost indefinetly, but keeping the coating intact is essential. I have seen many an Antex tip destroyed mainly by the inexperienced abusing the tip and abrading the coating off. As a teenager I had an iron manufacturer unknown which which had an unplated copper tip which lasted me well into adulthood and the tip never needed replacing, unfortunetly some scroat relieved me of it. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If you want a good workhorse soldering iron, I recommend the Hakko brand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
14Steve14 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 For all my electrical work I use a simple and cheap 15w iron. You do not need to buy big, but it does help. I can even solder dropper wires to oo code 100 rails with it. I also never apply the solder to the iron, always to the bits being soldered, as is good practice. Keep the tip clean, and I do this by wiping it with a dry kitchen towel. Just don't leave it too long as your tender little pinkies and very near a hot iron. Clean the tip if it is going to be left in a strand for a while, or clean it before you start soldering again. If you seem to be having problems with your iron and it has a tip that can be replaced and is held in place with a small screw, try removing the tip and cleaning where the screw makes contact, then refit the tip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 and it has a tip that can be replaced and is held in place with a small screw, try removing the tip and cleaning where the screw makes contact, then refit the tip.A very good point, I don't recall being made before. Though this might be a problem in itself. Last time I did it the screw snapped (it had rusted to such an extent). IIRC someone on here suggested in the past that when buying such an iron new and before ever turning it on, it was a good idea to remove the screw and replace it after greasing with high temperature grease or some such. I don't think I have such or remember in the haste to put a new iron to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Just to correct some myths. Modern soldering irons, designed mainly for electronics, use plated iron tips. These are superior to copper tips as they retain the shape longer , as modern tips have quite sophisticated tip designs. Hence plated iron is a sign of a better soldering iron for fine assembly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 … it was a good idea to remove the screw and replace it after greasing with high temperature grease or some such. … Indeed a good idea! What about graphite as h/t grease? Asks Armin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Just to correct some myths. Modern soldering irons, designed mainly for electronics, use plated iron tips. These are superior to copper tips as they retain the shape longer , as modern tips have quite sophisticated tip designs. Hence plated iron is a sign of a better soldering iron for fine assembly This thread is full of novel ideas... They're iron-plated, not plated iron!!! http://www.apexhandtools.com/weller/documents/Weller_Soldering_Tips%20_Brochure.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Your sponge is your friend in keeping the iron clean, I always give it a wipe before soldering and after each bit of soldering. Richard It is good practice to wipe before using the iron, but not after - there may be oxides suspended in the solder, but that's roughly where they'll stay until you next wipe the tip. If you wipe before leaving the iron for a while, you risk removing the tinning and allowing the iron plating on the tip to oxidise. See point 1, page 6: http://www.astro.umd.edu/~harris/docs/WellerSoldering.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 This thread is full of novel ideas... They're iron-plated, not plated iron!!!http://www.apexhandtools.com/weller/documents/Weller_Soldering_Tips%20_Brochure.pdf Actually what I meant was that they are nickel plated iron ( thats where I said plated iron ) the iron is first coated onto a copper carrier. The term ironclad has been used to describe that as it's not a plating process. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajaxjones Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Still have an Antex 25w , works for wiring and not afraid to sand the tip with an abrasive block to clean the crud off it. If it doesnt hold solder I'll puddle some on the tip and burn it on and use carr's yellow flux when soldering droppers on rails as well. If it gets really bad I'll just buy another tip. Low temp solder for brass kits as well as that really makes the difference to getting solder to flow. If it's component wiring on PCB's then concave meniscus is your friend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted June 13, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2016 With apologies to the OP for tagging my problem onto their thread. The fuse on my temperature controlled soldering iron blew the other week a few seconds after I switched it on. Prior to that I'd not noticed any problems with the iron. I replaced the fuse and it hasn't blown again although I do admit to replacing an 0.5A fuse with a 0.8A fuse which is all I had in stock. Since then the iron doesn't seem as efficient as it was previously. It does melt solder and it will solder but not as quick as before. The tip, which has been tinned seems to go a golden colour almost immediately after it has been wiped on the sponge. I'm no engineer but I'm sure that I would have noticed these things previously had they existed all along. It is possible to buy replacement irons (complete) but no other spares are offered. Could the heating element be failing making a replacement iron the most realistic option? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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