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Typical rakes and diagrams for the Midlander, late 1950s


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I am considering starting to collect and/or build from kits a typical rake of crimson and cream coaches that would have been used for services between London Euston, Birmingham New Street and Wolverhampton High Level in the late 1950s.  The gauge will be O Fine 7mm.

 

I am aware that the most likely coaches would, by this time be Mk Is, but late LMS stock (Period III, Porthole, etc.) might also have been used.  I certainly do not want a complete set of Mark Is, though, as photos show that the Midlander and other timetabled trains could have a variety of diagrams, etc.  And the odd crimson coach would also be fine, say a full brake behind the locomotive.

 

Given the relatively short run, I imagine that refreshment cars would be more likely than full kitchen diners.  Would that be correct?

 

I do not have any reference books with me in France and not much chance of getting hold of them easily, so is there anyone with some wisdom to share?

 

For O gauge I have at least three sources to consider - Heljan, JLTRT and Sidelines.  I already have one Sidelines (D1917).

 

The train I wish to emulate is shown in this painting:

 

http://warwickshirerailways.com/misc/ph2.htm

 

I also have the locomotive, by the way!

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If you want to do the train in crimson and cream, your cut-off date is probably June 1956 as The Midlander was one of the first LMR trains to go over to a BR maroon set when the livery was launched.  The Summer 1954 formation (Mon-Fri) from north to south was:

 

3 TK (42) (Fridays only)(northbound train only)

TK (42)

BTK* (24)

TK* (48)

2TO*  (64)

RK
FO (42)

Semi-FO (30)

BFK (27)

 

Figures in brackets are number of seats in each carriage.  * indicates BR Standard (Mark I) stock.

 

By Winter 1957-8, the formation of the 5.50 pm from Euston Saturdays Excepted had grown to:

 

2 SO (56) (Fridays Only)(a)

SO (56)(a)

FK (36)(a)

BCK (12/21)(a)

BSK (24)

2 SO* (64)

RK

2 FO* (42)

FK* (42)

CK* (24/18)

BSK* (24)

 

(a) = these coaches were not in the up working, the 11.00 am from Wolverhampton.

The title (and quite possibly the service) was withdrawn in September 1959 after which the expresses between London and Birmingham were concentrated on the ex-GWR route until electrification was completed in 1967.

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Thank you so much for this excellent response.  I thought I had acknowledged it before but see it did not happen in fact, even if it did in thought.

 

I have just received a second hand copy of Jenkinson & Essery's LMS Coaches reference book (from the G & WR bookshop at Toddington!) and can now start to put together a potential rake of coaches with examples from Sidelines, Heljan and JLTRT.

 

One thing I am a bit confused by is the timing of the service with respect to the type of restaurant car service.  The Up Midlander arrived in Euston before lunch (us Brummies would have called that dinner at the time!) while the Down Midlander was an early evening service (the first of the evening departures according to one source, which put pressure on the Jubes to not lose time).  This would suggest to me that by the late 1950s BR would probably not be supplying meals served at table.  So a Buffet/Cafeteria car might have been more appropriate?

 

I have found some useful information on the Birmingham History Forum but mostly trainspotters' memories of locomotives.  I have to admit that I would definitely fall into the same category.  It was the power, not the load, that captivated me.

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I have a book written by Clive S. Cater called Passenger Train Formations 1923-1983 LMS-LM Region.

It doesn’t cover every year but gives you examples.

 

The dinning accommodation of the postwar set had changed to a full Kitchen Car paired with an Open First and two Open Thirds. This arrangement was continued in the 1960s but with a Mk1 Kitchen Buffet

 

16.35 Euston-Wolverhampton

 

1954

Euston dep 16.37

C3 C3 B3 C3 C3 O3 O3 KC O1 CC B1

 

Corr third (42) (LMS) (FO)

Corr third (42) (LMS)

Corr Brake Third (BR1)

Corr Third (BR1)

Corr Third (BR1)

Open Third (BR1)

Open Third (BR1)

Kitchen Car (LMS)

Open First (42) (LMS)

Corr Composite (BR1)

Corr Brake First (30) (LMS)

 

1963

Euston dep 16.30

O2 02 C2 C2 B2 O2 O2 KB O1 C1 C1 B2 BV

 

Open Second (56) (LMS) (MO)

Open Second (56) (LMS)

Corr Second (42) (LMS)

Corr Second

Corr Brake Second

Open Second

Open Second

Kitchen Buffet

Open First

Corr First

Corr First

Corr Brake Second

Brake Van (TO)

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I have a book written by Clive S. Cater called Passenger Train Formations 1923-1983 LMS-LM Region.

It doesn’t cover every year but gives you examples.

 

The dinning accommodation of the postwar set had changed to a full Kitchen Car paired with an Open First and two Open Thirds. This arrangement was continued in the 1960s but with a Mk1 Kitchen Buffet

 

16.35 Euston-Wolverhampton

 

1954

Euston dep 16.37

C3 C3 B3 C3 C3 O3 O3 KC O1 CC B1

 

Corr third (42) (LMS) (FO)

Corr third (42) (LMS)

Corr Brake Third (BR1)

Corr Third (BR1)

Corr Third (BR1)

Open Third (BR1)

Open Third (BR1)

Kitchen Car (LMS)

Open First (42) (LMS)

Corr Composite (BR1)

Corr Brake First (30) (LMS)

 

1963

Euston dep 16.30

O2 02 C2 C2 B2 O2 O2 KB O1 C1 C1 B2 BV

 

Open Second (56) (LMS) (MO)

Open Second (56) (LMS)

Corr Second (42) (LMS)

Corr Second

Corr Brake Second

Open Second

Open Second

Kitchen Buffet

Open First

Corr First

Corr First

Corr Brake Second

Brake Van (TO)

More great help, thank you! The 1954 rake looks like it has the right make up to match the coaches available. In fact I already have an LMS Open First from Sidelines.

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Does your book have anything on Bradford exchange C1954 - I'm thinking it would actually have been NER rather than LMR..

If you are referring to Jenkinson & Essery's book, I don't think so.  Most photos are close composed or cropped pictures of coaches with no location added.

 

If it helps, I can remember seeing a lot of Eastern Region coaches at New Street in the late 1950s, including a daily departure around 11 am pulled by a B1 (which I understand brought in the night fish train from Immingham).  And the Leeds Bradford to Bristol trains often had a bizarre mix!  So Bradford Exchange could probably have seen almost anything in 1954!

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I can't immediately lay my hands on a reference but I believe that the North Eastern Region was created in 1957.

 

Bradford to Birmingham trains ran mainly if not exclusively via Leeds and originated at Forster Square. If you want info on these in the mid 1950s try "Operation Midland - Passenger Services 1955" by P Webb and W S Beckett, Xpress Publishing ISBN 9781901056280 which gives train formations and passenger working timetable.

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I can't immediately lay my hands on a reference but I believe that the North Eastern Region was created in 1957.

 

Bradford to Birmingham trains ran mainly if not exclusively via Leeds and originated at Forster Square. If you want info on these in the mid 1950s try "Operation Midland - Passenger Services 1955" by P Webb and W S Beckett, Xpress Publishing ISBN 9781901056280 which gives train formations and passenger working timetable.

The book is largely a transcript of the carriage workings for the LMR Midland Lines winter 1955-6.  A scan of the carriage workings themselves is available here courtesy of HMRS:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/LMR/LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS.pdf

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The North Eastern Region was created on nationalisation and merged with the Eastern Region in 1967.  There were lots of boundary changes along the way plus between 1950 and 1958 some lines were allocated to one region but operated by another, so you see references to 'London Midland Operating Area' etc for that period. 

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I have now completed my research on what is available for the Summer 1954 Midlander and have a rake of 8 coaches for which models and/or kits are currently available.  But they would be from three different sources, Sidelines, JLTRT and Heljan.

 

Is there anyone out there who can confirm that these three brands "look right" when together in a rake?  I don't expect complete uniformity but would certainly expect them to run together on 6 foot radius curves and crossings.  Looking right is obviously subjective but what I mean is that, with a considerable investment the final product has to justify the expense and hard work in building the kits.

 

For the record, my basic 8 coach rake would be:

 

TK (42), D2119, Sidelines SL7061

BTK (24) Mk1, either JLTRT PWR5 or Heljan 4920

TK (48) Mk1, JLTRT PWR17

TO (64) Mk 1, either JLTRT PWR3 or Heljan 4910

RK D1912, Sidelines SL7041

FO D1917 (42), Sidelines SL7043 (already purchased)

Semi FO (30) D1719, Sidelines SL7059

BFK (27) D1910, Sidelines SL7039

 

All in Crimson and Cream livery, 1954 period

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  • 2 weeks later...

The book is largely a transcript of the carriage workings for the LMR Midland Lines winter 1955-6.  A scan of the carriage workings themselves is available here courtesy of HMRS:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/LMR/LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS.pdf

 

In this book of coach working diagrams from Historical Model Railway Society archive there is reference to 'Class 'A' Stock Suitable For Express Services' and, as a footnote, there is a  simple chart giving coach types and running numbers of the class 'A' coaches referred to in the diagrams.

 

External link...

 

Https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/LMR/LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS.pdf

 

Extract from 'LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS' is here...

 

post-13188-0-88793200-1437512324_thumb.jpg

 

It seemed like a good idea to spend an hour or two expanding this list to find out what RTR coaches could simulate mid-1950s LMR express services in a smaller scale. Two hours became two days just to find out that there are actually only four 'OO' scale RTR models available of LMS stock that match this. These are the Bachmann 'porthole' coaches CK and BTK, types which can be marshalled into almost any LMS or LMR train having BTK-CK-TK-BTK basic formation, plus the less useful BFK and FO which generally worked with a dining car of some sort.

 

It has turned out that most of the 'Class 'A' Stock' so listed was built after 1939-45 war. The notable exception being the Stanier BTK to D1968 and TO to D1999. None of the pre-war Stanier 'OO' coach diagrams modelled by Hornby, (D1899, D1905 and D1930) or Airfix, Dapol (D1905 and D1925) or Replica Railways (D1915) figure in the lists nor do any of the ex-Mainline or Bachmann models representing period 1 corridor coaches built in the 1920s (D1694 and D1696).

 

Conspicuously absent in 4mm scale are the Stanier style CK, TK and BTK coaches built just before nationalisation which had extra doors on the corridor side for easier loading and unloading. It will be a long wait before these coaches of diagrams D2117, D2119, D2121 and D2123 are modelled by either Hornby or Bachmann.

 

Not everyone has the skill, time or inclination to build Comet or other brands of coach kit so it would be interesting if wiser counsels could tell us if the Bachmann 'porthole' coaches can be back dated by the 'simple' expedient of blocking in the round windows and opening them out to the normal rectangular shape.

 

Maybe there is an opportunity for one of the companies commissioning models of locomotives to branch out into supplying coaches as well.

 

The expanded list of LMR Class 'A' Stock in 1955-56 is available here...

 

1-2-3 - BR(M)_class_A_coaches_1.pdf

 

Within the coach working diagrams there is reference to 'WR Class 'A' Stock' and it would be interesting if someone could suggest what these coaches might have been.

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The book is largely a transcript of the carriage workings for the LMR Midland Lines winter 1955-6.  A scan of the carriage workings themselves is available here courtesy of HMRS:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/LMR/LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS.pdf

Robert

 

I completely missed your post and link and have only know scrolled up to see it.  So a belated Thank You!  When I started this thread I had no idea what sort of help I would get, but it has been outstanding and beyond my expectations.

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In this book of coach working diagrams from Historical Model Railway Society archive there is reference to 'Class 'A' Stock Suitable For Express Services' and, as a footnote, there is a  simple chart giving coach types and running numbers of the class 'A' coaches referred to in the diagrams.

 

External link...

 

Https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/LMR/LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS.pdf

 

Extract from 'LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS' is here...

 

attachicon.gifLMS_class_A_stock.JPG

 

It seemed like a good idea to spend an hour or two expanding this list to find out what RTR coaches could simulate mid-1950s LMR express services in a smaller scale. Two hours became two days just to find out that there are actually only four 'OO' scale RTR models available of LMS stock that match this. These are the Bachmann 'porthole' coaches CK and BTK, types which can be marshalled into almost any LMS or LMR train having BTK-CK-TK-BTK basic formation, plus the less useful BFK and FO which generally worked with a dining car of some sort.

 

It has turned out that most of the 'Class 'A' Stock' so listed was built after 1939-45 war. The notable exception being the Stanier BTK to D1968 and TO to D1999. None of the pre-war Stanier 'OO' coach diagrams modelled by Hornby, (D1899, D1905 and D1930) or Airfix, Dapol (D1905 and D1925) or Replica Railways (D1915) figure in the lists nor do any of the ex-Mainline or Bachmann models representing period 1 corridor coaches built in the 1920s (D1694 and D1696).

 

Conspicuously absent in 4mm scale are the Stanier style CK, TK and BTK coaches built just before nationalisation which had extra doors on the corridor side for easier loading and unloading. It will be a long wait before these coaches of diagrams D2117, D2119, D2121 and D2123 are modelled by either Hornby or Bachmann.

 

Not everyone has the skill, time or inclination to build Comet or other brands of coach kit so it would be interesting if wiser counsels could tell us if the Bachmann 'porthole' coaches can be back dated by the 'simple' expedient of blocking in the round windows and opening them out to the normal rectangular shape.

 

Maybe there is an opportunity for one of the companies commissioning models of locomotives to branch out into supplying coaches as well.

 

The expanded list of LMR Class 'A' Stock in 1955-56 is available here...

 

attachicon.gif1-2-3 - BR(M)_class_A_coaches_1.pdf

 

Within the coach working diagrams there is reference to 'WR Class 'A' Stock' and it would be interesting if someone could suggest what these coaches might have been.

An interesting contribution.  Although my research is into O Gauge rakes, it is nonetheless interesting that very few of the Class A Stock listed are available in OO Gauge.

 

As to the OO gauge locomotives being commissioned these days, it is of some surprise to me that a GWR autocoach not be produced concurrent with a 48XX/14XX/58XX.  One without the other doesn't make good commercial sense to me.

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  • 2 months later...

The book is largely a transcript of the carriage workings for the LMR Midland Lines winter 1955-6.  A scan of the carriage workings themselves is available here courtesy of HMRS:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/LMR/LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS.pdf

 

At the end of this PDF there is a copy of a mimiographed memo giving running numbers of ex-LMS coaches...quote...

PASSENGER TRAIN MARSHALLING - Class "A" Stock Suitable For Express Services - Not To Be Used For Local Services...unquote.

 

When I first read this I assumed it carried the same date as the carriage workings notice to which it was appended but looking at it again it may have been written in 1950.

 

On old fashioned typewriters the capital letter 'O' was also used as a zero. In the memo the imperfect zero at the end of the date 22nd august, 1950 looks like () rather than a full 'O'. The capital 'O' in ''Office...Operating' are similar.

 

post-13188-0-80753200-1443284333_thumb.jpg

 

post-13188-0-01048600-1443284369_thumb.jpg

 

If this is the case and the running numbers apply to 1950 it could be useful for marshalling typical trains in early 1950s.

 

Screen dumps here for you to decide for yourselves...(in two parts due to size of original)...

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At the end of this PDF there is a copy of a mimiographed memo giving running numbers of ex-LMS coaches...quote...

PASSENGER TRAIN MARSHALLING - Class "A" Stock Suitable For Express Services - Not To Be Used For Local Services...unquote.

 

When I first read this I assumed it carried the same date as the carriage workings notice to which it was appended but looking at it again it may have been written in 1950.

 

On old fashioned typewriters the capital letter 'O' was also used as a zero. In the memo the imperfect zero at the end of the date 22nd august, 1950 looks like () rather than a full 'O'. The capital 'O' in ''Office...Operating' are similar.

 

attachicon.gifmemo_header_22_August_1950_maybe.JPG

 

attachicon.gifLMS_class_A_stock.JPG

 

If this is the case and the running numbers apply to 1950 it could be useful for marshalling typical trains in early 1950s.

 

Screen dumps here for you to decide for yourselves...(in two parts due to size of original)...

Yes, the memo is dated 1950.  It's clearer on the scan from which the PDF was produced.

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  • 2 weeks later...

An update:

 

I have now started on the second coach of my representative Midlander rake.  The first was bought earlier this year as a completed First Open (D1917) from Sidelines, beautifully constructed and painted by owner Malcolm Binns.  At Guildex Telford I collected a second coach from Malcolm, the kit for the all important Kitchen Car (D1912).

 

With a hiatus in other modelling projects I have opened up the box of etches, castings etc. and begun to solder the main "box" together.  I chose the Kitchen Car as my first Gauge 0 coach kit because the interior is largely hidden from view by frosted glass windows.  I would love to model the kitchen fittings but as they would not be visible it would be a waste of time which could be spent on other more visible projects.  This way the model should be relatively easy to finish.

 

The kit is going together nicely and has prompted me to get another Sidelines kit before investing in Heljan Mk 1 RTR coaches.  This will be a Corridor Brake First (D1910).  This means that I will have three coaches that would have formed the Euston end of a reduced 6 coach Midlander (I am aiming at only 6 coaches for the time being but more would be better).

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  • 6 months later...

The book is largely a transcript of the carriage workings for the LMR Midland Lines winter 1955-6.  A scan of the carriage workings themselves is available here courtesy of HMRS:

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32711444/Carriage_workings/LMR/LMR_1955-6_Winter_Midland_PTM_HMRS.pdf

 

At the end of this PDF there is a memo giving a list of coach running numbers. I broke this down to compare with RTR models and the Hornby Stanier coaches whilst marked as Class A Stock are not shown as Midland Division allocation. Please can anyone identify these coaches to a Division?

 

LMS_Hornby_Stanier_RMWEB.XLS

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At the end of this PDF there is a memo giving a list of coach running numbers. I broke this down to compare with RTR models and the Hornby Stanier coaches whilst marked as Class A Stock are not shown as Midland Division allocation. Please can anyone identify these coaches to a Division?

 

attachicon.gifLMS_Hornby_Stanier_RMWEB.XLS

 

Post number 16 may with hindsight have been a better explanation.

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  • 4 weeks later...

This morning I looked at my wish list for the Midlander rake end was horrified to find that JLTRT appear to have discontinued some of the Mark 1coaches, including the TK. A quick call to Laurie at JLTRT and I was right, there was just one left as the injection moulds have been made redundant. There will be a new run in the future but I secured my TK, complete with etch BR1 bogies a propos the vintage of my train. This will be first kit from JLTRT and I am looking forward to starting it. First, however, there are a few incomplete jobs to tackle.

 

On the subject of the Midlander rake it looks as though my Bushbury Joob will have another ten wheeler for company. 45506 was a 22B Patriot and would be seen on the other side of New Street at much the same time that 45688 was pulling the Midlander. The David Andrews kit will be delivered in October. Patriots were also used on the Midlander but earlier in the 1950s.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Following on from my last post, some good news.  The Midlander rake now has four coaches, or at least it has one coach, one coach under construction, and two kits.  JLTRT have been able to cobble together a Mark 1 Corridor Brake Third kit and it is on its way to join the Corridor Third kit I received from them yesterday.

 

The Kitchen Car is at the primer stage so there has been some real progress this week.

 

I have also ordered Hugh Longworth's tome on Mark 1 and Mark 2 coaches which will go nicely with the Jenkinson Essery reference on LMS Coaches.

 

Edit to add photograph (incongruous combination of coaches in an MPD!)

 

post-20733-0-21638000-1465575912_thumb.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

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