OO LNER Coronation Brass Kit Build Sydnope Scale Models

[grob1234]

Hello everyone,

 

Here is my build log for my recently acquired OO Gauge Sydnope Scale Models LNER Coronation kit.

 

The kit is mixed media, brass and white metal castings, and aluminium roof sections. It will build up into a full rake of 9 coaches, including the beavertail observation car for summer running.

 

I believe the kit is a limited run, and looking at it, I estimate it to be 20 years + old, and I cannot find much reference to it on the net at all, therefore, I believe this is the first build log of this particular kit. 

 

I'm the first to admit that I'm not overly experienced in building coach kits, in fact, its my first go! However, I am an experienced model aircraft builder, and I intend to use some of the techniques from that part of my modelling on this kit.

 

To whet your appetite, this is what I'm aiming for:

 

http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/43/main/48/127362.jpg

 

Now a few pictures to get started:

 

Most of the parts laid out, except the wheel bearings and the nuts and bolts. Most of the tyres have been removed from the wheel sets for easy painting.

 

Very nice raised etch detail. Of course, all this will need to be in nickel silver. I have a cunning plan for this...

 

Beavertail castings. I think the coronation letting on the rear is not in nickel silver... is anyone able to shed light on this?

 

Beavertail brass etch.

 

Reference material plus Insiglass drawings.

 

New bit of kit, 50 quid off ebay!

 

Thats all for now, I hope to provide an update soon, work permitting.

 

TTFN,

Tom

 

 

[Horsetan]

Hello everyone,

 

Here is my build log for my recently acquired OO Gauge Sydnope Scale Models LNER Coronation kit.

 

...I believe the kit is a limited run....

 

I'm the first to admit that I'm not overly experienced in building coach kits, in fact, its my first go! ....

Good luck with that. If you do come a cropper, at least the remaining kits will become more valuable...!!

[teaky]

I bet you're delighted to have Horsetan's support aren't you Tom. 

[Horsetan]

Do you not get a slight pang of foreboding whenever complex / valuable / rare kit comes together with "never done this before" breeziness?

 

Aircraft kits are grand, but we rarely build those to fly.....

[chris p bacon]

Do you not get a slight pang of foreboding whenever complex / valuable / rare kit comes together with "never done this before" breeziness?

 

Aircraft kits are grand, but we rarely build those to fly.....

I dunno, I've sent the odd thing flying against the wall..........

 

I sort of see your point but unless someone tries to build a kit how would we ever know they are any good ? in pieces it may look like it has promise but there are quite a few kits in the past which have defeated the best builders.

 

I say build it, modelling skills are just that irrespective of how and where you attain them. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

A bit Schrodingers cat again?

 

Mike.

[chris p bacon]

A bit Schrodingers cat again?

 

Mike.

Does it model aircraft ?

[Enterprisingwestern]

Does it model aircraft ?

 

Don't know, never looked in the box.

 

Mike.

[grob1234]

Do you not get a slight pang of foreboding whenever complex / valuable / rare kit comes together with "never done this before" breeziness?

 

Aircraft kits are grand, but we rarely build those to fly.....

 

Its nice to see I have the support/encouragement of the forum here... I'm simply posting on here to share my progress... as it happens, I'm thick skinned enough not to worry what people think, others however maybe not so, and won't share what they build.

 

On a separate note, I do wonder how the poster can come to such conclusions, having never spoken to me, let alone met me!

 

Little wonder then in my opinion, that people are reluctant to get into kit building and 'have a go' when they face little in the way of support from the get go.

Edited June 30, 2015 by grob1234

[jwealleans]

Not the easiest of kits, by the look of it, but you never know until you try. Looking at the pile of components one or two things spring to mind.

 

Are those plastic strips to the right to make the floors? I'd go for something more rigid - I use cobex or similar so you can solder to it if need be. In this case I imagine the underside is pretty well empty so you have more of a choice.

 

Do the instructions suggest making the roofs removable? I always split carriages at the solebar, it's easier to hide the join (unless you're Larry Goddard). With those fairings below the solebar you might have to be a bit clever about how you get the floors in and out but it may be possible.

 

I wouldn't suggest using those bogies. The MJT units make a much smoother and more free running bogie than any whitemetal one I've ever built. Use the outers as the cosmetic sides on the MJT ones, if they're the right pattern - I think they ought to be 10' HD with the possible exception of the beavertail.

 

The MJT articulation units are also excellent. See my build of the Leeds Quint on how that goes together.

 

I'd do the twin units first and leave the Beavertail until last. It's going to be a swine to do whenever you tackle it so get as familiar as you can with the techniques before you take it on. Did you know that the chap who's restoring the real one is a member on the LNER forum?

 

I think all the lettering was in cutout stainless steel, but I stand to be corrected.

 

I look forward to seeing how you get on. Does anyone know anything about these kits? Until this one came up I had no idea they even existed.

[John Tomlinson]

I wonder if anyone has ever built a kit of something they're not really bothered about, just for practise?

 

Of course, this is the recommendation made to those starting out, or others who still have a long way to go like me. If it was followed, it would probably account for an even larger number of unfinished models, as folk lacking in motivation gave up at the first bit of difficulty.

 

So I'd say go for your Coronation kit and forget whether its the only surviving one on the planet - your Executors really aren't going to agonise over what might have been.

 

Learn from any mistakes you make and be proud of what you achieve, even if there is scope for improvement next time!

 

John.

[grob1234]

Not the easiest of kits, by the look of it, but you never know until you try. Looking at the pile of components one or two things spring to mind.

 

Are those plastic strips to the right to make the floors? I'd go for something more rigid - I use cobex or similar so you can solder to it if need be. In this case I imagine the underside is pretty well empty so you have more of a choice.

 

Do the instructions suggest making the roofs removable? I always split carriages at the solebar, it's easier to hide the join (unless you're Larry Goddard). With those fairings below the solebar you might have to be a bit clever about how you get the floors in and out but it may be possible.

 

I wouldn't suggest using those bogies. The MJT units make a much smoother and more free running bogie than any whitemetal one I've ever built. Use the outers as the cosmetic sides on the MJT ones, if they're the right pattern - I think they ought to be 10' HD with the possible exception of the beavertail.

 

The MJT articulation units are also excellent. See my build of the Leeds Quint on how that goes together.

 

I'd do the twin units first and leave the Beavertail until last. It's going to be a swine to do whenever you tackle it so get as familiar as you can with the techniques before you take it on. Did you know that the chap who's restoring the real one is a member on the LNER forum?

 

I think all the lettering was in cutout stainless steel, but I stand to be corrected.

 

I look forward to seeing how you get on. Does anyone know anything about these kits? Until this one came up I had no idea they even existed.

 

Hi Jonathan,

 

Some interesting points you raise, thank you.

 

They are plastic inserts for the floors, and indeed they are rather flexible. The fairings do indeed make inserting the floor after the sides a little tricky, I had considered reinforcing the floor with extra plasticard L sections to make it more rigid. The problem as I see it at the moment is the lack of chassis per se. Normally, coaches come with a chassis (in fact I have just soldered one up in the last few minutes) and that would provide the floor. These are different, and I shall be having a think about how best to make the floors.

 

I was going to fix the roofs in place. The reasons being, I will be able to make the ends, and particularly the roof on the beavertail smooth if I affix the roof prior to painting, I will then be able to fill and sand any gaps that are left.

 

WRT the bogies, I'll have a go at building the ones supplied, but do have a feeling that they will be tricky to align correctly, due to the material used. The insiglass drawings show that the 10' bogies go between coaches A and B and between E and F. All the rest are 8' 6". I'm happy to source replacements in the quest for decent running.

 

With regard to the letting, this is what I'm referring to:

 

 

As you can see, along the sides its definitely silver, but at the back, it looks lighter, perhaps Marlborough blue as per the sides, or white? What do you think?

[grob1234]

I wonder if anyone has ever built a kit of something they're not really bothered about, just for practise?

 

Of course, this is the recommendation made to those starting out, or others who still have a long way to go like me. If it was followed, it would probably account for an even larger number of unfinished models, as folk lacking in motivation gave up at the first bit of difficulty.

 

So I'd say go for your Coronation kit and forget whether its the only surviving one on the planet - your Executors really aren't going to agonise over what might have been.

 

Learn from any mistakes you make and be proud of what you achieve, even if there is scope for improvement next time!

 

John.

 

Thanks John, thats exactly what I intend to do 

 

MJT do these which I presume Jonathan is alluding to:

 

http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2221.php

 

Also available in 8'6 units too.

[jwealleans]

Looking at the way it goes together, I wonder if you could solder the inner end to a floorpan and slide it in above the fairings? That would allow you to build an interior but any gaps around the roof would be hidden in the articulated join. The sides, roof and other end would form a box which I find is usually fairly rigid.

 

For those who don't know them, these are the MJT bogies and articulation units (here on the kitchen car of the Leeds Quint):

 

 

The bogies flex around a torsion bar as well as on the pressstud so they give a very smooth ride. These are the 8'6" HD bogies.

 

I think the lettering on the end of the beavertail is just an effect of the light - there are other pictures (in LNER Reflections?) which show them as the same letters as used on the sides. The train also carried two tail lamps in service, I presume in case one went out en route. Harris no doubt covers this.

 

Edit - just found this page which shows almost the same photograph as yours. On this one, though, I think it's more apparent that the letters are the raised cutout ones.

Edited October 26, 2018 by jwealleans

[grob1234]

I think the idea of 'sliding in' the floor plan is a very good one. 

 

I could touch up any small gaps at the end, but as you say it will largely be hidden by the articulation. I think the roofs will need to be affixed prior to this, as it will add alot of rigidity to the whole thing...

 

I like those MJT wheels. My white metal bogie casting would fit given a bit of fettling...

[Earlswood Nob]

G'day all

 

I believe that the Silver Jubilee ran with 8'6 bogies at one time. I don't know if the Coronation did the same.

 

I don't know of any white metal cosmetic bogie sides to fit the MJT CCU. If the kit contains the bogie sides you can easily make them fit the MJT inner bogies.

 

Earlswood nob

[Horsetan]

.... go for your Coronation kit and forget whether its the only surviving one on the planet ....

 

 

On the bright side, if the kit wasn't great to start with and it is the only surviving one, he might be doing the hobby a favour!

Edited June 30, 2015 by Horsetan

[shotover]

You are correct JW, Coronation lettering was polished cut out stainless steel, 2 sizes of lettering was used, 7" and 8",  due to the slope on the end of the beaver tail the 8" letters were used so they looked the same size as the side lettering, which is 7".

2 drawings are available at the NRM which show this, 12274N and 12345N.

[grob1234]

On the bright side, if the kit wasn't great to start with and it is the only surviving one, he might be doing the hobby a favour!

 

Can I just reiterate: you have no idea of my modelling ability at all! You keep suggesting I will 'cock it all up'; you have no basis to say this whatsoever. If when finished, it does not meet your obviously exceptionally high modelling standards, you are of course at liberty to voice your opinion and say so. However, until then I request that you refrain from posting in this topic unless you have something useful to say.

Edited June 30, 2015 by grob1234

[chris p bacon]

I'm looking forward to watching this one. 

 

But I have to say that no matter how good some builders are, there are some kits out there capable of defeating the best. . . although I wouldn't worry about this one as it's usually me that buys them 

 

I wonder that it is not a kit we have seen much of because due to it's size and volume of parts, it would of been an expensive thing to purchase ?

[KalKat]

You could nickel electroplate the lettering....It's not too difficult. I have used this technique on valve gear/motion in etched brass before.

[micklner]

On 30/06/2015 at 11:00, grob1234 said:

Hi Jonathan,

 

Some interesting points you raise, thank you.

 

They are plastic inserts for the floors, and indeed they are rather flexible. The fairings do indeed make inserting the floor after the sides a little tricky, I had considered reinforcing the floor with extra plasticard L sections to make it more rigid. The problem as I see it at the moment is the lack of chassis per se. Normally, coaches come with a chassis (in fact I have just soldered one up in the last few minutes) and that would provide the floor. These are different, and I shall be having a think about how best to make the floors.

 

I was going to fix the roofs in place. The reasons being, I will be able to make the ends, and particularly the roof on the beavertail smooth if I affix the roof prior to painting, I will then be able to fill and sand any gaps that are left.

 

WRT the bogies, I'll have a go at building the ones supplied, but do have a feeling that they will be tricky to align correctly, due to the material used. The insiglass drawings show that the 10' bogies go between coaches A and B and between E and F. All the rest are 8' 6". I'm happy to source replacements in the quest for decent running.

 

With regard to the letting, this is what I'm referring to:

 

http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/43/main/48/127362.jpg

 

As you can see, along the sides its definitely silver, but at the back, it looks lighter, perhaps Marlborough blue as per the sides, or white? What do you think?

I agree with JW some really useful advice given.

 

I also never start with the Observation Car, the roofs supplied will not fit due to the rear curve, I  couldn't seen one in the pictures, is there a casting for the curved section otherwise it will be a nightmare to create. If Coopercraft have any plastic roofs listed as spares ( and actually have any) that maybe a big help for that Coach. 

Fox Transfers do a Silver lettering sheet for the Coronation , shame the sides are etched in Brass. All of the lettering and numbers was in Stainless Steel.

I have built ( a different make of ) the Silver Jubilee set on my workbench thread. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by micklner

[teaky]

The answer to the first part of your question/suggestion Mick is yes.

http://shop.cooper-craft.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=16_43&products_id=281

 

Whether they have any in stock and whether you can actually get your hands on one is another matter.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Hi Tom.

Enjoy the build, I'm having fun beating TruScale carflats into submission, half the fun is solving the problems/shortages/design failings of kits from back in the day.

 

Mike.

[gr.king]

Regarding the bright lettering and window frames: I see the suggestion of nickel plating has already been made. When I last looked in the Frost Equipment catalogue (which caters mostly for car maintenance generally and restoration in particular) there was complete nickel plating kit which did not require a tank as a brush (complete with necessary electrical connection) applied the plating. It's not just a gimmick, it works, albeit slowly. I used the equivalent zinc plating kit, building up far more thickness of zinc than actually recommended in the kit notes for functional rust resistance. It has remained sound for many years, preserving a panel joint on my old motor which was previously a nightmare of regular rust formation.

 

Another way to brighten the raised letters and beading in a "realistic metal finish" rather than silver paint might be to simply tin them thinly with solder before assembly. After final painting, the raised features could be gently cleaned back to reveal the solder, and the bright finish preserved with clear lacquer. Only an idea.