On-train Catering; The changed landscape

[Chy Mengrowyn Paul]

So why is compartment stock common abroad.... ? #missmk1s !

[Gwiwer]

I noticed a comment from FGW on their Facebook page (so likely to be "official") following the announcement of their new trains which states that they have no intention of abandoning the Pullman service. We can hope that really is their intention and they stick to it

[Reorte]

I believe the last compartment stock to be built was the 1st class driving trailers on the Class 442 Wessex Electrics, since rebuilt to open format.  As for there being no compartments anymore on modern stock, the main issue is that very bad things happened in compartments including some very nasty incidents in some South London slam door stock for example and from then on only open plan stock has been built.

Yes, great if you get one to yourself / selves, awful if you end up in one with someone iffy.

[Fenman]

... Can we expect the same from Southern under the same GM and now that it is subsumed into the TSGN super-franchise? Despite the fact that Brighton - Bedford takes several hours and planned service to Kings Lynn will take even longer?

Latest plans have taken KL out of the future Thaneslink network - for which I am thankful: the idea of travelling such long distances in Metro trains designed for crush-loading commuters was not attractive.

 

The not very pleasant 365s currently on KL services will apparently be replaced in 2018 with 2nd-hand Electrostars, which will be a significant improvement. Still no onboard catering, though.

 

Paul

[stewartingram]

I must admit that I find the 365 units quite pleasant (from the viewpoint of what is available nowadays). Certainly better than the 321, or even worse, the 317 alternatives! I occasionally use LST instead of KGX, then have a choice of 317 again, or 379, which just don't appeal. Nor do the dmus from Stansted or Cambridge to Ely. It just seems a relief to get back in the familiar surroundings of a 365. Mind you, the refurbs are definitely not aa good; less "tables" (such as they are) and no carpets.

 

Bring back Mk1 stock with compartments.

 

Stewart

[Fenman]

I must admit that I find the 365 units quite pleasant (from the viewpoint of what is available nowadays). Certainly better than the 321, or even worse, the 317 alternatives! I occasionally use LST instead of KGX, then have a choice of 317 again, or 379, which just don't appeal. Nor do the dmus from Stansted or Cambridge to Ely. It just seems a relief to get back in the familiar surroundings of a 365. Mind you, the refurbs are definitely not aa good; less "tables" (such as they are) and no carpets.

 

Bring back Mk1 stock with compartments.

 

Stewart

The very high temperatures earlier this summer persuaded me that the Electrostars are better than the 365s.

 

A couple of times on the worst days I abandoned the latter at Cambridge and waited for a 379. The pleasant air conditioned coolness was as delightful as the properly upholstered seats. Though AGA sometimes caught me out by randomly substituting a hideously uncomfortable 317 for the 379s.

 

London-KL must be the only former InterCity service operated by non-air conditioned stock.

 

Though from choice I'd return to Mk2b coaches with a Mk1 restaurant car.

 

Paul

Edited July 31, 2015 by Fenman

[Joseph_Pestell]

A thread revival. I did not see it first time around.

 

I am interested in catering on the Far North Line (Inverness to Wick/Thurso). I know from my  various old timetable books that for many years (1930s onwards) catering was only available part way. When I first knew the line, early 1970s, there was an RMB on both up and down trains and the steward swapped train where thy crossed. Trains were usually of four coaches and the RMB would be part of a two car consist onward from Georgemas Jct. Just so modelable!

 

In LMS days, I think that the restaurant car, an ex-Highland Rly vehicle for many years, was shunted off the front of the down train and onto the rear of the up train. I would be interested to know when this change in working occurred.

[Bon Accord]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

A thread revival. I did not see it first time around.

 

I am interested in catering on the Far North Line (Inverness to Wick/Thurso). I know from my  various old timetable books that for many years (1930s onwards) catering was only available part way. When I first knew the line, early 1970s, there was an RMB on both up and down trains and the steward swapped train where thy crossed. Trains were usually of four coaches and the RMB would be part of a two car consist onward from Georgemas Jct. Just so modelable!

 

In LMS days, I think that the restaurant car, an ex-Highland Rly vehicle for many years, was shunted off the front of the down train and onto the rear of the up train. I would be interested to know when this change in working occurred.

 

The restaurant car (later an LMS version and at one time an ex Pullman) went as far north as The Mound or Helmsdale, was then detached and would then be attached to the next southbound service. The first northbound train would detach it's restaurant car at the Mound, whilst the second would do so at Helmsdale.

This practice lasted until the end of steam, which coincided with the abandonment of the depot at Helmsdale/the Mound and the lack of any loco/pilot presence between Dingwall and Georgemas Junction.

As I remember during the high summer months the RMB would be open all the way to Thurso.

[Gwiwer]

Just now, Bon Accord said:

As I remember during the high summer months the RMB would be open all the way to Thurso.

The problem with that being the provision of a southbound service.  I don't believe there were any catering staff based north of Inverness meaning that the morning Up would have required a second crew to travel Down to pick up the Up service at a suitable location without which those aboard might have to go without their morning porridge or bacon sandwiches.  It is possible that Inverness stewards had a lodging turn and worked throughout to Wick at times which would make some sense but at significant cost not perhaps justified by receipts.  

 

My first trip to the Far North was in 1976 when there was still and RMB in the formation but as I recall the steward swapped over somewhere, possibly Lairg during the extended stop there for unloading newspapers and mails and to cross the Up service.  

[Bon Accord]

6 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

The problem with that being the provision of a southbound service.  I don't believe there were any catering staff based north of Inverness meaning that the morning Up would have required a second crew to travel Down to pick up the Up service at a suitable location without which those aboard might have to go without their morning porridge or bacon sandwiches.  It is possible that Inverness stewards had a lodging turn and worked throughout to Wick at times which would make some sense but at significant cost not perhaps justified by receipts.  

 

My first trip to the Far North was in 1976 when there was still and RMB in the formation but as I recall the steward swapped over somewhere, possibly Lairg during the extended stop there for unloading newspapers and mails and to cross the Up service.  

 

Just had a look through my timetable stash and on finding one from summer 1972 it confirms the RMB open for the full length of the journey.
However looking at the timings it involved two "out and back" trips for Inverness crews - the first Inverness of the day had no catering provision, nor the last Wick.

[Gwiwer]

14 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

summer 1972 it confirms the RMB open for the full length of the journey.

The same timetable I had until an essential cull of everything prior to shipping out to Australia.  And as I recall much the same timetable as was operating when I got there in '76 though I do recall there was some sort of provision on the morning Up for at least the southern half of the journey.  Maybe unadvertised - that happened; trolleys reached Kyle at times despite what the timetable suggested.