North Norfolk Rly, not thinking it through?

[beast66606]

Was is just the GW that called them starting signals?

 

Nope - the LNWR did too. Sometimes.

[beast66606]

Answering the original point.

 

If I went to a preserved line which had advertised recreation of the 1960s - i.e a special event only to find a Black V hauling a 4-set (for example) -  I wouldn't be impressed as I would expect stock to be formed into valid combinations for the era* but if I went for a visit on a non-themed day I'd be happy to take what they give, even if I might raise my eyebrow at some combinations.

 

 

* my view, not everyone has to share it.

[pete_mcfarlane]

If you look at the negative reviews received by railways on trip advisor, the operation is rarely criticised, and when it is it is usually an ill thought out rant by someone who didn't read the relevant literature.

Ah yes, I'd spotted a few of those semi-literate 'I turned up on a Tuesday in November and couldn't have a train ride' and 'I had to wait 45 minutes for the train' type rants on there. As if people were expecting a train every 3 minutes. I guess a lot of these are due to there being a chunk of the population who never use railways (preserved or mainline) and so are just left bewildered by how they function.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Ah yes, I'd spotted a few of those semi-literate 'I turned up on a Tuesday in November and couldn't have a train ride' and 'I had to wait 45 minutes for the train' type rants on there. As if people were expecting a train every 3 minutes. I guess a lot of these are due to there being a chunk of the population who never use railways (preserved or mainline) and so are just left bewildered by how they function.

 

The ones that amuse/frustrate me the most are those who sit in first class without a valid ticket, are informed that they can move or pay extra, refuse to move then complain that they have had to pay extra.

[ForestPines]

Ah yes, I'd spotted a few of those semi-literate 'I turned up on a Tuesday in November and couldn't have a train ride' and 'I had to wait 45 minutes for the train' type rants on there. As if people were expecting a train every 3 minutes. I guess a lot of these are due to there being a chunk of the population who never use railways (preserved or mainline) and so are just left bewildered by how they function.

Personally I like bewildered rants from enthusiasts who have done the same even more. "I went on a 400 mile round trip to see a specific loco without checking if it was running. It wasn't running, I didn't see it, so I wasted lots of time and money. This is shocking and entirely the railway's fault." - 1 star.

 

(No it's not a real review, but it's a paraphrase of a real review of a well known railway that I read a few months back)

[Poggy1165]

I can't help but think that my wife is a typical preserved railway customer. She likes a steam engine, but provided it's steam she doesn't much mind if it's an Austerity tank or Mallard. (An A4 is about the only class she would instantly recognise without prompting.) After that, she wants a comfortable and clean coach to sit in, and if some person comes round with a tea trolley, that's a bonus.

 

We enthusiasts have our special priorities, but we are a segmented market. What one of us would travel five hundred miles to ride behind, another wouldn't cross the road to look at. So I sort of understand railways putting the mass public ahead of us. We are the icing on the cake, the day-to-day punters are the cake.

[alfsboy]

I can't help but think that my wife is a typical preserved railway customer. She likes a steam engine, but provided it's steam she doesn't much mind if it's an Austerity tank or Mallard. (An A4 is about the only class she would instantly recognise without prompting.) After that, she wants a comfortable and clean coach to sit in, and if some person comes round with a tea trolley, that's a bonus.

 

We enthusiasts have our special priorities, but we are a segmented market. What one of us would travel five hundred miles to ride behind, another wouldn't cross the road to look at. So I sort of understand railways putting the mass public ahead of us. We are the icing on the cake, the day-to-day punters are the cake.

I wonder if we are the icing on the cake or the dead mouse found inside .:-)

[petethemole]

I wonder if we are the icing on the cake or the dead mouse found inside .:-)

 

That would be the photographers who turn up at galas and don't pay for a ticket or any food/drink/souvenirs, but trespass, swear at other paying punters for getting in the way and criticize whatever's running.

 

Pete

[Talltim]

The reason I go to preserved railways is to feel the experience of travelling on old trains, not to look at them. I don't really care what is hauling them, although steam adds the smells.

For me a model railways does a far better job of representing the look of railway history, but it lack the visceral side.

[bingley hall]

Waa.......waaa......waaaaa...

 

It seems the rivet counters, not satisfied with continually dissing the model manufacturers, are now turning their attention to preserved railways.

 

Those that have a problem really should fess up as to which preserved railway they are member of or volunteer at so we can get stuck into their railway.

 

Seriously,with the number of variables facing the day to day ops of a preserved railways,as already pointed out by at least one contributor, things aren't always going to

work out the way we want them to.

 

Anyone who doesn't like it can volunteer for an extra three hours shunting at the end of the day, while everyone else is down the pub, to get everything lined up perfectly for the next days operations.

 

More whingers than a cricket commentary box full of Australians!

[colin penfold]

So in your world the paying customer doesn't have the right to an opinion.

 

The day a preserved railway doesn't charge entry fees or fares, and doesn't take contributions from individuals or the state, is the day it can do what it likes without anybody else's views mattering.

 

In the meantime, yes we have opinions.

[PhilH]

So in your world the paying customer doesn't have the right to an opinion.

The day a preserved railway doesn't charge entry fees or fares, and doesn't take contributions from individuals or the state, is the day it can do what it likes without anybody else's views mattering.

In the meantime, yes we have opinions.

But that's one of the main stumbling blocks isn't it? Generally there is a consensus of opinion of the members of a preserved line about which way to go or how to run it.

If you have 1000 customers then you probably have 1000 different opinions on how to go about things. This is why it's difficult to gauge what people want.

[ForestPines]

The majority of visitors to the majority of preserved railways, as far as my own experience goes, want: a steam train, clean facilities, friendly/helpful staff and decent refreshments.

 

Yes, they should pay attention to what visitors are looking for; but always (or, to go to extremes, only) running matching locos and stock isn't really going to help cashflow, because as visitor expectations go it's a *long* way down the list.

 

(Different rules apply at special events of course, as Beast said above)

[Guest]

Waa.......waaa......waaaaa...

More whingers than a cricket commentary box full of Australians!

 

?

Opinions... not whinges... some less valid and perhaps more rose-tinted than others, granted...

Have you read any other topic on this forum??? Take anything with "Hornby" in the topic title, for example. You'll see some real whining and hand-wringing there...

 

Edit: Maybe you should go and police some of those topics with your anti-whinging campaign. Good luck with that, btw, as I was under the impression all viewpoints were welcome on this forum within obvious limits such as politics/religion/profanity etc.

[jonny777]

For me, nothing is ever going to bring back the atmosphere of a BR station in the steam era, and I have become used to travelling behind ex-GWR locos on many lines all over the country, thanks to Dai Woodham.

 

Therefore I tend not to expect anything other than a few rides behind steam power, whenever I visit a preserved railway. I appreciate all the effort and sheer hard work that has gone into the restoration and upkeep of the stock and infrastructure, especially when I see the state of some of the unrestored vehicles in the sidings or sheds.

 

I would (and have) visit a preserved line on a freezing cold day in December if there was a decent service running, so I do not believe that I am the kind of visitor that preserved railways have as their major targets (which I presume are families with children who will (hopefully) enjoy the experience and therefore return on a regular basis), so I do not mind if the accent on the stations and trains is the entertainment of families, as opposed to matching correct locos to coaching stock. 

[Reorte]

Opinions... not whinges... some less valid and perhaps more rose-tinted than others, granted...

Quite, there seems to be quite a tendency these days to call anyone not perfectly happy with whatever they're given a whinger. There's no virtue in being satisfied with anything (even if some of the negative opinions aren't fair).

 

I tend to assume that preserved railways are run and operated by people interested enough that they'd get all the details accurate if they could, so I doubt that it's a case of "just chuck whatever we've got lying around together, no-one will notice or care."

[papagolfjuliet]

 

If you look at the negative reviews received by railways on trip advisor, the operation is rarely criticised, and when it is it is usually an ill thought out rant by someone who didn't read the relevant literature.

 

My favourite is a one star rating for the Tanfield Railway. Attached comment: "I've never heard of it. Where is it?" 

[russ p]

[quote nam

 

I tend to assume that preserved railways are run and operated by people interested enough that they'd get all the details accurate if they could, so I doubt that it's a case of "just chuck whatever we've got lying around together, no-one will notice or care."

 

I think they used to be, then as mentioned earlier along came the gold braid brigade. It seems to fashionable among 60 to 80 year olds to volunteer on preserved railways whether you like railways or not. Holt station in high Kelling was painstakingly rebuilt brick by brick from stalham and decent period signing erected only for me and Mrs Goldie to put up their own homemade platform numbers all over the place and other assorted tat!

This may not seem that significant but once these people progress to guards and even drivers the problem increases that's why we have DMUs with two red marker lights and so on

[phil-b259]

So in your world the paying customer doesn't have the right to an opinion.

 

The day a preserved railway doesn't charge entry fees or fares, and doesn't take contributions from individuals or the state, is the day it can do what it likes without anybody else's views mattering.

 

In the meantime, yes we have opinions.

 

Of course the paying customer has a right to their own opinion.

 

However you cannot ignore the fact that for Heritage railways, the amount of knowledgeable enthusiasts that chose to visit is heavily outnumbered by families, coach parties, etc who quite frankly are not bothered by things like authentic stock combinations / matching liveries.

 

As such, aside from special event days, economics dictate that it is the opinions of non railway enthusiasts that tend to govern how Heritage Railways conduct their operations on a day to day basis.

 

Thus while it perfectly reasonable to express personal dissatisfaction with aspects of a Heritage Railway, it is important to also appreciate the environment in which they operate.

[PhilH]

I think they used to be, then as mentioned earlier along came the gold braid brigade. It seems to fashionable among 60 to 80 year olds to volunteer on preserved railways whether you like railways or not. Holt station in high Kelling was painstakingly rebuilt brick by brick from stalham and decent period signing erected only for me and Mrs Goldie to put up their own homemade platform numbers all over the place and other assorted tat!

This may not seem that significant but once these people progress to guards and even drivers the problem increases that's why we have DMUs with two red marker lights and so on

Not sure what you're getting at here

[russ p]

Not sure what you're getting at here

The fact that a lot of preserved railway volunteers are not interested in railways so the end product in modern horrible speak will not reflect a true or near true scene

[PhilH]

Seriously? Then why volunteer as in doing something for nothing if you're not interested?

 

You've got to be more than interested to put up with some of the conditions we have to work in. Sorry, matey, I think your post is nonsense.

[russ p]

Well each to their own Phil, but I know a lot of people who fall into this category on preserved railways and other organisations.

I suppose it comes with living in a retirement area

[Steve51769]

Just to put the NNR's side of the story here. The plan was for the B12 to be on the Quads for the whole week of 'Quads Week' with the Std 4 restored on the Mk1s (authentic pairings). Sadly the B12 failed on the first day with severe blockage on an injector feed pipe, and despite the endeavours of the shed staff at Weybourne the loco could not be made available as it cannot run safely with only one working injector. This left 76084 as the only other operational steam loco on the railway at the time as the 9F was half way through having a new ashpan fitted and 45337, which had just arrived from Llangollen, had a leaking cylinder gasket and was awaiting parts to arrive. 45337 came on stream at the end of the week but unfortunately diesels had to be substituted on the B12 diagram prior to this. The NNR does not like using diesels on 'Quads Week' this but sadly had no alternative on this occasion. This was an unfortunate set of circumstances and in the previous six years since the Quads returned to traffic 'Quads Week' has always been steam hauled and the NNR had gone to great pains to try to ensure 100% steam this year as they will in future years. 

[papagolfjuliet]

 

 

However you cannot ignore the fact that for Heritage railways, the amount of knowledgeable enthusiasts that chose to visit is heavily outnumbered by families, coach parties, etc who quite frankly are not bothered by things like authentic stock combinations / matching liveries.

 

 

Somebody once said that what heritage railway visitors want is 'brews, views, and loos' and I reckon that's broadly true. If there's a decent cup of tea for a sensible price, if the toilets are plentiful and clean, if there's ample car parking, if there's somewhere safe for the kids to play and something to do when it rains and something to look at from clean carriages and if those carriages is hauled by a steam engine or at the very least by a diesel which can heat its train in cold weather then the average visitor will be happy. Achieve that, and you'll be able to pay for all the extra things which enthusiasts want. 

 

There will of course always be people who either don't get that or don't care. A certain 'outspoken' columnist for a certain magazine recently devoted many column inches to attacking the Bluebell for its motive power and rolling stock policies. Never mind that the railway had devoted all of its energies to burrowing through a tip before its landfill tax exemption rain out: what mattered to him was that it wasn't maintaining a vintage freight train for photo charters, and that it had been forced to hire in a red Small Prairie and a Crompton. To him, this was tantamount to treachery.