Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[Compound2632]

The Vs were evidently very successful engines but somehow the big outside cylinders sprouting out of the footplating look rather odd* and the humungous coupling rods likewise - I hope none ever broke a crankpin as the result would be mayhem! Raven's 3-cylinder Zs look neater.

 

*and must present a modelling challenge.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Compound2632

[ArthurK]

The Vs were evidently very successful engines but somehow the big outside cylinders sprouting out of the footplating look rather odd* and the humungous coupling rods likewise - I hope none ever broke a crankpin as the result would be mayhem! Raven's 3-cylinder Zs look neater.

 

*and must present a modelling challenge.

 

Rods not a problem. Here's one I built many years ago but refurbished about ten years ago. It now has Mashima 1420 and High Level Gearbox.

 

 

ArthurK

[Compound2632]

Rods not a problem. Here's one I built many years ago but refurbished about ten years ago. It now has Mashima 1420 and High Level Gearbox.

 

The rods are conveniently out of sight! I suppose the slide-bars etc. and cylinder ends are attached to the frames so the cylinder wrapper attached to the footplate is cosmetic?

[micknich2003]

The Vs were evidently very successful engines but somehow the big outside cylinders sprouting out of the footplating look rather odd* and the humungous coupling rods likewise - I hope none ever broke a crankpin as the result would be mayhem! Raven's 3-cylinder Zs look neater.

 

*and must present a modelling challenge.

Here's an Atlantic that  got a little bent.

[Compound2632]

But that's a Z with, thankfully, connecting rods in place. Looks like a particularly nasty fender-bender.

[ArthurK]

The rods are conveniently out of sight! I suppose the slide-bars etc. and cylinder ends are attached to the frames so the cylinder wrapper attached to the footplate is cosmetic?

 

This was built at least forty years ago using a Skinley drawing. I know there are a few problems with the drawing but it looks OK. The cylinders are complete and attached to the footplate. The crossheads slide out and are attached to the connecting rods which in turn are permanently attached to the chassis. Unconventional and It is a bit of a fiddle reassembling chassis and body but not too difficult.

 

The Connecting rod is partially visible in the photo below. Only the lower slidebar is visible in a side view the upper is hidden in the 'box' running along the footplate..

 

 

When the kit version appears the cylinders will drop down with the chassis in the same way as my B15 with was a contemporary of the C6. 

 

ArthurK

[ArthurK]

Here's an Atlantic that  got a little bent.

NE ATLANTIC.jpg

 

I love photos like this. Although sad and may have resulted in loss of life they show details not normally visible in intact locos. This one shows bogie detail of the coil springs and cross support on the bogie frames. On the earlier bogies with compensated spring suspension this was simply a steel bar. Upside down or on the side photos show a wealth of normally hidden detail of springs, linkages and brake detail. 

 

ArthurK

[Horsetan]

....Looks like a particularly nasty fender-bender.

The crumple zone did its job.

[mikemeg]

One more photo of a C6 taken side on. This shows the visible slide bar and the orientation of the piston rod and cylinder to the footplate. Mick Nicholson's collection, again.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited May 29, 2018 by mikemeg

[MarkC]

I love photos like this. Although sad and may have resulted in loss of life they show details not normally visible in intact locos. This one shows bogie detail of the coil springs and cross support on the bogie frames. On the earlier bogies with compensated spring suspension this was simply a steel bar. Upside down or on the side photos show a wealth of normally hidden detail of springs, linkages and brake detail. 

 

ArthurK

Very true, Arthur. The many photographs of locomotives in various states of dismemberment at scrapyards, particularly the 'killing field', for want of a better description, at Darlington North Road, are sad, yet fascinating. They too reveal details not usually seen.

[Iain Popplewell]

  Hmm l've soldered the left buffer on slightly bent.

 

  No problem I'll just gently tweak it straight with me snipe nosed pliers.

 

  Hmm it's not bending, perhaps some bigger pliers will do the trick.

  

  Come on you ###### bend.

 

  Grrr Grrrrrr Grrrrrrrr.

 

  ​Twang!!

 

​   ​Oh shXt. The buffers come off all together.

 

​  Oh my God! Look how I've bent the buffer beam.

 

​  Oh no I've bent the smokebox steps and look at what I've done to the smokebox door and hinges.

 

​ Bloody hell I've ruined it.

 

 

​  WHY DIDN'T I JUST RESOLDER THE BUFFER!!!

 

 

 

 

 

​  Looks like real life imitating modelling for a change.  

 

 

 

 

​ 

[mikemeg]

Following on from the post above and its very amusing 'explanation', here's another photo which might invite some interesting explanations or conversations. This one is much more relevant to my own modelling experiences - The bl--dy thing has fallen off again - and will help enormously with modelling all of those chains and the sleeper 'carpet' to get the bl--dy thing back on the rails.

 

The posting isn't off topic - I could even have posted this on Worsdell Forever's thread at this time; even adding an appropriate comment from Bluebottle!. Mind you, a little bit excessive just to see the underneath of a BTP!!

 

Another one from Mick Nicholson's collection.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited May 30, 2018 by mikemeg

[Iain Popplewell]

Amazing photo. It looks to me that they intend to pull the loco upright using two engines pulling on the long chain along side the track. The loco being pulled up by the pulley system at right angles to the track. I think the loco to the right is purely ballast to stop the track moving sideways under the pull off the pulleys.

 

I may be wrong of course.

[mikemeg]

Amazing photo. It looks to me that they intend to pull the loco upright using two engines pulling on the long chain along side the track. The loco being pulled up by the pulley system at right angles to the track. I think the loco to the right is purely ballast to stop the track moving sideways under the pull off the pulleys.

 

I may be wrong of course.

 

Sounds about right. Look at all of the protection on the side of the BTP, where the chains could do damage as they tighten. Could, of course, be an exercise to establish the true Tractive Effort of the two pullers against the emperical results of the formula!!

 

Any guesses as to how many of the onlookers are Elf an Safety?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited May 30, 2018 by mikemeg

[Worsdell forever]

Must have plastic centred wheels, they've put back-to-back gauges in to hold them straight.

[Compound2632]

Amazing photo. It looks to me that they intend to pull the loco upright using two engines pulling on the long chain along side the track. The loco being pulled up by the pulley system at right angles to the track. I think the loco to the right is purely ballast to stop the track moving sideways under the pull off the pulleys.

 

I may be wrong of course.

 

As you say, two engines - the second being out-of-shot on the photographer's right, even behind him - note the chain heading off in that direction. The balanced forces due to the two engines pulling in opposite directions would stop the pulley set-up being dragged off in one direction. Note also how the chains are all round the boiler - the centre of mass of a BTP is well forward especially if you've thrown all the coal out of the bunker and drained the back tank. It's rather a strange hole the engine's fallen down - but perhaps the smooth ramp up is the result of a bit of hasty civil engineering for the plank-way. Mining subsidence?

[micknich2003]

The picture dates from December 1900 and is taken at Bedale, subsidence, the young fireman on the BTP killed.

[mikemeg]

The picture dates from December 1900 and is taken at Bedale, subsidence, the young fireman on the BTP killed.

 

On a more serious note, it is fascinating to see the preparations which have been made for the rerailing and the protection added to prevent any further damaging of the loco during the process of righting it.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

Someone - no names, no pack drill - e-mailed me querying whether the posting relating to the bent Atlantic was appropriate.

 

All I'll say is I found it funny and in no way inappropriate; the point about the real thing following modelling experiences was well made and well taken.

 

As Arthur and others have said, many of these 'distressed' photos are tremendous sources of information for the modeller, despite the obvious implications on life and limb.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Compound2632]

Someone - no names, no pack drill - e-mailed me querying whether the posting relating to the bent Atlantic was appropriate.

 

All I'll say is I found it funny and in no way inappropriate; the point about the real thing following modelling experiences was well made and well taken.

 

As Arthur and others have said, many of these 'distressed' photos are tremendous sources of information for the modeller, despite the obvious implications on life and limb.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

In what way could it possibly be less appropriate than a photo of the aftermath of an accident involving a fatality?

[mikemeg]

In what way could it possibly be less appropriate than a photo of the aftermath of an accident involving a fatality?

 

I'm not going to debate this but the recumbent BTP photo is a documentary piece showing the process and arrangements to recover and restore the loco and the railway. That is its subject. Any related deaths or injuries, tragic and unfortunate though they were, are not the subject.

 

The best book I have ever read, on the history of Britain's Railways, includes a full chapter on railway accidents with extremely graphic photos and descriptions of these incidents. Doesn't make the book any less readable!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited June 1, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

While waiting for things to dry and to set on the G5's, I took the opportunity to cut out the new footplate etch along with the original front and rear footplate etches and the valances in the London Road Models B16/1 kit. The footplate was then assembled and everything on the new footplate etch checks out. This new footplate etch is more clearance friendly for EM and P4 modellers and allows the splashers to be assembled with beaded fronts or plain fronts.

 

It's worth mentioning that with these profiled footplates, the curves in the front and rear sections must be formed to exactly match the curves in the two valance strips. There is no leeway for the valances to 'force' the curves on these curved footplate sections so any differences in the curvature will be apparent once soldered up. The instructions recommend annealing these sections prior to forming the curves, however I found that they can be quite easily formed using a pair of long nosed pliars and the tang of a needle file and very carefully and slowly forming the curves, constantly checking against the valance strip as the curves are formed.

 

On these I used the same technique to locate the valances in the half etched grooves as was used on the G5's, using pieces of straight, scrap nickel silver etch soldered to the underside of the footplate and lining up with the inside of the half etched groove. These pieces are then invisible when the valance strips are added.

 

Now back to the G5's.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited June 6, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

Apart from the new footplate section and splashers, the other addition to this kit is the etch for the smokebox/boiler/firebox wrapper for the LNER 49a boiler which was variously fitted to these locos from the1930's onwards. It is worth mentioning that the 49a boiler could be fiited to one of these locos only to be replaced by an original 49 boiler at the time of the next general overhaul, so it is necessary to consult a list of which locos carried which boilers and when to be absolutely accurate. Such a list has been produced and should be incorporated in the instructions.

 

The 49a boiler (front of the two) is just resting on the footplate so is not yet levelled; that needs the smkebox saddle.

 

Anyway, the new assembled parts can now be checked against the corresponding original parts - all ok.

 

I haven't stopped work on the G5's but am at that stage where small details are being added. So there is very little visible difference day on day, until the detailing is completed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited June 11, 2018 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

Looking forward to seeing the finished G5s, Mike. 

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

I'm alternating (is there medication for this condition?) at the moment between the G5's and the second B16/1, with the objective of getting the second B16/1 build to the point where all of the new etched parts have been used and the remaining part of this build then uses the same sequence and same parts as the first B16/1 build i.e. the original parts from the original kit. To achieve this I just need to assemble the rear splashers. The smokebox saddle was folded and soldered, though not yet fixed to the footplate, to check the level of the boiler/smokebox against the footplate, which all checks out ok

 

Once this point is reached, I can suspend this build for a few weeks while I finish off the changes to the B16/1 instructions and complete the three G5's.

 

I did encounter one issue with the boiler, though this was probably of my own making. After rolling and soldering the boiler wrapper and soldering in the firebox former, I checked the front smokebox former agaist the boiler to find that the former was a few thou smaller than the inside diameter of the smokebox, even though the smokebox measures 23 mm outside diameter, as it should. This prevented the smokebox inside edge from holding the former in place. So, how to fix that?

 

Eventually I soldered in four sections of brass etched boiler band, which is around 4 - 5 thou thick, each section around 10 mm long, soldered in parallel with the boiler and protruding by around 2 mm out of the smokebox. The four pieces were positioned at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock. This effectively reduces the inside diameter of the smokebox by around 8 - 10 thou and now the front former was a tight fit. Once this former had been soldered in flush with the smokebox front, the very small gap around the former was simply filled by wiping over with solder and then the front carefuly dressed off with fine emery, which removed the protruding pieces of brass boiler band.

 

The smokebox front which, according to the drawing, was very slightly smaller in diameter than the smokebox wrapper, was then fitted using the trusty broaches to align it on the two etched holes in each of the two parts.

 

From photographs of locos carrying the 49a boiler - one such photo below, courtesy Mick Nicholson - in their later days, there was an additional washout plug located on each front corner of the firebox, level with the other two washout plugs. These will be filed into the appropriate location on the firebox side, before the rear splashers are added. Note also that the photo shows the pattern 49a boiler had circular washout plugs on the upper row, not the oval shape of the pattern 49 boiler.

 

As with the G5's where I didn't incorporate the bowed footplates which many of these locos exhibitied by 1950, I have also not incorporated the bent front footplate section which many of the B16/1's sported by 1950!!

 

Also, note that 61443, when photographed 1957 or later (and in colour), had no distortion of the front footplate and it had differently shaped cabside steps!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited June 11, 2018 by mikemeg