Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

So, having made these push and pull electrical contacts, the next challenge is how to fix them to the model? On the prototype, there was a cable which ran down from the circular contact down the contact support and the buffer beam to a junction box at the bottom of the buffer beam. So, we'll emulate the prototype!

 

Using 0.3 mm wire and a jig, made for this purpose, a wire was formed and stuck to the contact support. Once set, then the whole assembly was then stuck to the buffer beam. Voila; we have the first part of the push and pull gear made and fitted. As with many of these techniques, the first one takes some time but once the jig was made, then the subsequent ones can be done much more quickly and consistently.

 

I'm still not completely satisfied with the lie of that vacuum pipe; a little more adjustment is needed. Digital photos again!!

 

I don't know if this is a unique model and if John Rowan models this loco then there'll be at least two and it certainly won't be!

 

Now to fit build #1 with the same assemblies.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited August 16, 2018 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

So, having made these push and pull electrical contacts, the next challenge is how to fix them to the model? On the prototype, there was a cable which ran down from the circular contact down the contact support and the buffer beam to a junction box at the bottom of the buffer beam. So, we'll emulate the prototype!

 

Using 0.3 mm wire and a jig, made for this purpose, a wire was formed and stuck to the contact support. Once set, then the whole assembly was then stuck to the buffer beam. Voila; we have the first part of the push and pull gear made and fitted. As with many of these techniques, the first one takes some time but once the jig was made, then the subsequent ones can be done much more quickly and consistently.

 

I'm still not completely satisfied with the lie of that vacuum pipe; a little more adjustment is needed. Digital photos again!!

 

I don't know if this is a unique model and if John Rowan models this loco then there'll be at least two and it certainly won't be!

 

 

 

Excellent stuff, Mike. I suspect yours will be unique for a long time...

 

John

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER G5's

 

While all of this construction and completion is progressing on the two D20's, then what of the three G5's?

 

Well all of the eight electrical contacts for the push and pull fitted locos have been made and fitted. The Westinghouse pump on build #2 has been fitted and can now be 'piped up' while I await the two Dave Alexander kits for the remaining parts of the push and pull equipment. All of the pipe runs, located just under the valances, have also been made and are now ready to be fitted.

 

I've also accumulated more Fox transfers for the British Railways mixed traffic lining in readiness for the painting and lining activity.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited August 23, 2018 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER D20

 

As the Alexander Models kits for the two G5's push and pull control equipment have now arrived, then before I launch into the final phase of detailing the three G5's, a chance to build the tender sub frame for the first of the D20's.

 

Arthur does make provision for fitting springing, using CSB's, to this tender sub frame so CSB's have been fitted using High Level Models 'miniblox' axleboxes and hornguides. They are a little tricky to fit but they do work beautifully, if properly adjusted.

 

Now to check the ride height of the tender to ascertain how much weight will be needed to allow both loco and tender to ride at exactly the same height. Looks like not a lot; perhaps 1 - 2 ounces of sheet lead!! The difference, without weighting, is only ten to fifteen thou.

 

I need to adjust that smokebox top lamp iron by a couple of degrees - digital photos again - though by 1950 there was probably more than lamp irons which were off the vertical on these D20's. Still they were lovely locos even in their final years.

 

Oh and 62396 has now lost its chimney capuchon (windjammer).

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited August 30, 2018 by mikemeg

[ArthurK]

Mike 

 

It appears that a lot of the D20s retained the air cylinder under the tender buffer beam in BR days. There are a lot of photos of D20s on the LNER site under D20s in LNER days. 91 photos in total - quite an eye opener for detail. 

 

I had assumed that it would have been removed when the engines lost the Westinghouse train brakes but I was wrong. I think that 62372, 62395 and 62396 were amongst those that retained them.

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

Mike 

 

It appears that a lot of the D20s retained the air cylinder under the tender buffer beam in BR days. There are a lot of photos of D20s on the LNER site under D20s in LNER days. 91 photos in total - quite an eye opener for detail. 

 

I had assumed that it would have been removed when the engines lost the Westinghouse train brakes but I was wrong. I think that 62372, 62395 and 62396 were amongst those that retained them.

 

ArthurK

 

Arthur,

 

Many thanks for this information.

 

As my two D20 models are 62372 (Worsdell frames), shedded at Selby in mid 1950 and 62396 (Raven frames) shedded at Hull Botanic Gardens in 1950, then you have provided details on both.

 

Regards

 

Mike

Edited August 30, 2018 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

Mike.

 

There is a photo of 62396 in Yeadon in BR days which confirms the existence of the tender air cylinder, and another of a rebuilt ones' rear which gives more detail. I fixed one to mine, but of course you don't really see in in action unless you look....

 

Best wishes

 

John

[mikemeg]

Mike.

 

There is a photo of 62396 in Yeadon in BR days which confirms the existence of the tender air cylinder, and another of a rebuilt ones' rear which gives more detail. I fixed one to mine, but of course you don't really see in in action unless you look....

 

Best wishes

 

John

 

Thanks, John. Have a great time in Wiltshire though be careful! You're going to be smack bang in the middle of GWR land!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[DLT]

Lovely modelling Mike,

Cheers, Dave.

[Daddyman]

I'm more surprised to hear that some D20s didn't keep their cylinders. 

 

Your D20 is looking good, Mike - though you know what I'm going to say about the smokebox dart! 

[ArthurK]

I'm more surprised to hear that some D20s didn't keep their cylinders. 

 

 

 

I had previously assumed that when the D20s lost their train brakes the air cylinder (being redundant) would be removed. The engines (except the first rebuild to D20/2) kept their Westinghouse brakes until their demise but they had their own air cylinder under the cab. They had no use for that on the tender. Without good rear views it is impossible to answer this completely. I do know that in some cases it was only the Westinghouse standpipe that was removed from the tender.

 

ArthurK.

Edited August 31, 2018 by ArthurK

[Compound2632]

Presumably when they lost the ability to brake a Westingouse-fitted train, they had already gained vacuum brake equipment?

[Daddyman]

Thanks, Arthur - that explains why the Westinghouse pump remained: it was needed for the loco brakes. I've never seen a photo which shows definitively the tender tank removed. Do such photos exist? 

 

On a related subject, did any G5s lose their underslung W/H tanks? Plenty of them lost the pumps. 

[ArthurK]

Presumably when they lost the ability to brake a Westingouse-fitted train, they had already gained vacuum brake equipment?

The D20s were dual fitted by the NER prior to grouping. The LNER began removing W/H train brakes fron NER locos in the 1930s when the vacuum brake was adopted as their standard. 

 

Thanks, Arthur - that explains why the Westinghouse pump remained: it was needed for the loco brakes. I've never seen a photo which shows definitively the tender tank removed. Do such photos exist? 

 

On a related subject, did any G5s lose their underslung W/H tanks? Plenty of them lost the pumps. 

 

The G5s originally had two reservoirs placed laterally at the rear. Since the GA that I have does not have vacuum brakes these must have both been used for the W/H brakes of the loco (small tank) and train (tank similar to that on the D20 tender).

There are many photos of G5s from the rear. I will check out the BR period

 

ArthurK

Edited August 31, 2018 by ArthurK

[Compound2632]

The D20s were dual fitted by the NER prior to grouping. The LNER began removing W/H train brakes fron NER locos in the 1930s when the vacuum brake was adopted as their standard. 

 

Thanks. I was hunting around to see if I could find a summary of which companies used which brake but without success. Front-line express engines like the Rs would need to be able to work through trains from the London & North Western, Midland, Lancashire & Yorkshire (all to Newcastle) and Great Northern. But wouldn't the ECJS be dual fitted? (I know the North British was a Westinghouse line since the M&NB joint stock was dual fitted.)

[Compound2632]

Brilliant - clearly a 1922 edition (L&Y amalgamated with LNW, H&B with NE) but which co's rule book/general appendix?

[micknich2003]

Brilliant - clearly a 1922 edition (L&Y amalgamated with LNW, H&B with NE) but which co's rule book/general appendix?

Here's a better scan, H&B Section App of 1 November 1922.

tachment=1046089:1 BRAKES .jpg]

[Daddyman]

I can't find a single picture in Yeadon which shows (definitively) a tender with the tank removed. Even rebuilt tenders retained them. 

[mikemeg]

I'm more surprised to hear that some D20s didn't keep their cylinders. 

 

Your D20 is looking good, Mike - though you know what I'm going to say about the smokebox dart! 

 

Dave,

 

Many thanks. I built this using the smokebox dart supplied. However, I do have a couple of spares of the ones I made so guess what? This will be retro fitted with a new smokebox dart.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited September 3, 2018 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

Good to hear, Mike! 

[billbedford]

I can't find a single picture in Yeadon which shows (definitively) a tender with the tank removed. Even rebuilt tenders retained them. 

 

 

Could they have been converted to use as vacuum tanks?

[Daddyman]

Could they have been converted to use as vacuum tanks?

Would Westinghouse have allowed it? I seem to remember they wouldn't let "their" air be used for sanding. 

[Compound2632]

Would Westinghouse have allowed it? I seem to remember they wouldn't let "their" air be used for sanding. 

 

... but that was in 1885 and they had a legitimate safety concern. I can't see that they could have any case against the re-use of equipment that was no longer used for train braking on the Westinghouse system.

[ArthurK]

As most will know the LNER often added one or ttwo vacuum cylinders on the tender top adjacent to the tender filler but there is no sign of this on Ex NER tenders. However in Hoole's book "Illustrated history of NER locomotives" there is a GA of 4125 gallon passenger tender which shows a vacuum cylinder inside the front tender frame labelled 'Auxiliary Reservoir' . Presumaby this was for the tender itself. This was in adition to the normal air reservoir under the bufferbeam for the W/H brakes. I would expect  other dual fitted tenders to have a similar arrangement. The 3940 gallon GA that I have is for goods engines Q5 & Q6 which do not need this feature.

 

I think that we must assume the dual fitted tenders would always have required a vacuum reservoir.

 

Second thoughts - would not the tender still require it for it's own brakes?

 

ArthurK

Edited September 2, 2018 by ArthurK

[ArthurK]

If you keep looking you find answers in unusual places. Who would have expected to find part of the answer on the GA for the small 3038 gallon tender. The GA I have relates to the 0-6-0 locos of classes J21/J24/J25/J26 and also 4 engines of class D17. This shows the vacuum standpipe piped through to the loco without any reservoir between. The Westinghouse system, on the other hand, has a air cylinder carried laterally inside the inner frames. The pipe from the W/H standpipe is also carried through to the loco but has two branches, one the the air cylinder and one to the vertically mounted tender airbrake cylinder. Unless some one else can find one the J21s did not have the reservoir under the buffer beam so that between the frames must have been deemed sufficient.

 

ArthurK

Edited September 4, 2018 by ArthurK