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Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER


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42 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

I very rarely venture into the Layout Topics section, on here, but a couple of posts, above, reference a layout called South Pelaw Junction and Stella Gill. Anyway, I did search out the thread for this layout and it is quite simply superb.

 

I'm sure that many, many superlatives have been used to describe this layout so I won't attempt to compete, but for me it just speaks so eloquently of its time, its place and the very essence of the old North Eastern, albeit in British Railways days.

 

I was fortunate enough to have seen this place, for real, in 1962 and the layout 'shows and tells it just like it was'!

 

And it was - and the layout is - wonderful!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

Thank you for the comments on the layout Mike, I have passed them on to the rest of the team.

 

John

 

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2 hours ago, mikemeg said:

I very rarely venture into the Layout Topics section, on here, but a couple of posts, above, reference a layout called South Pelaw Junction and Stella Gill. Anyway, I did search out the thread for this layout and it is quite simply superb.

 

I'm sure that many, many superlatives have been used to describe this layout so I won't attempt to compete, but for me it just speaks so eloquently of its time, its place and the very essence of the old North Eastern, albeit in British Railways days.

 

I was fortunate enough to have seen this place, for real, in 1962 and the layout 'shows and tells it just like it was'!

 

And it was - and the layout is - wonderful!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Mike- I couldn't agree more about South Pelaw. I had the pleasure of seeing it a few years ago, I think at Gateshead Stadium- and it was like going through a time machine to my spotting days. Superb scenery, superb running and authentic trains. What more could you want.

Edited by rowanj
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Thanks for your kind comments regarding our layout. Unfortunately due to Covid 69424 is incarcerated on the layout which is located in Middlesbrough. I have found one with it partly painted. After lockdown I will get up and take some photos. Its a pretty shy engine, I think I only had two available photos, one in Yeadons on the colliery incline at South (replicated here courtesy of Dave Dunn) and the one in RCTS 9A both of the RHS. I seem to recall I had incorrect buffers fitted at one time.

 

Rich

IMG_0488.JPG

ZE 43.jpg

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Here's a rare photo though you might ask 'Why would a photo of one of Raven's Pacifics be rare?'  Mid way through their lives - 1929 - two of Raven's Pacifics were ftted with Gresley A1 boilers and this is one of them.

 

The Gresley boiler probably improved their appearance, though if they'd driven on the centre driving wheels, rather than the front set, then their appearance would have been considerably improved. Same is/was certainly true for the B16's.

 

As an aside, thanks to my old mate Mick Nicholson, I now have photos of all five of the Raven Paciifics, including a very rare shot of the first one -2400 - unnamed and in North Eastern livery and markings, at Kings Cross. Given that the first one only entered traffic in December 1922, then this could be a rare photo.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

A2 2404..jpg

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21 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

Wow, that's nice. did it still have its NER tender or did it get a Gresley one?

 

By this time, they all had Gresley 8-wheel tenders. These made them the longest non-articulated (excluding Garratts) locos on the railways at that time. I think the Princess Royals may have been longer but I'm not sure!

 

Photo below, again courtesy of Mick Nicholson, isn't the best image but it does show 2404 with its Gresley A1 boiler and Gresley 8-wheel tender. Apparently the boiler was modified to fit.

 

Regards

 

Mike

A2, Raven Pacific.jpg

Edited by mikemeg
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I have a soft spot for the Raven A2 class.... probably something to do with supporting the underdog.

 

One day I might model the Gresley boiler version... then I’d have 3 of the 5!

 

I thought that there was only one with the Gresley boiler though?

 

Jon

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5 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

I have a soft spot for the Raven A2 class.... probably something to do with supporting the underdog.

 

One day I might model the Gresley boiler version... then I’d have 3 of the 5!

 

I thought that there was only one with the Gresley boiler though?

 

Jon

 

Jon,

 

You're right. There was only one - 2404 - fitted with the Gresley boiler. I don't know where I got two from but that statement, above, is wrong.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

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5 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

By this time, they all had Gresley 8-wheel tenders. These made them the longest non-articulated (excluding Garratts) locos on the railways at that time. I think the Princess Royals may have been longer but I'm not sure!

 

Photo below, again courtesy of Mick Nicholson, isn't the best image but it does show 2404 with its Gresley A1 boiler and Gresley 8-wheel tender. Apparently the boiler was modified to fit.

 

Regards

 

Mike

A2, Raven Pacific.jpg

 

Huge long smokebox, you can see the snifting valve about 4ft from the chimney showing how much longer than the A1s they were. They were the equal if not slightly more powerful and efficient than the A1s when built but I think the A1s were slowly improved over the years. 

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5 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Wow, that's nice. did it still have its NER tender or did it get a Gresley one?

 

5 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

By this time, they all had Gresley 8-wheel tenders.

 

 

From what one can see of the tender in the broadside photo of 2404, I would say there it doesn't have an 8-wheel tender - the lining clearly indicates that it has lower sides. Comparing with the photos of engines 2400/2401 in North Eastern livery in Hoole's Illustrated History, I'd say it's the original tender.

Edited by Compound2632
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31 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

From what one can see of the tender in the broadside photo of 2404, I would say there it doesn't have an 8-wheel tender - the lining clearly indicates that it has lower sides. Comparing with the photos of engines 2400/2401 in North Eastern livery in Hoole's Illustrated History, I'd say it's the original tender.

The original Tender has the corners cut away etc, totally different from the LNER design as in the photo.

 

See here, including the same photo of 2404.

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/A/a2.php

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2 minutes ago, micklner said:

The original Tender has the corners cut away etc, totally different from the LNER design as in the photo.

 

See here, including the same photo of 2404.

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/A/a2.php

 

I was referring to your first photo, the broadside view, not the second photo, three-quarters view and not very sharp, in which the tender is obviously an LNER 8-wheeler.

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Re the fitting of the Gresley 8-wheel tenders, the LNER Encyclopaedia entry for this class, states that the Gresley 8-wheel tenders, for the Raven Pacifics, were ordered in 1933 and fitted in late 1934. The original 4125 gallon NER tenders were then fitted to new J39's. So when 2404 was first fitted with an A1 boiler and for around a further five years, it retained its original NER 4125 gallon tender.

 

So the first of the two photos of 2404, which I posted, looks as though it was still attached to a 4125 gallon ex-NER tender and would therefore date the photo to some time between 1929 and late 1934. The second photo, does clearly show the 8-wheel Gresley tender, so is probably post 1934.

 

This same source also states that all five of the Raven Pacifics were moved to York in 1934 where they finished their days on secondary passenger and freight services. The photo, below, of 2403 at York, showing this loco with its 8-wheel tender is also, therefore, probably post 1934.

 

For a locomotive by now - late 1934 or later - 'demoted' from its intended, high profile role, this one looks to be in very clean external condition

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

York Shed 2403.jpg

Edited by mikemeg
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As a finale to this, here are a couple more photos of Raven Pacifics, including one of 2400 in North Eastern livery and markings, then unnamed. Both photos courtesy of Mick Nicholson.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

A2 at KINGS CROSS .jpg

2402 City of York, at York..jpg

Edited by mikemeg
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Isn't the picture of 2400 in North Eastern livery with a dynomometer car test from Kings X ?

Feel sure I've seen that (or very similar) published somewhere

Edited by Ken.W
Typo - loco number
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29 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

Isn't the picture of 2401 in North Eastern livery with a dynomometer car test from Kings X ?

Feel sure I've seen that (or very similar) published somewhere

Page 188 "An Illustrated History o NER Locomotives" by Ken Hoole. The photo is captioned " Author's collection"  

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13 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

Page 188 "An Illustrated History o NER Locomotives" by Ken Hoole. The photo is captioned " Author's collection"  

 

Thanks, although I don't have that book

 

Have found where I have seen it, RCTS 'green book' 2A fig.195. Captioned as trial from Kings X June 1923

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18 hours ago, Ken.W said:

Isn't the picture of 2401 in North Eastern livery with a dynomometer car test from Kings X ?

Feel sure I've seen that (or very similar) published somewhere

 

I believe  that this photo has been published a few times and yes, I believe this was a dynamometer test, from Kings Cross, in June of 1923. The locomotive is actually 2400, which was the only one of the Raven Pacifics actually completed pre 1923. Even then, 2400 was still in works grey in December 1922. 2401 first ran in January 1923.

 

I wonder who the three gents, stood by the loco's cab, might have been?

 

Mick Nicholson, from whom this photo was received, was a long time friend of Ken Hoole through their researching of the history of the North Eastern Railway. Mick also co-authored a number of books with the late Willlie Yeadon, especially on the railways of Hull. Mick and his associates continue to reearch both the North Eastern and the Hull & Barnsley, which was absorbed into the NER in 1922.

 

Anyway, here's a photo of yet another of this class of five, again from Mick Nicholson's collection.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

A2 2401 City of Kingston upon Hull .jpg

Edited by mikemeg
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Just as a postscript to this particular subject - The Raven Pacifics. My old mate Mick Nicholson now spends much of his time acquiring, renovating and then electronically cataloguing and storing these images. Many of these photographs, including some from renowned collections, only exist as a single print and often that print is worn, foxed and faded.

 

Mick has perfected techniques, using some of the commercially available software, to restore these images to pristine or near pristine condition, so that they may be preserved for posterity. Often, they are the only record we have of times, events and machines which have long since passed into history.

 

I hope I am not venturing too far 'outside the topic envelope' by showing some of these images on this thread. But, as Mick often says, 'these pictures can never, ever be taken again'.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited by mikemeg
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1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

Just as a postscript to this particular subject - The Raven Pacifics. My old mate Mick Nicholson now spends much of his time acquiring, renovating and then electronically cataloguing and storing these images. Many of these photographs, including some from renowned collections, only exist as a single print and often that print is worn, foxed and faded.

 

Mick has perfected techniques, using some of the commercially available software, to restore these images to pristine or near pristine condition, so that they may be preserved for posterity. Often, they are the only record we have of times, events and machines which have long since passed into history.

 

I hope I am not venturing too far 'outside the topic envelope' by showing some of these images on this thread. But, as Mick often says, 'these pictures can never, ever be taken again'.

 

Is Mike depositing his collection, both physical and digital, with an appropriate archive? (In this case, presumably the NERA / Darlington Railway Museum Ken Hoole Study Centre?)

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6 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Just as a postscript to this particular subject - The Raven Pacifics. My old mate Mick Nicholson now spends much of his time acquiring, renovating and then electronically cataloguing and storing these images. Many of these photographs, including some from renowned collections, only exist as a single print and often that print is worn, foxed and faded.

 

Mick has perfected techniques, using some of the commercially available software, to restore these images to pristine or near pristine condition, so that they may be preserved for posterity. Often, they are the only record we have of times, events and machines which have long since passed into history.

 

I hope I am not venturing too far 'outside the topic envelope' by showing some of these images on this thread. But, as Mick often says, 'these pictures can never, ever be taken again'.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Far from it Mike they are all very interesting and contribute to the topic. Would more images of these interesting Pacific's in operation in Scotland be of interest for the thread?

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17 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Far from it Mike they are all very interesting and contribute to the topic. Would more images of these interesting Pacific's in operation in Scotland be of interest for the thread?

 

Thanks for the kind words and yes, absolutely. Feel free to post any images which you think would contribute to the thread. So photos of these 'interesting Pacifics' in Scotland would be most welcome.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

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On 23/01/2021 at 11:04, mikemeg said:

Here's a rare photo though you might ask 'Why would a photo of one of Raven's Pacifics be rare?'  Mid way through their lives - 1929 - two of Raven's Pacifics were ftted with Gresley A1 boilers and this is one of them.

 

The Gresley boiler probably improved their appearance, though if they'd driven on the centre driving wheels, rather than the front set, then their appearance would have been considerably improved. Same is/was certainly true for the B16's.

 

As an aside, thanks to my old mate Mick Nicholson, I now have photos of all five of the Raven Paciifics, including a very rare shot of the first one -2400 - unnamed and in North Eastern livery and markings, at Kings Cross. Given that the first one only entered traffic in December 1922, then this could be a rare photo.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

A2 2404..jpg

 

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