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Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER


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11 hours ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

Hello Mike, on the subject of ex NER tank engines, here is a scratch built class U in EM gauge.   I built it for a friend over thirty years ago, painted and lined by Steve Barnfield.  It ran like a Swiss watch but my  friend decided he didn’t want it, so I kept it and so glad I did.  It was a very popular engine with my co -operators on Kirkby Malham mk 1, a small layout I used to hawk around the shows. mainly in the north and midlands.

The pic is of it on my old Canal Road layout, now partially scrapped

 

B5E9A837-72AA-4C99-A617-DF8EEF97E65A.jpeg.2f693ac7ce9c39c229414d430ddc0333.jpeg

 

Two more pics on Canal Road

 

6ADE5B95-612C-4548-8FD4-EB08E70DBBD4.jpeg.b946f1a9474a240ca52e7ad05e60de84.jpeg

 

C8A6BA55-7B60-43A6-A953-18510C9EF760.jpeg.a44b63ead8d9f1bdb934eeabbed68fd3.jpeg

 

The tracks to the right of the signal signal and telegraph post in the middle picture are my youngest sons 00, the ones to the left, my EM.

Derek

 

 

 

Hi Derek,

 

Many thanks for this posting. The NER Class U looks a lovely model and the photos of Canal Road really do express the essence of the old North Eastern Railway very well.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

11 hours ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

!

 

Derek, I hope you haven't choked on that.

 

Or, perhaps, the old Midland Railway; looking more closely at the signal and signal box! Apologies for the error but still a great looking layout!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

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20 minutes ago, Mrkirtley800 said:

Sorry Mike, I am a dyed in the wool Midland man.  However, all my layouts have been based in the Yorkshire Dales, the stamping ground of both Midland and NER.

Derek

 

Hi Derek,

 

Best of several worlds! Ilkley always appealed as a model location for the same reason. Have to say, the combination of Midland Red and Saxony Green liveries would have been hard to resist.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

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13 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Is that a drawing of the LNER top on the NER frames?

No not the specific case. Isinglass Drawing No 404 deals with the GCR rebuilt tenders, the tanks were designed at Darlington in 1946 -  Drawing 16964 - signed off by Peppercorn. The quoted external dimensional  are the same as a NER 4125 gal tender making them suitable for the NER 3940 gal frames. Photographic would appear to confirm that replacement tanks to this design were used for the NER 3940 gal rebuilds. So stick the GCR rebuilt tender onto  a 3940 gal underframe and there you have it. Were the tanks new or recycled? in 1946 there were steel shortages.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Isinglass Drawing No 404, showing the tank fitted to the GCR tenders, shows the overall dimensions to be the same as those of the NER 4125 gallon tank. However, the front curves on the tender coping plates of this GCR tender replacement are noticeably different in profile to the front curves of the tender shown in the photo below, so not a direct match.

 

 Thanks to Arthur, we have now identified and located the actual LNER drawing for these D20 tender rebuilds residing in the NRM archives. This drawing is a different date and number from No 16964, referenced above, and appears to precede it. So, once a copy of this drawing is sourced, then this should answer most of the questions and should allow a 4 mm drawing and model to be made.

 

I did check the footplate width of the D20 locomotive, which is 8' 0". If I enlarge the photo of 62343, shown below, it appears that the tender drag beam is slightly wider than the loco footplate, which would suggest that the tender drag beam and footplate may have been 8' 6"; we shall see!

 

Thanks also to 'Pebbles' who has provided much valuable input.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

62343_D20_SEL19560700p3011.jpg

Edited by mikemeg
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16 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Quite a few of us will be very interested to see a 4mm drawing.  

 

Is this a commercial opportunity? Perhaps another organisation selling 4 mm drawings; 'Wineinglass' perhaps.

 

Thanks and regards

 

MIke

 

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On 28/02/2021 at 11:19, mikemeg said:

The Isinglass Drawing No 404, showing the tank fitted to the GCR tenders, shows the overall dimensions to be the same as those of the NER 4125 gallon tank. However, the front curves on the tender coping plates of this GCR tender replacement are noticeably different in profile to the front curves of the tender shown in the photo below, so not a direct match.

 

 Thanks to Arthur, we have now identified and located the actual LNER drawing for these D20 tender rebuilds residing in the NRM archives. This drawing is a different date and number from No 16964, referenced above, and appears to precede it. So, once a copy of this drawing is sourced, then this should answer most of the questions and should allow a 4 mm drawing and model to be made.

 

I did check the footplate width of the D20 locomotive, which is 8' 0". If I enlarge the photo of 62343, shown below, it appears that the tender drag beam is slightly wider than the loco footplate, which would suggest that the tender drag beam and footplate may have been 8' 6"; we shall see!

 

Thanks also to 'Pebbles' who has provided much valuable input.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

62343_D20_SEL19560700p3011.jpg

Great photograph! A question not to do with the locomotive but the general scene. The huge pile on the left hand side, is that coal? If so, for the loco?

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Chris,

 

That huge pile on the photo! I'm not sure where this photo was taken, nor when. Certainly, in mid 1950 this loco was allocated to 50D - Starbeck in Harrogate  and was one of eight D20's allocated there at this time, along with twelve D49's and thirteen J39's. That said, this photo seems to show the loco carrying a 50C - Selby - shedplate; so was the photo taken in Selby shed or anywhere else that this loco may have got to, at that time?

 

At this time, mid 1950, Starbeck's total allocation was some forty five locomotives. I only have very scant records of the layout of this shed, at this time (mid 1950), so cannot elicit whether the shed had a mechanical coaler or the older North Eastern coaling stage. Selby did have a mechanical coaler. In both cases it's reasonable to assume that loco coal would arrive and be stored in dedicated loco coal wagons.

 

If the photo were taken in either Selby or Starbeck, my guess would be that the visible pile wasn't loco coal, just piled up alongside one of the shed roads. My guess would be that was an accumulation of ash, clinker and muck, rather than loco coal.

 

I've seen photographs taken in Selby shed (50C) and a number of other ex North Eastern sheds, around this time, and great piles of muck, ash, clinker seem to be quite common. 

 

If nothing else, the photo illustrates one of the problems associated with running and servicing steam locos, much as we loved them; they generated loads of muck!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited by mikemeg
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I'm approaching the end of my 'tender fest' with the completion of six of them. So, not a lot to post re their construction as they're pretty well all the same.

 

So another old photo - home while the sun's still up - of one of the A6's; this one just before its withdrawal. The loco is weathered to represent the state in which it might have appeared at withdrawal but the sun (and that is natural light) makes it appear a little cleaner. 

 

The photo was actually lit by reflecting the sunlight back onto the railway, at a very low angle, with a big old mirror to simulate the late evening long shadows. Kind of appropriate!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P1030001.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
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Or perhaps this one -  Big tanks on the up slow line. I never saw any of these big ex North Eastern tanks, in my loco spotting days, so this is the nearest I can get to 'living those days'.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3160001.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
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7 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Chris,

 

That huge pile on the photo! I'm not sure where this photo was taken, nor when. Certainly, in mid 1950 this loco was allocated to 50D - Starbeck in Harrogate  and was one of eight D20's allocated there at this time, along with twelve D49's and thirteen J39's. That said, this photo seems to show the loco carrying a 50C - Selby - shedplate; so was the photo taken in Selby shed or anywhere else that this loco may have got to, at that time?

 

At this time, mid 1950, Starbeck's total allocation was some forty five locomotives. I only have very scant records of the layout of this shed, at this time (mid 1950), so cannot elicit whether the shed had a mechanical coaler or the older North Eastern coaling stage. Selby did have a mechanical coaler. In both cases it's reasonable to assume that loco coal would arrive and be stored in dedicated loco coal wagons.

 

If the photo were taken in either Selby or Starbeck, my guess would be that the visible pile wasn't loco coal, just piled up alongside one of the shed roads. My guess would be that was an accumulation of ash, clinker and muck, rather than loco coal.

 

I've seen photographs taken in Selby shed (50C) and a number of other ex North Eastern sheds, around this time, and great piles of muck, ash, clinker seem to be quite common. 

 

If nothing else, the photo illustrates one of the problems associated with running and servicing steam locos, much as we loved them; they generated loads of muck!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Thanks Mike. 

 

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10 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Chris,

 

 

 

At this time, mid 1950, Starbeck's total allocation was some forty five locomotives. I only have very scant records of the layout of this shed, at this time (mid 1950), so cannot elicit whether the shed had a mechanical coaler or the older North Eastern coaling stage. Selby did have a mechanical coaler. In both cases it's reasonable to assume that loco coal would arrive and be stored in dedicated loco coal wagons.

 

 

 

Hello Mike

That comment about coal facilities at Starbucks got me thinking - because I couldn’t remember any reference to them.

 

So I had a quick rummage around my books and found this quote  “..and tipping coal hoisted on to the tenders by a steam crane, which was of considerable age, but remained in use until closure of the depot”. The quote was from a Starbeck locoman who started there in 1938.

 

The quote is in Railways around Harrogate Volume 3.

 

Jon

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9 hours ago, mikemeg said:

I'm approaching the end of my 'tender fest' with the completion of six of them. So, not a lot to post re their construction as they're pretty well all the same.

 

So another old photo - home while the sun's still up - of one of the A6's; this one just before its withdrawal. The loco is weathered to represent the state in which it might have appeared at withdrawal but the sun (and that is natural light) makes it appear a little cleaner. 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P1030001.JPG

 

Edited by micknich2003
Mike, obviously a trick of the light or an optical illusion, the leading wheel of the front bogie appears to be flngless.
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13 hours ago, micknich2003 said:

 

Mick,

 

Certainly looks like it is flangeless; though the front bogie wheels do have flanges. It is just a trick of the light.

 

I've now just about finished 'restoring' the railway after its storage in the garage, so next time I set up the big tanks on the up slow, there'll be a few more.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited by mikemeg
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Most of my photo collection consists of black and white copies, many courtesy of Mick Nicholson. Colour photographs from the days of steam are comparatively rare, except for the last few years. So this photo, from 1955, is just that; something of a rarity. I'm also puzzled as to the type of train which this D20 is pulling into York, given the lamping. Perhaps Mick, from whose collection this is posted, could help with identifying what type of train this might be. 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

D20 62378. York 1955 .jpg

Edited by mikemeg
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On 03/03/2021 at 12:08, mikemeg said:

I'm approaching the end of my 'tender fest' with the completion of six of them. So, not a lot to post re their construction as they're pretty well all the same.

 

So another old photo - home while the sun's still up - of one of the A6's; this one just before its withdrawal. The loco is weathered to represent the state in which it might have appeared at withdrawal but the sun (and that is natural light) makes it appear a little cleaner. 

 

The photo was actually lit by reflecting the sunlight back onto the railway, at a very low angle, with a big old mirror to simulate the late evening long shadows. Kind of appropriate!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P1030001.JPG

That's a very effective and interesting technique Mike; I really struggle with lighting of photos and tend to resort to the garden and outside daylight, so I'l have to try this.

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12 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

That's a very effective and interesting technique Mike; I really struggle with lighting of photos and tend to resort to the garden and outside daylight, so I'l have to try this.

 

Chas,

 

The technique was almost dictated by and discovered by accident, by the characteristics of my previous railway room in that it had a velux window which was 'in the wrong place' for using the sunlight, other than at midday, when the sun was at its height and when the shadows were at their shortest.

 

Stored in a corner of said railway room was an old mirror, one of those full length 'lean to' mirrors. I'd tried lighting the photo subjects with daylight lamps which was quite effective but limited in scope. Anyway, I leaned the mirror against a wall lengthways, adjusted the pitch of the lean and bingo, a sheet of reflected light around six foot long and four feet wide and it's real sunlight.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

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