Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[micklner]

2 hours ago, Mike Megginson said:

 

Mick,

 

Most of the coupling rods, on Arthur's kits, consist of two full thickness nickel silver etched layers (2 x .015") often plus two half etched layers at the journals (1 x .015") which can give a total thickness, at the journals of > .045"; more than 1.0 mm. I've tried using the standard Gibson crankpin collets but the journals have to be thinned far too much. So I now use the longer collets, suitably filed down to shorten them, on all models with etched rods. Obviously where both a coupling rod and connecting rod are attached, then the longer collets are used as supplied.

 

I always buy the crankpin screws, collets and crankpin nuts separately rather than the crankpin sets, which only contain the shorter collets.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

So no difference  to sideplay ?  I will bear it in mine for future kits.

 

All the Gibson Crankpins sets, I have ever bought always have at least two long collets in the bag. I have quite a few unused long ones  in a bag now, from previous builds.

 

From the current Gibson catalogue listing.

"The packs contain sufficient components for 4, 6 or 10 wheels -including two long bushes (4 for 4M42) for crankpins which require coupling and connecting rods to be fitted. "

 

cheers

 

Mick

[Mike Megginson]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The new roof, from the latest etches, has been assembled and checked for fit against the cab front and rear. This seems to fit just fine. Again, even though I had made a smokebox on the first superstructure build, I assembled this sub-assembly from the latest etches, which have a modified smokebox wrapper. Assembles and fits just fine.

 

The left hand brake linkage has been assembled (well so has the right hand assembly though this is invisible) and fitted. Here I made a modification to the rear brake pull rod, which I also made on the three G5's which I built a year or two ago. On the actual prototype the rear brake pull rod includes a length adjuster, which allowed the distance between the brake blocks and the wheels to be adjusted by effectively lengthening or shortening the length of the rear pull rod, which also moved the front pull rod. This was a length of tube with screw threads inside of it so a suitable length of 1/16th brass tube was cut, slightly reduced in diameter and then the pull rod split and re-joined inside the tube. Makes a difference to the look of the brake linkage.

 

Anyway, I'm now well beyond the stage reached on the first build so I am now on 'new ground' with this test build, as I start to do the detailing of the superstructure, including 'plumbing in' the Westinghouse pump!

 

Before anyone asks, yes. I prime every piece wherever possible, prior to assembly. This includes the brakes, brake linkage, etc. Helps enormously with the final painting and weathering.

 

As always, a photograph to check the work and the buffer nearest the camera, needs straightening!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mike Megginson

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

 The last of the larger etches to be added are the footplate steps. These have been assembled and fitted both to check their locations and to check the compatibility of radii between the front steps and the front carrying wheels.

 

Anyway, now having assembled the major etched parts, time to add the castings and smaller etched details.

 

All of these locos had been withdrawn by 1938 so my usual practice of painting and weathering the loco models to the decrepit state of the post war railway (mid 1950) will have to be replaced by a reasonably clean and well maintained appearance as befitted the pre-war years, for this one.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[MarkC]

What a superb model that is, Mike/Arthur. I'm very much looking forward to building mine in due course

 

Mark

[mikemeg]

On 03/08/2021 at 08:16, MarkC said:

What a superb model that is, Mike/Arthur. I'm very much looking forward to building mine in due course

 

Mark

 

Mark,

 

Many thanks for the kind words. As this is a test build then the effort has all been directed at proving the etches and the fit of the main components, so a lot of the detailing has been left till last, as we know those small details will fit.

 

This has been, and is, one of the most rewarding test builds that I've done for Arthur, not least because he has pulled out all the stops to get this one checked out and into production as soon as possible. 

 

I'm now accumulating quite a collection of  loco types which were all withdrawn before my chosen modelling period (June 1950) - B15, Q5/2, F8, Tennant  - so I can see a burgeoning preservation movement having been formed around the mid 1930's.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by mikemeg

[MarkC]

5 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

Mark,

 

Many thanks for the kind words. As this is a test build then the effort has all been directed at proving the etches and the fit of the main components, so a lot of the detailing has been left till last, as we know those small details will fit.

 

This has been, and is, one of the most rewarding test builds that I've done for Arthur, not least because he has pulled out all the stops to get this one checked out and into production as soon as possible. 

 

I'm now accumulating quite a collection of  loco types which were all withdrawn before my chosen modelling period (June 1950) - B15, Q5/2, F8, Tennant  - so I can see a burgeoning preservation movement having been formed around the mid 1930's.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Credit where it's due, Mike and Arthur A Class A/F8 is a bit of a "missing link" (Falcon Brass/Jidenco notwithstanding) for us NER/early LNER modellers, and she just looks right.

 

Mark

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The mainframe sections, above the footplate have now been assembled, after pressing out the bolt heads in the etch. These mainframe 'extensions' locate into slots in the footplate and into slots in the bottom of the smokebox sides. I have to confess, that I did remove the tabs which locate into the bottom of the smokebox, just so that I could continue to slide out and remove the smokebox/boiler assembly, which would otherwise have been 'trapped' onto the footplate.

 

The front carrying wheel springs have also been fitted, after cleaning up the castings and checking the spacing of the spring shackles against the etched holes in the footplate, which check out perfectly.

 

There are more drillings which need to be done on the smokebox, namely those for the two globe lubricators, one each side and a further one on the left hand side of the smokebox (looking forward), below the globe lubricator, for some of the Westinghouse pump 'plumbing'. All of these additional drillings are on the centre line of the smokebox 

 

So now, perhaps, it does begin to resemble an F8. Quite a bit of detailing still to do, but the basic structure is now all there.

 

It never ceases to amaze at just how clean and uncluttered these Victorian locomotive designs were; just elegantly simple!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[Dave Holt]

Very neat construction, Mike. As always.

Dave.

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

 

So now down to all of the fiddly bits which constitute the detailing.  The firebox washout plugs have been fitted; the top lamp iron has been fitted and the smokebox/boiler side handrails have been fitted. On these boiler handrails I now always superglue the stanchions into holes in the boiler, rather than solder them. This does give time to adjust the levelling and the handrail distance from the boiler wrapper, before the glue finally sets.

 

All of the additional drillings in the smokebox have now been done, though not yet opened out to their final size to take the globe lubricator castings and various pipes.

 

A quick digital photo to check that the handrail is straight and level - the handrails still have to be cut to their correct lengths - and the whistles are both straight, before continuing and this one taken from footplate level to try and convey an impression of size on what is, after all, just a 4mm/1 ft scale model.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

On 06/08/2021 at 20:39, Dave Holt said:

Very neat construction, Mike. As always.

Dave.

 

Dave,

 

Many thanks for the kind words. There are many modellers on here, especially in this topic area, whose work is inspirational and it is those modellers who are the encouragement to continue to improve, to refine and to strive for whatever level of perfection is ultimately achievable.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

More details added, most notably the smokebox door. Now I have to fabricate a smokebox door handle and add the last small etches and more handrails,  a few more castings and then do all of the 'plumbing' for the Westinghouse pump, vacuum pipes, etc.

 

Now, perhaps, this is unmistakeably an F8.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

For anyone wondering when this model is likely to be completed, I should say that a few issues still remain to be resolved such that amended artwork has been produced from which new etches for the superstructure are being produced.

 

Thus there will be a third build of the superstructure only, though utilising the boiler/smokebox plus all fittings, the cab roof plus fittings, and existing castings from the second build, represented by the photo above.

 

The chassis, motion, etc.; everything below the footplate as shown above, will also be re-used on the next build.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Ages ago someone asked me, on here, how I organise and build the pick ups on my loco models. Well there is no one answer to that question because it does depend on the type of loco. I've tried tender pick ups, plunger pick ups mounted inside the mainframes and sprung pick ups located under the mainframes.

 

For tank locos, where some or all of the driving wheels sit under and 'inside' the side tanks, I always use the same basic design of pick ups. Certainly on Arthur's North Eastern Kits and on London Road Models kits of tank locos there is quite a lot of space between the tops of the wheels and the inside of the tanks, which can be utilised.

 

Anyway, I'm now in the process of fitting pick ups to the N10 chassis, built a few weeks ago, so a chance to demonstrate the approach.

 

So on all of the tank locos, the first step is to build plasticard 'mounting blocks' which are superglued to the insides of the mainframes and are thus totally invisible, with the loco superstructure fitted. These are essentially in lieu of the fibre/metal strips used by some builders. These blocks are normally several layers thick and therefore relatively strong and durable. It is essential to keep the width of these blocks less than or equal to the distance over the wheelset to avoid fouling the tank sides.

 

All of the 'metal work' for the pick ups will, eventually, be fixed to these mounting blocks, using superglue or 12 BA screws, which means that all of the soldering has to be done before the pick up assembly can be fixed to its plastic mounting block.

 

The photo below shows the mounting blocks for the pick ups on the rear and middle driving wheels. I left the rear motor shaft on here, to accept a small flywheel if space allowed, which it doesn't!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

While awaiting the revised set of etches for the F8, I decided to catch up on some 'servicing' of the existing fleet of locos. Nothing very involved, just cleaning the wheels, adjusting and cleaning pick-ups, a touch of oil on the wheel bearings and a touch of silicone grease on the gears, where necessary.

 

Anyway, in a couple of days I did some twelve of the tank locos on Hessle Haven, checking each one by running it up and down the 'up fast line' on one of the layout boards at various speeds. I aim for a slow running capability down to around a scale 2 - 3 mph which most of them will do. Once checked, then I marshalled each loco at one end of that same baseboard, using the down slow and down fast as loco sidings.

 

So a photo of around half of the 'tankies' on the layout - 3 x A6, J71, 2 x J72, J73, 3 x J77, N10 and T1. The J72's are Bachmann conversions with High Level chassis' and one of the A6's and the T1 are scratch builds. Everything else - 2 x A6, J71, J73, 3 x J77, N10 -  is built from various of Arthur's kits.

 

From this photographing distance they all look very similar in colour and, they are; they're all black. But varying shades of black and with varying levels of weathering and rusting not really discernable at this distance.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The next set of etches have duly arrived from Arthur representing a very quick turn around by the etchers. A few dimensioning issues have been corrected on the cab window cut out and on the strip of cab sheeting between the cab window and the cab roof. 

 

I normally keep both sides together - as per the photograph - to remove as much of the cusp as possible before separating them. Once separated, then that very narrow strip at the top of the cab window becomes quite vulnerable to deforming through handling

 

Now to check the cab window beading to check that it will still fit the slightly deepened cab window opening. I always shape this beading on its own to achieve as good a fit as possible, prior to any soldering into the cab window opening, rather than trying to force the profile during the soldering operation. Seems to have worked!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Well, off we go again with the assembly of the superstructure for the F8. The cab window opening has been re-profiled; the distance from the top of the cab window to the roof has been reduced and I think the loco now rides at the correct height though the model is not yet balanced across the two sets of carrying wheels. The front carrying wheels are mounted in compensated horn blocks, which will allow this balancing to be achieved; the rear carrying wheels are simply mounted directly into the carrying truck.

 

Later in this build I will assemble and test the latest version of the chassis which now allows for more options as to how the chassis is configured.

 

So, hopefully, by the end of tomorrow I should have reached the same stage as the photo posted two or three above.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Anyone who has followed any of the various builds, covered in this thread, will know that doing these test builds involves an awful lot of checking, often with parts or sub-assemblies simply resting in place. So here's another of those checks with the cab front simply resting in its slots and the boiler assembly and roof assembly just resting in place. So if there are any gaps it is simply that nothing has been fitted as yet.

 

What we're seeking to establish, with these set up photographs, is whether (or not) the model captures the essence of the prototype. Does everything seem to be in proportion, are the ratios of height to depth and width about right? Does the model look like the photographs of the real thing

 

On these F8 builds, one or two readers of the thread have commented on various features which they felt were not right. It is those critically objective comments which cause the etches and artwork to be re-examined to check those features and to be re-done if those comments prove to be correct.

 

Anyway, here's another of those set up photos using some of the latest etches and some of the sub-assemblies from the second build, which can be re-used.

 

That extra 1 and a bit mm added to the depth of the cab window cut out has made an enormous difference to the look of the model!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

Hello, Mike. The cab-front windows look too low and too far over to the side (i.e. too far apart). 

[micklner]

Did they vary? Look at the photos on here

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/F/f8.php

 

They both appear to have different postions ? to my eyes at least !.

 

420's Cab Front Window looks higher and/or larger , than 1538's in the lower photo of the two photos.

Edited September 10, 2021 by micklner

[Daddyman]

4 minutes ago, micklner said:

Did they vary? Look at the photos on here

 

https://www.lner.info/locos/F/f8.php

 

They both appear to have different postions ? to my eyes at least !.

 

420's Cab Front Window looks higher and/or larger , than 1538's in the lower photo of the two photos.

I think it's just the effect of the lining, Mick. 

[mikemeg]

On 10/09/2021 at 17:04, Daddyman said:

Hello, Mike. The cab-front windows look too low and too far over to the side (i.e. too far apart). 

 

David,

 

Here is the best F8 photo we could find illustrating the cab front.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[Daddyman]

I'm not convinced, Mike. The top of the boiler on the model goes through the centre line of the windows, whereas on the real thing it (the boiler top line) intercepts about a third of the way up the window. Remember there has to be the flange on the back of the firebox/front of the cab joint, with still a gap between the window frame and the flange, but the model appears to offer no space for that. There's also too much "forehead" above the window, possibly a result of the cab roof radius being wrong? 

[Asterix2012]

Having just taken a look through the photos in the Yeadon volume I have to agree with David.

 

The window appears too low

 

Perhaps also a bit small?

[ArthurK]

 

In my defence of the F8, comparing model dimensions from a model photo with  photo of the real thing can be very deceptive. A lot depends on the  viewpoint and distance.

 

Yes. I freely admit that in Mike's build (as featured in the' Scalefour' Forum) the cab cutout was wrong. This now  conforms to the  dimensions quoted on the GA, As does the curvature of the cab roof. 

 

On the subject of cab round windows every drawing that gives the size of  these gives the same dimension 1' 3 3/4". This is size of the actual hole in the cab front sheet. There is never a bezel shown, the Windows (with few exceptions opened into the cab with the window frame (brass) fitting into the hole). it  would appear from some photographs that the frame protruded ahead of the cab front sheet on some but that was by no means universal. I provide two inlays to the windows which can  used to give a flush or slightly protruding appearance,

 

The height of the cab windows did not vary much between large and small locos. Drivers would expect them to be much the same on all. The distance between them did not vary a great deal either.  

 

ArthurK

Edited September 10, 2021 by ArthurK
Grammar

[Daddyman]

Can't the cab front window positions and roof radius just be taken from a G5? Or isn't it that simple?