Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[Pebbles]

41 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Can't the cab front window positions and roof radius just be taken from a G5? Or isn't it that simple? 

This is very useful as I wasn't aware that the G5 was in Mr Kimber's range of kits.

[Daddyman]

9 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

This is very useful as I wasn't aware that the G5 was in Mr Kimber's range of kits.

I don't think it is - sorry to mislead you. I was just asking if the LRM kit or drawings of the G5 could help ascertain positions of the cab-front windows. 

[Pebbles]

54 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

I don't think it is - sorry to mislead you. I was just asking if the LRM kit or drawings of the G5 could help ascertain positions of the cab-front windows. 

Sorry about the misunderstanding, from your experience can you recommend the LRM G5 as being an accurate model?

[Daddyman]

59 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

Sorry about the misunderstanding, from your experience can you recommend the LRM G5 as being an accurate model?

Mike's the one to ask as he has built several. If I recall, the radii in the cab apertures may be a bit off; the main problem though is the castings - dome, chimney and safety valve trumpet in particular, and the lack of alternative fittings to cover later periods. 

 

 

[ArthurK]

I am currentlly looking at all the evidence that I have relating  to position of  the round cab windows in  NER cabs.

The J71 and J72  are  easy, I have  dimensioned  drawings of those. They are 4' 4" apart and 5' 3"  above the  footplate but it is surprising how many others use these dimensions. Perhaps this i s not  so surprising if one  remembers that they have to provide vision for enginemen whether tall and short.  For example the T1 surely  a big engine would be different. Well yes it is the windows a re 1" higher but the  same distance apart.

 

Taking these are a standard then the windows on my F8 are too high by just 1mm in 4mm  scale.

 

Unfortunately the normal GA does not show front views.

 

I hope that this is  useful.

 

ArthurK

[Pebbles]

8 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Mike's the one to ask as he has built several. If I recall, the radii in the cab apertures may be a bit off; the main problem though is the castings - dome, chimney and safety valve trumpet in particular, and the lack of alternative fittings to cover later periods. 

 

 

Thank you for that useful information.

[JoeF]

To me, the cab lookouts look fine on all the earlier photos, it's only on the latest there appears to be a problem. As the same cab front has been used then I feel it's a combination of camera angle/perspective distortion and an illusion caused by a strip of solder(?) on the cab front/sides joint.

 

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

After a few days off, wandering around Richmond (North Yorkshire) and Swaledale, it's back to the model of the F8.

 

The cab internals, attached to the bunker front, have been assembled and fitted So the locker, coal door and slides and sandboxes have all been attached to the front of the bunker as a sub-assembly. Before the cab rear is soldered into place, a chance to check the fit of the cab floor against the various items protruding into the cab.  Seems ok so the cab rear can now be fixed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Well, after almost a couple of weeks, though with a few days out, the third build has now reached the point where the second build was aborted. So, from here on in then we should be into 'new territory'!

 

The unfilled hole on the boiler, under the handrail stanchion, is to accommodate the clack valve; the one on the smokebox, directly under the globe lubricator, is to accommodate some of the 'plumbing' associated with the Westinghouse pump, which has yet to be fitted.

 

I'm beginning to feel that I know the F8, quite well!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS G5

 

Pebbles,

 

Below are a couple of photos of the three G5's which I built a couple of years ago. One of the models represents No 67340, which had extended tanks and which was the only one rebuilt in this way. The other two represent a couple of the variations in appearance which members of this class exhibited later in their lives. Some retained their Westinghouse pumps, some had the bunker cage and some had the bunker cage with a hopper fitted. Some were push and pull fitted, etc.

 

Even though this kit is now some thirty years old, it is still very relevant and, with a little extra detailing, makes up into a very convincing model.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Well I'm now into 'new territory' with this build as I start the final detailing. Most of this is 'plumbing' with the various pipes, pumps, valves, etc. and there is quite a lot of it.

 

So I won't post a 'step by step' on all of the detailing but I'll post just this one as the final phase of the build is started.

 

I still need to balance the loco, using the front carrying axle, which is compensated and can thus be slightly adjusted for height.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

Mike, what's the hole for (assuming it is a hole?) under the globe lubricator on the smokebox side?

[mikemeg]

Hi Chas,

 

Yes, tis indeed an 'ole'. There is a Westinghouse pump to be attached to the front of the left hand side tank - the one visible in the above photo of the model. Pipes go 'hither and thither' from this pump, one of which goes to the smokebox, hence the hole.

 

The same side of the cab front - the left hand side - has also had a drilling done to accept another pipe from the Westinghouse pump; the one that curves back on itself from the pump. The far side - right hand side - of the cab front was also drilled to accept the vacuum pipe from the smokebox to the cab.

 

Far easier to make these drillings when the cab front is 'in the flat' rather than when it is fitted into the loco superstructure.

 

The photo below shows the arrangement.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

Hi Chas,

 

Yes, tis indeed an 'ole'. There is a Westinghouse pump to be attached to the front of the left hand side tank - the one visible in the above photo of the model. Pipes go 'hither and thither' from this pump, one of which goes to the smokebox, hence the hole.

 

The photo below shows the arrangement.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

I'm presuming that that pipe is the steam exhaust - but it's all a bit of a "rats' nest" of pipework, isn't it! Definitely necessary though, with the pump being so obvious.

 

That's a superb photo for showing off the detailing, by the way.

 

You mentioned the leading axle being compensated, Mike. How's it been done, please? If I recall from upthread, the driving wheels are controlled by beams, so that's clear.

 

Mark

[Chas Levin]

14 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Hi Chas,

 

Yes, tis indeed an 'ole'. There is a Westinghouse pump to be attached to the front of the left hand side tank - the one visible in the above photo of the model. Pipes go 'hither and thither' from this pump, one of which goes to the smokebox, hence the hole.

 

The same side of the cab front - the left hand side - has also had a drilling done to accept another pipe from the Westinghouse pump; the one that curves back on itself from the pump. The far side - right hand side - of the cab front was also drilled to accept the vacuum pipe from the smokebox to the cab.

 

Far easier to make these drillings when the cab front is 'in the flat' rather than when it is fitted into the loco superstructure.

 

The photo below shows the arrangement.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

Thanks Mike, I should have thought of that, as I had to find out about and then make something similar myself recently. And as MarkC says, that is certainly a great photo.

Lovely job all round!

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The Westinghouse pump casting has been slightly modified to suit the F8 and a start has been made on the various pipes to and from this pump.

 

Chas, now you can see what that hole under the globe lubricator was for. Many more pipes still to fit to various parts of the loco, above and below the footplate!!

 

I've also restarted work on the London Road Models N8 using more of Arthur's castings - tank fillers, Ross pop valves, buffers, etc. - and some of the spare etches - smokebox lamp iron, coal door, tank front handrail brackets, etc. - from the various tank locos built over the last eight years. Often, Arthur provides spare/duplicated etched components on the frets, which are assiduously saved for later use.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

On 01/10/2021 at 14:03, mikemeg said:

Chas, now you can see what that hole under the globe lubricator was for. Many more pipes still to fit to various parts of the loco, above and below the footplate!!

Mike, yes indeed - very similar to one I fitted to the C2 I'm building.

Lovely work, beautifully neat pipework everywhere!

[mikemeg]

On 02/10/2021 at 15:30, Chas Levin said:

Mike, yes indeed - very similar to one I fitted to the C2 I'm building.

Lovely work, beautifully neat pipework everywhere!

 

Thanks Chas. There's probably more pipework on this model than on any other I've ever built, though one of the G5's, which was one which had retained its Westinghouse pump, right up until withdrawal - 67256 - comes a close second.

 

All of this pipework is not provided within the kit, as it is down to the individual builder as to how much detail is added to the model.

 

Strange that these Victorian locomotives, designed with such clean lines, should then be 'adorned' with this mass of 'weaving pipes'!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

On 02/10/2021 at 16:16, mikemeg said:

Strange that these Victorian locomotives, designed with such clean lines, should then be 'adorned' with this mass of 'weaving pipes'!!

Yes - and the Hornby RTR level of detail removes them and delivers cleaner lines, but at the obvious expense of greatly diminished realism.

I've always assumed the design of those clean lines was the province of a designer from the more art-oriented side of the fence, who then had to hand over what he'd done to his colleagues on the engineering side, so they could set to work adding things like piping, valves, tools, taps and so forth. 

I wonder if the original designers looked at the finished product and mourned their original vision...

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

When I test built the chassis for this model, I built it based on the limiting radii of my own layout, which are a minimum of 4' 6" radius on curves and minimum B7 on all point work. Thus I was pretty sure that the chassis for the F8, as initially designed, would easily traverse those curves without any fouling of the carrying wheels against the frames. On this first build, the chassis was, effectively, configured as an 0-6-2 with only the trailing carrying wheels able to swing. The front carrying wheels relied on side play to follow the curves.

 

Clearly this arrangement would not suit the tighter curves of many layouts, whether OO, EM or P4 and the absence of mainframe cut outs, for the carrying wheels, did not allow much 'swing' on the front or rear carrying wheels.

 

To cope with this, Arthur has re-designed the chassis, so that a much greater range of options can be exercised in assembling the chassis.

 

The driving wheels can still be assembled either rigid, using top hat bearings, or compensated using separate horn guides and axleboxes with compensating beams. That arrangement was provided in the first chassis design and is the one used in my chassis build.

 

The front and rear sets of carrying wheels can still be assembled without the provision of 'swinging' by utilising mainframe narrowing at both ends. Each mainframe can be narrowed by .030" by  use of one or two layers of mainframe packing. Each of the carrying axles can be built as rigid or can be compensated and pivoted on a central beam. Thus the wheels can be configured as an 0-8-0, relying on the increased side play of the narrowed frames to allow the carrying wheels to negotiate curves.

 

Additionally, or alternatively, pony trucks are provided for both front and rear carrying wheels, though again relying on the narrowing of the mainframe separation to provide the necessary clearance for the axle to swing. By this means the assembled chassis should be capable of negotiating much tighter curves.  So here, the wheels can be configured as a 2-6-0 or 0-6-2 - with one set of carrying wheels swinging - or as a 2-4-2 with both sets of carrying wheels swinging.

 

So a whole lot of options available.

 

The photo below shows the various parts of a single mainframe assembly, though I have already added the necessary components to provide compensation on the driving wheels.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

While I was in the 'chassis fabrication shop' on the F8, I thought I would tackle the chassis on the N8. As designed, the swinging of the rear carrying wheels is achieved by the whole of the rear section of the chassis, including the rear part of the mainframes, swinging; effectively an articulated chassis. This is to allow the model to traverse very tight curves, by allowing the carrying wheels to deflect far more than the mainframes would normally allow. As with the F8, there are no cut outs in the mainframes to allow for the deflection of the carrying wheels.

 

While this arrangement will definitely work, I just didn't like it, so decided to re-engineer the main frames so that they are each in only one piece and the deflection of the rear carrying wheels is facilitated by narrowing the separation between the rear part of the mainframes.

 

The point at which the mainframes are 'pinched in' will actually lie behind the cab footsteps so. from normal viewing angles, that transition should be invisible.

 

Anyway, the first frame has been modified and seems ok. The rear portion of the mainframe, as supplied, is slightly less deep than the remaining portion so this will need to be augmented once the mainframes are assembled but that should be relatively simple to achieve.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Still in the 'chassis fabrication shop', the revised mainframes for the F8 have been assembled. The 'pinched in sections' use spacers to achieve the reduction in frame separation, which are all located and lined up with slots and in the narrower end, a hole - visible in the lower mainframe around 1/3 of the way from the left hand end. Suitable pieces of 0.015" nickel silver offcuts ,pushed into the slots, line up the various layers, with a small broach pushed into the hole adding to the accuracy of the alignment.

 

Once the multiple layers are soldered up, the scrap pieces and broach are then removed. The locating slots can easily be filled, using small pieces of 0.5 mm wire pushed into the slots, soldered and then filed flat. The topmost mainframe, in the photo below, has been so treated.

 

The driving wheel springs, which are etched separately from the mainframes, are comprised of two layers of 0.015" nickel silver soldered together, so when assembled, they really do give the impression of the 'chunkiness' of these things!

 

Now to assemble these frames into a chassis.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LNER F8 AND LNER N8

 

After a day in the 'chassis fabrication shop', the mainframes for both the F8 and N8 are almost complete. I have run out of High Level axle guides and axle boxes, so the frames for the N8 will have to await new supplies. The frames for the F8 are now ready to be assembled into a chassis.

 

The modifications to the N8's main frames owe much to Arthur's design for the frames of the F8, but a good idea is always worth re-using, especially someone else's good idea!!

 

There is a bit of parallax on the photo below, hence the frames appearing to be slightly different lengths.

 

The photo of the model, a few postings above, does change as it 'magically' acquires more detail. I think we're now on the fourth iteration of this picture!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mikemeg

[Jol Wilkinson]

Mike,

 

you could fit radial trucks to the trailing axles.

 

LRM do one, which is listed at the bottom of  the LNWR loco section of the website as it is also used in several of the LNWR kits including the 4' 6" 2-4-2 Tank. It has etched guides which fit in the "standard" hornblock cut out.

 

This shows it in the (upside down) frames for the LNWR loco. The guides here are part of the frame but seperate etches for these are included in the "accessory" version

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Jol Wilkinson
Additional text and photo

[mikemeg]

15 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Mike,

 

you could fit radial trucks to the trailing axles.

 

LRM do one, which is listed at the bottom of  the LNWR loco section of the website as it is also used in several of the LNWR kits including the 4' 6" 2-4-2 Tank. It has etched guides which fit in the "standard" hornblock cut out.

 

This shows it in the (upside down) frames for the LNWR loco. The guides here are part of the frame but seperate etches for these are included in the "accessory" version

 

 

 

 

Jol,

 

Many thanks. That looks just the job for the N8.

 

I'm away for next week, in Cumbria walking the fells, but I'll order this from LRM as soon as I get back.

 

This is what makes this site so useful, for I had no idea that  LRM did this. So, once again, many thanks for the posting .

 

Regards

 

Mike