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Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER


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18 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Mike,

 

you could fit radial trucks to the trailing axles.

 

LRM do one, which is listed at the bottom of  the LNWR loco section of the website as it is also used in several of the LNWR kits including the 4' 6" 2-4-2 Tank. It has etched guides which fit in the "standard" hornblock cut out.

 

This shows it in the (upside down) frames for the LNWR loco. The guides here are part of the frame but seperate etches for these are included in the "accessory" version

 

464853297_Radialtruck1.jpg.5cf0284eb001ecabae249b17b02c5de2.jpg

 

 

Jol,

 

A couple of questions if I may.

 

Is the truck suitable for EM gauge.

 

Is the truck suitable for both a rigid chassis and a compensated chassis

 

Thank you

 

Richard

 

 

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Richard,

 

the radial truck etch can be assembled for 00, EM or P4 and is supplied with 2.0mm ID axle bearings.

 

It  has a slotted tab on one side that can be used with thin spring wire to lightly load and centralise the wheels so can be used with a rigid or compensated chassis like that.

 

I built the LNWR 2-4-2T with one rigid driving axle, one compensated on a fixed central point and both carrying axle radial trucks lightly sprung.

 

Jol

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12 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Richard,

 

the radial truck etch can be assembled for 00, EM or P4 and is supplied with 2.0mm ID axle bearings.

 

It  has a slotted tab on one side that can be used with thin spring wire to lightly load and centralise the wheels so can be used with a rigid or compensated chassis like that.

 

I built the LNWR 2-4-2T with one rigid driving axle, one compensated on a fixed central point and both carrying axle radial trucks lightly sprung.

 

Jol

Thank you Jol.

 

I understand now how to use the truck.

 

Richard

Edited by 18131r
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NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The chassis has now been assembled, with all frame spacers fitted and the various tabs cleaned up where soldered. The compensating beams have been fitted, mounted on two pieces of 1/16" tube, pivoted on a single piece of 0.8 mm rod, which is soldered into both mainframes. A quick check to ensure that all wheels move within their axle guides; which they do by up to around 1.0 mm and that upwards movement, on one wheel, results in downwards movement in its adjacent wheel.

 

The photo below shows how the narrowing of the main frame separation is achieved and how much narrowing there is. This feature is used on this chassis for OO, EM and P4 gauges. We still have to ascertain what minimum radius of curve this chassis will traverse, so an OO build is needed to estabish this.

 

So now to await some driving wheels and a suitable gearbox.

 

With one body and two working chassis', I think a second body might just have to be built, though perhaps I'll wait a few weeks.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

P1220023.JPG

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1 hour ago, Blandford1969 said:

It looks great, have you heard any more on the when you might be progressing with the Q7?

 

I keep plodding along with the Q7 but other things keep getting in the  way! I think that it's about 90% there but there is still the visible valve gear to  sort out. New castings are required for  the Piston valves and centre piston, also for front and rear sandboxes and of course  chimneys (two heights).

 

ArthurK

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On 07/10/2021 at 15:44, Jol Wilkinson said:

Mike,

 

you could fit radial trucks to the trailing axles.

 

LRM do one, which is listed at the bottom of  the LNWR loco section of the website as it is also used in several of the LNWR kits including the 4' 6" 2-4-2 Tank. It has etched guides which fit in the "standard" hornblock cut out.

 

This shows it in the (upside down) frames for the LNWR loco. The guides here are part of the frame but seperate etches for these are included in the "accessory" version

 

464853297_Radialtruck1.jpg.5cf0284eb001ecabae249b17b02c5de2.jpg

 

 

May I second this recommendation: I used one of these LRM radial truck etches recently, very simple and works beautifully!

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On 11/09/2021 at 18:07, ArthurK said:

I am currentlly looking at all the evidence that I have relating  to position of  the round cab windows in  NER cabs.

The J71 and J72  are  easy, I have  dimensioned  drawings of those. They are 4' 4" apart and 5' 3"  above the  footplate but it is surprising how many others use these dimensions. Perhaps this i s not  so surprising if one  remembers that they have to provide vision for enginemen whether tall and short.  For example the T1 surely  a big engine would be different. Well yes it is the windows a re 1" higher but the  same distance apart.

 

Taking these are a standard then the windows on my F8 are too high by just 1mm in 4mm  scale.

 

Unfortunately the normal GA does not show front views.

 

I hope that this is  useful.

 

ArthurK

The T1 you say those are hands down my favourite locomotives. i just like how big and impressive they look.  

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Even larger than the T1 4-8-0 tanks, were the A6 4-6-2 tanks. Anyone who has followed this thread, along the way, will know of my fondness for this class of locomotives; I now have four of them. The first of the A6's was a scratch build though I was never entirely happy with the chassis. When Arthur produced his kit for the A6 I took the opportunity to use his chassis etches on the scratch built body, so this is now a hybrid of scratch and kit building. This one is also something of a heavyweight, weighing in at around thirteen ounces and powered by a Mashima 1426 with a High Level 60 : 1 gearbox.

 

The other three A6's are all Arthur's kits including the first test build of the kit.

 

Anyway, taken in a fairly low light this photo tries to show just how 'broodily massive' these ex North Eastern big tanks really were.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Broodily Massive.JPG

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And this one is the first test build of Arthur's A6 kit, done quite a few years ago now. Finished in the first British Railways livery - unlined black.

 

I post the A6 pictures, every now and again, though if I post too many of them, then I fear that a build of  A6 model number five, which would be 69793, might be imminent!

 

This one - 69795 - remained as a saturated loco until its withdrawal in mid 1950. In fact, by the time of British Railways formation, every one of the nine surviving A6's - only ten were ever built - was different in a variety of details.

 

For me, big tank locos didn't get much better than the A6's!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P3170003.JPG

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2 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Even larger than the T1 4-8-0 tanks, were the A6 4-6-2 tanks. Anyone who has followed this thread, along the way, will know of my fondness for this class of locomotives; I now have four of them. The first of the A6's was a scratch build though I was never entirely happy with the chassis. When Arthur produced his kit for the A6 I took the opportunity to use his chassis etches on the scratch built body, so this is now a hybrid of scratch and kit building. This one is also something of a heavyweight, weighing in at around thirteen ounces and powered by a Mashima 1426 with a High Level 60 : 1 gearbox.

 

The other three A6's are all Arthur's kits including the first test build of the kit.

 

Anyway, taken in a fairly low light this photo tries to show just how 'broodily massive' these ex North Eastern big tanks really were.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Broodily Massive.JPG

I know exactly what you mean Mike.
I ended up with one of these lovely beasts after some chemo therapy. There is no way she would have turned up at Brewery Sidings shed, Manchester.
A massive application of Rule one, means that she works trip freights round Manchester,
This is a truly aesthetically pleasing design.
I love her!
Chris.

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NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Back on page 66 of this thread, I posted a photo of one of these locos - LNER No 128 - which, as someone pointed out, showed the detail around the boiler very well. So I set out to represent the 'rats nest' of piping around the Westinghouse pump as closely to the photo as I could.

 

I know that from normal viewing distance (3 feet?), all of these various pieces of wire of differing diameters and the valves on the pipes will be largely invisible but I know they're there, so on to the model they must go. Wherever possible I set the minimum acceptable viewing distance for a model, as the minimum distance at which the macro mode on the digital camera will focus; roughly nine inches away.

 

I'll leave it to the viewer to decide whether (or not) this has been done successfully.

 

I've also changed the chimney on this build, using one of Arthur's latest castings, which seems to match the prototype photos better. The cab doors have also been fitted leaving just a few handrails, more pipes, sandboxes, sandbox fillers and sand pipes to do.

 

So now, having checked out all of the etches, on to finish this build. Been a long one, this one, but well worth it!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

P2050018.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
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18 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

How are you getting on with your D20 with the tender with what looked like a J39 tender. The last comment was you had found a drawing?

 

Yes, the National Railway Museum has the original (or a copy of the original) General Arrangement Drawing for these tender rebuilds. As yet, I haven't acquired this drawing but once the F8 and N8 are out of the way then I'll order the drawing and set about a D20 with the rebuilt tender.

 

They also have the G A Drawing for the G5 with the extended tanks - 67340 - which would have been useful when I built the model of that locomotive.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

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NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The F8 taken from t'other side. I took this photo simply to check that the vacuum pipe looked like the prototype photo and that it lay level along the boiler, parallel with the handrail.

 

I did get diverted from this build, for a couple of days, investigating one of the Bachmann J72 conversions, which was 'frying' its motor.  Anyway I did have a replacement 1024 in the Mashima motor box, so that was fitted and all is well.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

P2100020.JPG

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NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

And then, just to spoil those uncluttered, flowing curves of the valances, pieces of 0.7 mm brass rod are bent up into various piping contortions and attached to the bottom of the valances.

 

The rear of the pipe does need to be a little closer to the buffer beam and the front portion, under the buffer beam, would also benefit from a slight 'tweak' but that's the purpose of taking these pictures; to highlight what still needs to be done.

 

Now that High Level Models have resolved their supply issues, I can now order the components (horn guides, axle boxes and gearbox) to complete the N8.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

P2140022.JPG

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Mike,

    Going back to the large NER tank locos, here is a shot of an A7, I built to 00 gauge, to run on our club layout and on my sons half of our home layout.

Built from a Little Engines kit, I fitted it with compensation, and the front bogie hung from a point in front of the bogie.  This arrangement, first seen in an old RM mag allows sharp curves to be negotiated without shorting on the cylinders.  It turned out to be a very reliable engine.

The pic taken on the now defunct Canal Road.

 

65707EC5-2FBA-4560-A09C-C1B3BBEDA403.jpeg.d5b2991278763343a0c0dae89b4b19aa.jpeg

 

Derek

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... the front bogie hung from a point in front of the bogie.  This arrangement, first seen in an old RM mag allows sharp curves to be negotiated without shorting on the cylinders.

 

I can't think why that arrangement isn't better known or more popular with these NER locos.   I built my C7 like that after a tip from Barry Oliver and it's never been a problem through curves or pointwork on Grantham or anywhere else I've run it.

 

 

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Thanks to Derek and Jonathan for the two postings above, re the pivoting of the front bogie. I notice that both contributors built the locos mentioned for 'OO' gauge.

 

Given that the cylinder spacing across the mainframes, in 'OO', should be the same as for EM or P4, then I guess it's reasonable to assume that there is more space available, between mainframe and the cylinder, for the bogie wheels to deflect on curves. Surely, also, much depends on the minimum radius which these models need to traverse and how much deflection of bogie and carrying wheels occurs on these curves. 

 

On my layout the minimum radius of curve is 4' 6" (B8 switches on turnouts/slips). On some of the models I've built there are no bogie wheel cut outs, so the mainframes have been 'pinched in' by around 0.75 mm each side to allow greater deflection of leading or trailing wheels. The D20 is a case in point, as is the N10 at its rear end. The F8 also employs this technique at both ends. Of course, none of these locos has outside cylinders so it is only fouling of the mainframes which is a potential problem.

 

However, with my minimum radii being 4'6" then fouling of the cylinders by the deflection of the bogie wheels isn't a problem which I need to consider as the bogie wheels will not deflect by a sufficiently large distance to cause the problem.

 

Hence on the big tanks with four wheel bogies, I have not needed to experiment with moving the bogie pivot point from anywhere other than the bogie centre. However, what I always do is to provide a slot, rather than a single hole, for the bogie pivot, which will allow  around 0.5  - 1.0 mm of lateral movement of the bogie on curves, so that the bogie wheels 'follow the curve'.

 

Regards to you both

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited by mikemeg
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Mike, I agree with what you say.  What I should have added is that on my sons layout I had to introduce a curve of about 2’3” radius.

I also built a GN large Atlantic to run on his layout, but on this occasion I split the bogie, with the front bogie axle running in a pony truck, and the rear axle in slots with a bit of side play.

I used this arrangement in an EM HR Jones goods 4-6-0 and that will take curves of under 3’ radius.

My Midland compounds and smaller 4-4-0s allhave the arrangement you described, with a slot in the bogie bolster and side springs.

Derek

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  • 3 weeks later...

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

A little way back in this thread, I covered the first part of building an LRM N8 from their kit, which was originally produced by George Norton, some thirty or so years ago. I did make some changes to the loco superstructure, with more to come but I also alluded to making some significant changes to the chassis. These changes were occasioned, not because it doesn't work - it does - but because I just didn't like the approach of making the entire rear portion, mainframes and all, as a swinging bogie. I also felt that the chassis was a little short of stretchers, as the ones supplied seemed barely adequate.

 

I couldn't proceed with this chassis until I received more hornguides and axleboxes from High Level Models, which I now have, so work has recommenced on this model.

 

Anyway the mainframes have been re-engineered with a 'pinched in' section at the rear. Additional mainframe stretchers have been added, of a much deeper configuration, and provision for the LRM radial truck has been fitted to the rear carrying axle. Provision for compensating beams, on the middle and rear driving axles, has also been made; the holes for the pivot are visible in the mainframes.

 

I still have to add some 'packing' to the rear section of the mainframes to bring the height of this section up to the same level as the rest of the mainframes. About 1.25 mm needs to be added.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P3020025.JPG

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