Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

J72's 'A Plenty'

 

Here is another of those 'composed' photos. Richard (30368) did remark that I have an ex NER tank loco habit which, of course, I do. Anyway here are three of the four J72's on the railway; two Bachmann conversions with High Level Models Chassis and one of North Eastern Kits models of the longer bunker version.

 

A fourth J72 is awaiting painting, representing one of the first twenty built with the original shorter bunker. As the models are all set in mid-1950, then both 69003 and 69010 would have been almost new as they were built by BR in 1949 - 1950.

 

Most of my photos, taken on the railway, are taken on 'gloriously blue sunny days' only because the background 'sky sheets' are that blue of a summer sky and the lighting is a 'daylight lamp'.

 

But why not portray and remember them on a gloriously blue, sunlit summer's day?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 31 by mikemeg

[John Tomlinson]

Plummeting this thread a long way, I have an old Mainline J72, bought decades ago for not a lot, which surprisingly runs very nicely indeed on its split chassis mechanism.

 

Would this be the same variant as your 69003/10, so a late one built by BR?

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

[mikemeg]

23 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

Plummeting this thread a long way, I have an old Mainline J72, bought decades ago for not a lot, which surprisingly runs very nicely indeed on its split chassis mechanism.

 

Would this be the same variant as your 69003/10, so a late one built by BR?

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

 

Hi John,

 

Without seeing a photo of the mainline model, it is impossible to identify which batch(es) the model covers.

 

The NER Class E1 (later LNER J72) were built as follows :-

 

1898 - 99      20 locos all with the shorter bunker. These became 68670 - 68689

1914              20 locos all with the longer bunker.  These became 68690 - 68709

1920              10      "                                          "         These became 68710 - 68719

1922              25      "                                          "         These became 68720 - 68744

1925              10      "                                          "         These became 68745 - 68754

1949 - 51      28      "                                          "          These were      69001 - 69028

 

As far as I know, the only visible difference between the 1914 to 1925 batches and those built by BR were the sanding arrangements. The earlier batches had rear sandboxes inside the cab; the last batch (BR) had externally mounted rear sandboxes which were clearly visible under the rear of the running plate. I believe the actuating mechanism for the front sandboxes (part of the front splasher) was also slightly different.

 

Some of the earlier locos may have lost their 'trumpet' safety valve cover but all of the last batch were built with and retained that cover.

 

Some locos were vacuum fitted and these did include earlier built examples. These locos were employed on station pilot duties and under BR, some were painted in full NER lined Saxony Green livery.

 

Reference to Yeadon would verify if this is the complete list of changes. The fifty three year span between the first and the last build is probably the longest of any loco class.

 

I have attached three photos :-

 

68670 which was the first NER Class E1 / LNER J72 to be built, with the shorter bunker.

68747 which was one of the 1925 LNER batch with the longer bunker (5 and 3/4"longer).

69010 which was one of the BR batch.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 1 by mikemeg

[John Tomlinson]

12 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

Hi John,

 

Without seeing a photo of the mainline model, it is impossible to identify which batch(es) the model covers.

 

The NER Class E1 (later LNER J72) were built as follows :-

 

1898 - 99      20 locos all with the shorter bunker. These became 68670 - 68689

1914              20 locos all with the longer bunker.  These became 68690 - 68709

1920              10      "                                          "         These became 68710 - 68719

1922              25      "                                          "         These became 68720 - 68744

1925              10      "                                          "         These became 68745 - 68754

1949 - 51      28      "                                          "          These were      69001 - 69028

 

As far as I know, the only visible difference between the 1914 to 1925 batches and those built by BR were the sanding arrangements. The earlier batches had rear sandboxes inside the cab; the last batch (BR) had externally mounted rear sandboxes which were clearly visible under the rear of the running plate. I believe the actuating mechanism for the front sandboxes (part of the front splasher) was also slightly different.

 

Some of the earlier locos may have lost their 'trumpet' safety valve cover but all of the last batch were built with and retained that cover.

 

Some locos were vacuum fitted and these did include earlier built examples. These locos were employed on station pilot duties and under BR, some were painted in full NER lined Saxony Green livery.

 

Reference to Yeadon would verify if this is the complete list of changes. The fifty three year span between the first and the last build is probably the longest of any loco class.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Many thanks indeed for such a full and helpful answer.

 

The loco body is certainly of the long bunker type, looking like the ones in your picture above. Mainline gave it the number 69001, which as we know isn't always correct  for any particular model, but appears so in this case. The body moulding quite possibly is the one used by Bachmann, it looks identical to the bodies on your 68724 and 69003 in terms of the chimney, dome and trumpet shapes, and also the moulded on worksplate on the splasher. It has the original Mainline chassis and motor, the latter unfortunately filling the cab. What it doesn't have are the large rear sandboxes that you mention and which are clearly visible on your examples, but which should be simple enough to make out of Evergreen plastic of a suitable size.

 

Thanks again for your reply.

 

John.

 

 

[mikemeg]

John,

 

I have added three photos to the above posting, showing the main variants.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

[John Tomlinson]

4 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

John,

 

I have added three photos to the above posting, showing the main variants.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

Thanks for that. The photo in the Docks is a stunner in its own right, so much of interest that is no longer with us.

 

John.

[mikemeg]

I do have photos of almost half of the class but here's a last one showing one of the earlier built J72's carrying the full lined green NER livery, albeit in BR days and looking decidedly faded.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[30368]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

I do have photos of almost half of the class but here's a last one showing one of the earlier built J72's carrying the full lined green NER livery, albeit in BR days and looking decidedly faded.

 

 

Is this Darlington Scrap line at North Road Station? A number of V1/3s in the picture.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

[mikemeg]

A Brace of J77's

 

Perhaps on the same day as the J72's above, or maybe another clear blue, sunny day, a pair of J77's wander along the up slow.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited April 2 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

9 hours ago, mikemeg said:

I do have photos of almost half of the class but here's a last one showing one of the earlier built J72's carrying the full lined green NER livery, albeit in BR days and looking decidedly faded.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Nice photo Mike: do you know the date it was taken?

[mikemeg]

On 01/04/2024 at 20:49, Chas Levin said:

Nice photo Mike: do you know the date it was taken?

 

Chas and Richard (30368),

 

Only two J72's were painted in the full NER lined green livery, both done in 1960. 68723 was the station pilot at Newcastle; 68736 station pilot at York. 68736 went to Newcastle in 1961 and both 68723 and 68736 were withdrawn later in 1961.

 

So the photo could be one of the Newcastle sheds (the V1/V3's in the background would support that) then it is after 68736's transfer; or if the photo is the scrap line at Darlington (and the V1's were withdrawn from 1960 - 1962 so that's also supported) then the photo is either late 1961 or early 1962 as neither loco seems to have spent any significant time in store and this preceded the intervention of the preservation movement.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited April 3 by mikemeg

[rowanj]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

 

Chas and Richard (30368),

 

Only two J72's were painted in the full NER lined green livery, both done in 1960. 68723 was the station pilot at Newcastle; 68736 station pilot at York. 68736 went to Newcastle in 1961 and both 68723 and 68736 were withdrawn later in 1961.

 

So the photo could be one of the Newcastle sheds (the V1/V3's in the background would support that) then it is after 68736's transfer; or if the photo is the scrap line at Darlington (and the V1's were withdrawn from 1960 - 1962 so that's also supported) then the photo is either late 1961 or early 1962 as neither loco seems to have spent any significant time in store and this preceded the intervention of the preservation movement.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Just to firm up the dates, the transfer to Gateshead from York was 22/07/61, and the loco was withdrawn 07.10 63. I suspect the photo is the dead line at Heaton-probably a Sunday, but Darlington is also a possibility- the loco was recorded at North Road on 18/01/64 awaiting scrapping. Colour photos can be problematical, but the livery looks faded, so if the date turned out to be  in 1963, I wouldn't be surprised.

[mikemeg]

Thanks John,

 

I actually read the withdrawal dates on one of the Bachmann Internet entries for the J72 and the dates did seem a bit 'compressed' with a stated withdrawal date of late 1961. 1963 or early 1964 as a date for the photo makes much more sense, given the state of the paintwork.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited April 8 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

Thanks Mike and Rowan, nice to be able to narrow it down to a year or two with accuracy: so many photos are so difficult to date.

[mikemeg]

LNER T1's

 

Every now and again I have a repair campaign when any damage to any of the working models is repaired/replaced. The T1 69915 which is now twenty years old, was in need of new front guard irons, footplate steps and a top smokebox lamp iron, so those are in the process of being done.

 

Also, looking inside my airtight box, I came across this build which I did a few years ago and which I didn't pursue because I was never happy with the design of the chassis. After re-evaluating the chassis etches, I think I can build it in a completely different way, using the etches as supplied but significantly modifying them by using wider mainframe spacers - those supplied are to fit 'OO' gauge - and by substituting high level hornguides and axleboxes and continuous springy beams, rather than two sets of compensating beams with top hat bearings, as supplied.

 

Also, looking at the two photos, the chimney on the second build, which is the one supplied with the kit, is just not quite right and will be changed or at least reprofiled.

 

Once a number of other models are painted and commissioned, then I will build the chassis for the second T1 which will become 69914, based at Hull Dairycoates in mid 1950.

 

So to Richard (30368) who suggested that I had an ex-NER tank engine 'habit', seems I've not yet broken the habit and am condemned to and must continue to 'suffer'.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by mikemeg

[Suffolk Dave]

The T1 is an impressive looking loco, Mike. Can you tell us which kit manufacture your models come from? 

[mikemeg]

Hi Dave,

 

The first T1 started life as a Little Engines white metal kit. As I worked through the evaluation and checking of this kit, I discarded more and more of it so that, ultimately, the body was scratch built, using plasticard, and using some of the castings from the original kit - smokebox door, chimney, dome, tank breathers, etc. The chassis was almost entirely scratch built including the connecting and coupling rods. Only the crossheads and slide bar assembly and the brake shoes and hangars from the kit were used. In truth, I was never satisfied with the brake assembly on this model and did update this assembly when I did the second build.

 

This model weighs in at 15 ounces and is powered by a Mashima 1630 with a flywheel and a 40 : 1 gearbox. Now I would fit an 80 :1 or even a 120 : 1 gearbox as these things ran very, very slowly when hump shunting. On a test track this loco did pull over seventy wagons with ease, until a three link coupling, in the middle of the train, broke. As the wagons were borrowed from various sources, for this test, the owner of the bulk of the wagons - including the one which suffered a coupling failure -  wasn't mightily impressed with my T1.

 

I used exactly the same approach on a Little Engines A6 kit, finishing up scratch building the body in plasticard using only the castings from the kit. The chassis on this is one of Arthur's North Eastern Kits etched chassis for his A6 kit. I did the test builds for this A6 kit and then built two more, so I now have four A6's. There only ever were ten of them so I now have 40% of the class.

 

A photo of the original A6 scratch build is posted below. This loco is fifteen years old and still going strong. I entitled this photo - Broodily Massive - for that's what these things were. They were big, often noisy and smelly, frequently dirty and unkempt but they were lovely things. For me, tank locos didn't get much better than the A6's!!

 

The second T1 build is a 52F kit, though I haven't built the chassis as supplied.  When I bought this kit, I also bought an additional set of chassis etches which I then used to update the scratch built model. Later this year, once I have finished and commissioned the various 4-6-0's which I've built, then I will turn my attention to building the chassis for the second T1, using the supplied etches as the basis of a 'hybrid scratch build' where the chassis is assembled in a completely different way from its designed method and to P4 gauge.

 

Hope this helps but if you have any more queries, just ask and I'll do my best to answer them.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited April 9 by mikemeg

[Suffolk Dave]

Hi Mike

 

Thanks for the insight into the locos.

 

I'm not too familiar with 52F kits so took a look at their website. The T1 kit looks and sounds impressive. I'm rather fond of shunters of all sizes and now I've seen this T1 kit my brain will be working on a justification for having one!  

 

Dave 

[Amaziii]

Mr. Stanger, the man who runs 52F Models, is an incredibly kind chap! He also has an incredibly revolutionary instruction system, which is a thick booklet accompanied with coloured CAD drawings on how to assemble the kit (very similar to an IKEA build!). It makes it incredibly easy to construct kits as you have MANY visual references that are of different angles and colour-coded. He also gives much consideration to make it easier for the modeller, which is why all the parts that are curved or rolled are done beforehand by him, so it's mainly a matter of assembly at that point for you. I HIGHLY recommend that you give it a try if you're interested in the N.E.R. 'T1'! His kits are truly like no other...

 

Here's a photo of my instructions for the L.N.E.R. 'A8': (images have been very compressed, but they give you the general idea)

Edited April 11 by Amaziii

[30368]

1 hour ago, Amaziii said:

His kits are truly like no other...

 

Wow, I see what you mean! Really detailed instructions. I shall take a look at the website.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

[mikemeg]

Absolutely agree with the comments on the quality of the instructions in 52F kits; they are outstanding. My concern with the chassis of the T1 kit, as supplied, was simply that I had used High Level hornguides and axleboxes almost exclusively on my models and the continuous springy beams, fitted inside the mainframes and above the axleboxes would then obviate the need for the 8BA screwheads showing on the outside of the mainframes to provide the pivots for the two sets of compensating beams.

 

So while the T1 body was 'out for photographing' I did take the opportunity to :-

 

a) Just slightly reprofile the chimney.

 

b) Replace the buffers with LNER group standard ones.

 

Now this will have to wait for its chassis!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 11 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

20 hours ago, Suffolk Dave said:

Hi Mike

 

Thanks for the insight into the locos.

 

I'm rather fond of shunters of all sizes and now I've seen this T1 kit my brain will be working on a justification for having one!  

 

Dave 

 

Hi Dave,

 

Like you I too have a fondness for shunters, of all sizes. My models are almost entirely of locomotives based in Hull around 1950. At that time, the four loco sheds in Hull could, collectively, muster around forty 0-6-0 tank shunters of classes J71, J72, J73 and J77. Then there were some twenty 0-6-2 tanks of classes N8 and N10 and five T1 4-8-0 tanks.

 

Add to that the various Paciific tanks of classes A5, A6, A7 and A8, along with C12's, G5's and then the little 'Y' classes. Then, of course, there were the various tender classes - B1, C7, D20, D49, J25, J39, K3, O1 and O4, WD, etc and there was a bewildering array of loco types based in the town. Ex GN, GC, GE, Midland, LNWR, L&Y and LMS locos also worked into Hull on both passenger and freight turns.

 

On Summer Saturdays and Sundays, the excursions to Bridlington or Scarborough could bring ex Great Central locos as well as Midland and LMS classes.

 

I never saw those early British Railways days but it must have been 'one hell of a place' for loco spotters.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited April 11 by mikemeg

[Suffolk Dave]

7 hours ago, Amaziii said:

His kits are truly like no other...

 

 

Amaziii, thanks sharing your thoughts on 52f's kits 

[Suffolk Dave]

3 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

 

 

I never saw those early British Railways days but it must have been 'one hell of a place' for loco spotters.

 

 

Indeed it must have been. As an 'ull lad myself, it had long gone by the time I started to notice the railway. My spotting days were few in number as Paragon yielded more DMUs than locos. That said, I did delight in those faded Class 03s and that's probably how I got my love the humble shunter!  

[mikemeg]

LNER T1's

 

So, before I return the second T1 to the 'airtight box' a last photo to check the chimney likenesses. Looks ok! Originally destined to be 69914 of Hull Dairycoates, this will now become 69920, also of Hull Dairycoates. This shed had five of this class in mid 1950, probably all used for shunting Hull New Inward Yard, which was a hump yard as opposed to the other yards which were flat.

 

Cheers

 

Mike