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Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

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Really nice work, Mike. I too enjoy seeing detail differences between ostensibly identical locos. Just like the real thing..

John

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Really nice work, Mike. I too enjoy seeing detail differences between ostensibly identical locos. Just like the real thing..

John

 

John,

 

Many thanks. Yes, though I'm not quite sure why I have accumulated so many 0-6-0 tanks! I've sought advice and counselling and even been referred to 'shunting tanks anonymous' but to no avail, for still they keep coming. The big tanks (4-6-2 and 4-8-0) are also multiplying quite quickly.

 

In the heyday of steam, most areas had a preponderance of certain types based on the predominant types of traffic that any specific loco depot was responsible for. In Hull, in the early fifties, the management and movement of freight wagons was the principal determinant of the loco types based in the town with a large number of locos engaged in shunting on the docks and the various goods yards in the town. These were mainly 0-6-0 tanks though the large marshalling yards also utilised much larger locos - A7 4-6-2 tanks and T1 4-8-0 tanks.

 

Another large group of locos (N8's, N10's, A7's) was engaged in moving wagons between the docks and the town's marshalling yards on trip freight workings. Etc,etc.

 

Other groups of locos (O1's, O4;s, Austerities) handled the longer distance empty and loaded mineral trains while the mixed traffic classes (B1, B16, K3) handled the fitted freights and fish trains.

 

Hull's Botanic Gardens shed, had a totally different range of classes allocated, as ths shed provided the motive power for the passnger workings.

 

So to represent the area does, perhaps, need multiple examples of the classes which were most numerous in the town, And I enjoy building them which is the real excuse!

 

Of course, many of these shunting and trip freight locos never saw the main line (as depicted by my Hessle Haven layout) other than on their way to/from works for overhaul or repair, when they would almost certainly have been towed.

 

Regards

 

Mike

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Mike,

You make a very good point about the predominance of loco types in an area, based on traffic. Most modellers, myself included, fall into the trap of doing one of everything we find attractive instead of several of a restricted range. If I complete all the kits in stock, I will at least end up with several Black 5's, as befitting an ex-LMS location.

Looking forward to your next project.

Dave.

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Mike,

You make a very good point about the predominance of loco types in an area, based on traffic. Most modellers, myself included, fall into the trap of doing one of everything we find attractive instead of several of a restricted range. If I complete all the kits in stock, I will at least end up with several Black 5's, as befitting an ex-LMS location.

Looking forward to your next project.

Dave.

 

Dave,

 

Thanks for that. Part of this is prototypical justification; part of this is excuses because of the number of 'multiples' I've built.

 

If you're talking Black 5's, I can vividly remember doing 21A - Saltley - shed in Birmingham one Sunday in mid 1962. There must have been fifty or more Black 5's and as many 4F's and 8F's, as well as all of the other classes found in one of the largest of ex-LMS sheds.

 

The two Fletcher cab J77's are deliberately finished more or less identically simply to reinforce the fact that they are duplicates. The three G5's are slightly less similar, externally, so will be finished in differing states of 1950 delapidation,  as are the four A6's. Of course for an ex LNER area, as Hull was, then there were the ubiquitous B1's, K3's, J39's and the even more ubiquitous Austerities, none of which I've yet built.

 

Sadly, for the train spotting fraternity in and around the Hull area, Hull - Doncaster was an RA7 route, which preluded the LNER Pacifics and V2's from being allocated to any of the Hull sheds, though they did work in on the Selby - Hull and York - Hull routes.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Edited by mikemeg

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If you're talking Black 5's, I can vividly remember doing 21A - Saltley - shed in Birmingham one Sunday in mid 1962. There must have been fifty or more Black 5's and as many 4F's and 8F's, as well as all of the other classes found in one of the largest of ex-LMS sheds.

 

Better not try to model Saltley, then.........

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John,

 

Many thanks. Yes, though I'm not quite sure why I have accumulated so many 0-6-0 tanks! I've sought advice and counselling and even been referred to 'shunting tanks anonymous' but to no avail, for still they keep coming. The big tanks (4-6-2 and 4-8-0) are also multiplying quite quickly.

 

In the heyday of steam, most areas had a preponderance of certain types based on the predominant types of traffic that any specific loco depot was responsible for. In Hull, in the early fifties, the management and movement of freight wagons was the principal determinant of the loco types based in the town with a large number of locos engaged in shunting on the docks and the various goods yards in the town. These were mainly 0-6-0 tanks though the large marshalling yards also utilised much larger locos - A7 4-6-2 tanks and T1 4-8-0 tanks.

 

Another large group of locos (N8's, N10's, A7's) was engaged in moving wagons between the docks and the town's marshalling yards on trip freight workings. Etc,etc.

 

Other groups of locos (O1's, O4;s, Austerities) handled the longer distance empty and loaded mineral trains while the mixed traffic classes (B1, B16, K3) handled the fitted freights and fish trains.

 

Hull's Botanic Gardens shed, had a totally different range of classes allocated, as ths shed provided the motive power for the passnger workings.

 

So to represent the area does, perhaps, need multiple examples of the classes which were most numerous in the town, And I enjoy building them which is the real excuse!

 

Of course, many of these shunting and trip freight locos never saw the main line (as depicted by my Hessle Haven layout) other than on their way to/from works for overhaul or repair, when they would almost certainly have been towed.

 

Mike,

With Arthur having the A6 and Peter Stanger planning to release the A8, we just need the A7 now. I have suggested this one to Arthur previously and he has eluded to a surprise new loco kit at some point in the future, probably something totally different but I am sure still North Eastern though.

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John,

 

Many thanks. Yes, though I'm not quite sure why I have accumulated so many 0-6-0 tanks! I've sought advice and counselling and even been referred to 'shunting tanks anonymous' but to no avail, for still they keep coming. The big tanks (4-6-2 and 4-8-0) are also multiplying quite quickly.

 

In the heyday of steam, most areas had a preponderance of certain types based on the predominant types of traffic that any specific loco depot was responsible for. In Hull, in the early fifties, the management and movement of freight wagons was the principal determinant of the loco types based in the town with a large number of locos engaged in shunting on the docks and the various goods yards in the town. These were mainly 0-6-0 tanks though the large marshalling yards also utilised much larger locos - A7 4-6-2 tanks and T1 4-8-0 tanks.

 

Another large group of locos (N8's, N10's, A7's) was engaged in moving wagons between the docks and the town's marshalling yards on trip freight workings. Etc,etc.

 

Other groups of locos (O1's, O4;s, Austerities) handled the longer distance empty and loaded mineral trains while the mixed traffic classes (B1, B16, K3) handled the fitted freights and fish trains.

 

Hull's Botanic Gardens shed, had a totally different range of classes allocated, as ths shed provided the motive power for the passnger workings.

 

So to represent the area does, perhaps, need multiple examples of the classes which were most numerous in the town, And I enjoy building them which is the real excuse!

 

Of course, many of these shunting and trip freight locos never saw the main line (as depicted by my Hessle Haven layout) other than on their way to/from works for overhaul or repair, when they would almost certainly have been towed.

 

Mike,

With Arthur having the A6 and Peter Stanger planning to release the A8, we just need the A7 now. I have suggested this one to Arthur previously and he has eluded to a surprise new loco kit at some point in the future, probably something totally different but I am sure still North Eastern though.

Mike 

 

Don't don't forget that A6s served as station pilots at Paragon. In particular 69786.

 

ArthurK

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On 22/01/2019 at 22:25, ArthurK said:

Mike 

 

Don't don't forget that A6s served as station pilots at Paragon. In particular 69786.

 

ArthurK

 

Arthur,

 

No I can't forget the A6 tanks; I've got four of them (40% of the class!). And I think I know where I can get another kit for the fifth, before they are sold out?

 

Do you mean this one?  I once referred to these A6 tanks as broodily massive; and they were!

 

And even in their final years, they really looked the part in British Railways lined black.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

P2270014.JPG

Broodily Massive.JPG

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Mike,

With Arthur having the A6 and Peter Stanger planning to release the A8, we just need the A7 now. I have suggested this one to Arthur previously and he has eluded to a surprise new loco kit at some point in the future, probably something totally different but I am sure still North Eastern though.

 

I believe I'm right in saying that Hull was the only place where all of the LNER's 'A' classes could be seen, though not necessarily at the same time. Certainly the A5's, A6's, A7's and A8's could all be seen in Hull in 1951 - 1953, with the larger Pacific classes making appearances from time to time.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

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My old mate Mick Nicholson just sent me this photo of an ex Lancashire and Yorkshire 0-4-0 Pug. Nothing remarkable about that, you might say! And I might agree, except that this loco, based as it was at Goole - we think -  (though it is carrying a 53E shedplate), was photographed outside Hull's Dairycoates shed; albeit in 1959.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

post-3150-0-84931900-1548236206_thumb.jpg

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Mike,

You make a very good point about the predominance of loco types in an area, based on traffic. Most modellers, myself included, fall into the trap of doing one of everything we find attractive instead of several of a restricted range. If I complete all the kits in stock, I will at least end up with several Black 5's, as befitting an ex-LMS location.

Looking forward to your next project.

Dave.

 

Dave,

 

I think it's time that I took on something with Walschaerts valve gear so, once the paint shop queue is finished, then I think a couple of Bachmann B1 'conversions' might loom large on the workbench. I have the B1 bodies already stripped and I have a couple of David Bradwells chassis kits and I have the Gibson wheels and Mashima motors so there really is nothing in the way of doing these.

 

About time I did something LNER!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

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Mike,

An excellent choice, if I might say so. I'm looking forward already!

I have one of Dave's B1 chassis and plastic body to build, sometime (and a 9F chassis for when I feel really brave). These locos were quite regular visitors to the Manchester area and I always thought they appeared to be highly competent engines, if perhaps not quite as handsome as the Stanier locos.

Dave.

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On 23/01/2019 at 11:36, Dave Holt said:

Mike,

An excellent choice, if I might say so. I'm looking forward already!

I have one of Dave's B1 chassis and plastic body to build, sometime (and a 9F chassis for when I feel really brave). These locos were quite regular visitors to the Manchester area and I always thought they appeared to be highly competent engines, if perhaps not quite as handsome as the Stanier locos.

Dave.

 

Dave,

 

Thanks for that. The B1 was, to the LNER and its British Railways Regions successors, what the Black 5 was to the LMS and its BR regional successors; the maid of all work. Hull, in 1950, had relatively few B1's (around 8) whereas it had over twenty K3's. Many of the passenger turns, at that time, were handled by the D20's, D49's and the profusion of tanks based at Hull Botanic Gardens shed.

 

So, even with the tender locos, a couple of B1's and three or four K3's would be needed to give a balanced representation of the locos in the area.

 

Cue for a photo (courtesy Mick Nicholson) of a B1 on Hull Botanic Gardens shed in April 1948 - 1165 later 61165 of Mexborough shed - in LNER apple green. I hope the readers of this thread find as much pleasure in seeing these 'rescued' black and white photographs as I do. Mick has rescued and restored literally hundreds of these old photos, preserved for posterity. Photos which can never, ever, be taken again!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

B1 at Botanic.jpg

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Bachmann B1 David Bradwell Conversion

 

Well 'in for a penny in for ........'. So the two Bachmann bodies have been stripped (done a few years ago) the boiler bands removed (also done a few years ago) and the chimneys and domes replaced. They are not a pretty sight in this state though, hopefully, this is as bad as they'll get. From here on in they should start to look better - where's the emoticon for crossed fingers?

 

I now have to fill in the holes from the old handrail stanchions and then re-drill for Alan Gibson handrail knobs.

 

This project might not get off to the quickest of starts as I have a lot of completing and painting to do but I'll try and progress it reasonably quickly. At least the thread title has been amended to include these conversions. Might have to add 'and L&Y' given the photo a couple of postings back.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

post-3150-0-25536100-1548252465_thumb.jpg

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I've also got a SE Finecast K3 to do - they were seen on the O, A&GB line in Oldham, on holiday excursions. It's one of the upgraded kits suitable for P4 with a sprung chassis using the Brassmasters axleboxes and coil springs. The casting look to be of good quality and the chassis etchings on a par with good modern kits, although perhaps not to Bradwell standard.

Dave.

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Hi Mike,

 

Are you planning to do 1165/1165? In your period it was one of a batch of 4 Vulcan built B1s at Mexborough (1165-8)? If so are you planning to fit the Metropolitan Vickers lighting with the axle-mounted generator shown? They supposedly tended to have a habit of coming off and ending up in the cess. There's the odd photo showing locos with just the stub axle. That photo also clearly shows the mount for the BTH speedo under the cab. The speedo equipment wasn't supplied until later.

 

I'll follow your work with interest as I've just stripped a Farish body to do Gorton's 61162 in 1950 condition. It's low down the list at present as there's no 2mm conversion chassis at the moment.

 

Best wishes

 

Simon

Edited by 65179

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Hi Mike,

 

Are you planning to do 1165/1165? In your period it was one of a batch of 4 Vulcan built B1s at Mexborough (1165-8)? If so are you planning to fit the Metropolitan Vickers lighting with the axle-mounted generator shown? They supposedly tended to have a habit of coming off and ending up in the cess. There's the odd photo showing locos with just the stub axle. That photo also clearly shows the mount for the BTH speedo under the cab. The speedo equipment wasn't supplied until later.

 

I'll follow your work with interest as I've just stripped a Farish body to do Gorton's 61162 in 1950 condition. It's low down the list at present as there's no 2mm conversion chassis at the moment.

 

Best wishes

 

Simon

 

Simon,

 

The original plan was to do one as 61010 - Wildebeeste - a long time resident of Hull Botanic Gardens and, later, Hull Dairycoates shed. This will be done in British Railways mixed traffic lined black with the lion and wheel totem. I haven't decided on the second, though I do want to do one in LNER apple green, ideally with the earliest form of British Railways markings. The photo of 1165 shows it in LNER apple green but with LNER markings. The photo was taken only four months after British Railways' formation, so not surprising.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

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Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

While all of this system re-configuration has been going on, I've done some work on the two David Bradwell B1 chassis kits. The 'heavy engineering' to produce the basic chassis' is largely completed - see photo - so now I can proceed to assembling the cylinders on the two chassis. The brake hangar brackets have been attached, to both chassis and the twelve brakes have also been assembled so, thus far, both chassis' are in sync.

 

I have to say I am impressed with this kit, mightily impressed! All necessary  wire, rods, tube, nuts and bolts, etc. are in the kit along with some excellent brass castings. Needless to say, this kit does require a great deal of care and simply cannot be rushed!

 

This is also my first posting under the new software, so apologies if anything goes awry.

 

The new site user interface is superb; just superb!! The migration to the new software may have taken a little longer than was planned but it does look to have been well worth it.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3190025.JPG

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Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

Assembly of the first set of cylinders, on chassis build #1, is now proceeding. As with everything in this kit, care must be taken to achieve the correct inclination of the cylinders - in this case around 1 in 50. There is a witness mark on the chassis to assist in achieving this by passing a piece of 1.25 mm rod through the front and rear of the cylinder and checking the point at which the rod passes over the centre axle cut out.

 

I've seen a few models spoilt by badly inclined cylinders, even some of them sloping the wrong way!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3200001.JPG

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Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

The cylinder detail is now being built up with the tube for the valve rod soldered into the cylinder front and rear and the relief valves made from 1.25 mm rod and fitted to front and rear of the cylinders. Once fitted, then the relief valves were filed back to their correct lengths - 2.8 mm on the rear valve & 2.3 mm on the front valve. The piston gland has been fitted and the rear piston valve head is just resting in place on the rear portion of the valve rod guide.  The cylinder front covers will now be assembled and ftted along with the front and rear piston valve heads.

 

The whole of the cylinder and motion plate assembly is designed to be removeable and, so far, it is!

 

I'm taking this much more slowly than normal and dry running every stage. Re-reading the instructions, I can see why Dave Bradwell advocated leaving the fixing of the brake hangar brackets until after the hornguides are fitted, though this can fairly easily be worked around.

 

The photographs, uploaded to the thread(s), now seem to display somewhat larger than before!  Compare the viewing size of these last three photographs to the viewing size of those which were uploaded under the older software!  I did do an edit which consisted of removing a couple of images and then replacing them and, sure enough, they replace with the larger format.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3200002.JPG

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Mike,

Don't forget to drill the holes in the valve guide casting, for the drain cock linkage, before you fix them to the cylinders!

Dave.

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12 hours ago, Dave Holt said:

Mike,

Don't forget to drill the holes in the valve guide casting, for the drain cock linkage, before you fix them to the cylinders!

Dave.

 

Dave,

 

Thanks for the reminder. I've found the 0.8 mm drill which is necessary for this.

 

Chers

 

Mike

 

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Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

Both chassis are, once again, now at the same stage with the cylinder assembly added to build #2 with the piston valve guide , the piston gland and the relief valves all added.

 

Now for the expansion link bracket on each chassis.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3200005.JPG

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Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

Progressing further, with this kit, illustrates just how much thought has gone into the design. The entire cylinder assemby is designed to be removable, being attached to a central plate which is screwed to the top cross member across the mainframes. Similarly the expanson link bracket is also built up as a sub-assembly and then attached to the same plate carrying the cylinder assembly. So I can assemble the expansion bracket assembly and set that aside until the cylinder assembly is complete.

 

The expansion bracket is assembled using temporary wires (0.8 mm and 1.25 mm) which span the frames though corresponding holes on each side and are then withdrawn once the sub-assembly is complete. This does take some careful setting up but, once set up and soldered, then the sub-assembly fits perfectly and should continue to fit perfectly.

 

Each successive stage does reinforce Dave Bradwell's advice not to rush this but to take whatever time is necessary to do it correctly. Many of the etchings are quite delicate and are etched with great precision and the building of the kit does demand a similar degree of precision to achieve the required result.

 

It is perhaps worth adding that the builder does need a good selection of drills  - 0.3,  0.4, 0.6, 0.8, 1.3, 1.5 mm encountered so far - and a 10BA tap is also a necessity for tapping the various spacers to allow 10BA screws to be used.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

P3200006.JPG

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Bachmann B1 Conversion

 

The final part of the expansion link bracket assembly is fitting the tiny bearings to the front of the bracket itself. These are quite small and easily lost so, again, great care needed. I first tinned the end of the expansion bracket, then cleaned the hole in the bracket back out to 0.8 mm. The piece of 0.8 mm brass rod, used to do the positioning, was then dipped in olive oil and the bearing slotted over the rod. After positioning the bearing, with the oil box to the top, a very precise application of the iron to solder the bearing to the bracket, without soldering the rod. Withdraw the rod, polish up the bearings and the whole assembly is done.

 

The thing hanging down, visible in the leading axle cut outs, is a 10BA screw which was one I had on the bench and used, temporarily, to clamp up the cylinder assembly. At final assembly, a much shorter 10BA screw will be used, otherwise this B1 will be minus one axle and going nowhere!!

 

The entire cylinder assembly and expansion link bracket assembly are removeable and will be removed to fit the hornguides, axleboxes and springing.

 

Now to do this all over again on build #2! Doing the second one, each time, is not proving to be anything of a chore; yet!!

 

Looking at the relationship between the chassis and the loco body then it should be possible to accommodate the High Level gearbox and a Mashima 1428 quite easily, driving the middle axle, with the motor pretty well horizontal and sitting, partially, between the frames. I'll probably gear this around 50 - 60 : 1 which should give good slow speed performance and enough top speed.  I know Dave Bradwell advocates fitting a big motor plus big flywheel in the tender and driving via a universal coupling but I don't intend to go that route.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3200007.JPG

P3200008.JPG

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