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Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

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Mike,

A lovely piece of drawing work. I'd probably quit at that stage, but I expect you'll go on to build an equally wonderful model!

Dave.

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On 10/06/2019 at 10:44, Dave Holt said:

Mike,

A lovely piece of drawing work. I'd probably quit at that stage, but I expect you'll go on to build an equally wonderful model!

Dave.

 

Thanks Dave.

 

Drawing these things is something of a 'labour of love' and, I guess, I do them because I can! I'm probably very lucky to have retained good enough eyesight to still be able to do these, still using the .05 mm and .1 mm marker pens. I haven't (yet) planned to build a model of this one, though that could (and likely will) change, though not until next year!

 

I could clutter up the drawings with all sorts of measurements but to preserve some sort of 'artistic feel' then I draw everything to scale, so that it can be later measured from the drawing. So annotation of the drawings is kept to a minimum.

 

Building models of these things posed challenges that I wanted to confront and to master. Though, with the models, I'm not yet there or fully satisfied, but then I never will be!

 

So one more drawing exercise - the instructions for the LRM B16/1 - before I can return to building the locos and building a couple of signals for a good friend of mine.

 

Here's another one done almost ten years ago - 2010.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

P2150019.JPG

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Well that's it; done.

 

Some eight hours of poring over the single photograph, measuring, working out the parallax geometry, sizing and dimensioning. Then thirty hours, or so, of establishing the hidden lines (where one part lies over another), placing the construction lines, drawing, erasing construction lines, colouring and shading.

 

And, throughout that time, desparately trying to avoid making a mess and having to restart, for a fourth time!!

 

Now it can be carefully preserved in a clear A3 plastic cover for later use.

 

For a piece of functional equipment, these things were just lovely. Classic Victorian and Edwardian design and engineering!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P2140017.JPG

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Mike,

I think you certainly did capture the essence of the prototype - very nice indeed. Don't think I'd fancy using those ladders up to the lamps, mind.

Dave.

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On 13/06/2019 at 21:32, Dave Holt said:

Mike,

I think you certainly did capture the essence of the prototype - very nice indeed. Don't think I'd fancy using those ladders up to the lamps, mind.

Dave.

 

When you look at the safety provision, on these things, they seem like accidents waiting to happen. Yet, my old mate and ex-signalman, Mick Nicholson, accords that there were virtually no accidents with people falling off. Now, of course, those semaphore signals still operating - mostly tubular post and plate and angle brackets - are shrouded in enclosed ladders, etc.

 

Like much of the railway infrastructure, that part of Network Rail, charged with making the infrastructure look as ugly as possible, have been hugely successful on the remaining semaphore signals!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited by mikemeg

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Bachmann J72 Conversion

 

Ages ago, long before I built Arthur's two J72 kits, I did a couple of J72 conversions, using the Bachmann body as the basis. The chassis' used the High Level Models J72 kit. I know I've posted photos of 69003, which was one of the 1949 - 1951 batch of J72's but I'm not sure if I posted any pictures of the other J72 conversion. Anyway, at the risk of repeating an earlier picture, here's a photo of the second of these two P4 conversions - 68724 - some time resident of Hull Alexandra Dock shed.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

P1010016 (1).JPG

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I think I may have mentioned that my loco building activites have been temporarily stopped, while I catch up on a couple of drawing commitments. One is complete - the Hull West Parade Signal Bridge; the other is still ongoing - producing the diagrammatic instructions for the soon to be released London Road Models B16/1.

 

So, why do I mention all of these excuses for lack of building progress? Well, during the production of these instructions for the B16/1 I found that I had forgotten the details of some of the modifications, tweaks and fiddles that I did on the original test build!! So, there was no alternative but to do some of the operations again, on the second test build, in order that I could document them. Anyway, because of that I have, somewhat unwittingly, made quite a lot of progress on the second B16/1 and I'll post a photo or two in the next day or two.

 

Now, I must set off for Gloucestershire and RAF Fairford, to one of the world's greatest Air Shows - The Royal International Air Tattoo. Me and nearly 200,000 other folk. It will probably be the largest 'assembly' of seriously large (and oft times very expensive) telephoto lenses ever to be seen!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

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Mike,

 

As you are back, albeit temporarily, to NER locos, you might be interested in some of the detail shots of the preserved Q7 I've added to the community prototype gallery:

I'll add more including some of the 4125 gallon tender in due course.

 

Simon

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Simon,

 

Thanks for that. The photo shows, very well, the pattern of the standard North Eastern mechanical lubricator. It seems, talking to Arthur, that this pattern of lubricator, for which Arthur produces a brass casting, was also used by the LNER when replacing or adding mechanical lubricators to ex-NER locomotives, so is applicable throughout the lives of such locos.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

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Mike,

 

I'd noticed that you'd managed to source NER lubricators for your first B16, while I've seen plenty of other B16 models in 4 and 7mm where other types had had to be substituted. Good to know Arthur does a casting for those who require it. In 2mm scale a suitable blob will do! I originally went to see the Q7 to see what a non-scoop fitted 4125 gallon tender looked like for a Q6 I'm building- cue comedy attempts by a short bloke to photograph the space where the scoop dome would otherwise be!

 

4125 gallon toolbox and other detail shots now added to the gallery images.  The location of the loco largely surrounded by platforms limited what I could usefully photograph.

 

Simon

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On 22/07/2019 at 20:49, 65179 said:

Mike,

 

I'd noticed that you'd managed to source NER lubricators for your first B16, while I've seen plenty of other B16 models in 4 and 7mm where other types had had to be substituted. Good to know Arthur does a casting for those who require it. In 2mm scale a suitable blob will do! I originally went to see the Q7 to see what a non-scoop fitted 4125 gallon tender looked like for a Q6 I'm building- cue comedy attempts by a short bloke to photograph the space where the scoop dome would otherwise be!

 

4125 gallon toolbox and other detail shots now added to the gallery images.  The location of the loco largely surrounded by platforms limited what I could usefully photograph.

 

Simon

 

Simon,

 

The kit for the B16/1 was actually drawn and produced in 1990, though it hasn't, as yet, been made widely available. Since then, now almost thirty years, a number of suppliers have introduced kits for ex-North Eastern prototypes which have embodied newly produced brass or white metal castings. I've been fortunate enough to build a very wide range of ex-North Eastern types from a number of suppliers and have therefore accumulated some knowledge of what castings are available. The three LRM/George Norton G5 kits, built last year, also took advantage of many more recently introduced white metal and brass castings.


Arthur Kimber (North Eastern Kits) has a wide range of brass and white metal castings available.  Arthur actually now provides a full sprue of these North Eastern mechanical lubricators, containing six identical castings. He also produces 'dedicated' sprues for LNER and NER buffers, NER and Ross pop safety valves and housings, etc.

 

 

Dave Alexander has/had a range of castings available. I used his white metal castings for push and pull equipment on two of the three G5's built last year and very good they are.

 

52F Models and David Bradwell also have extensive ranges of castings available.

 

As an aside, all locomotives employing superheating, were fitted with mechanical lubricators to lubricate the cylinders, as superheated (or dry) steam is not self lubricating whereas saturated (or wet) steam is self lubricating. Thus those classes where both saturated or superheated boilers could be fitted, would sport a mechanical lubricator with the superheated boiler. Whether (or not) the lubricator was removed or disconnected when a saturated boiler was fitted, I don't know but I think I know a man that does!

 

It is probably not viable for LRM to update the B16/1 kit with all of the latest (and most applicable) castings - though this should not prevent any prospective builder from purchasing the kit - so the builder is advised to 'update' whichever castings they feel necessary.

 

I also had the advantage of having accumulated a 'stock' of more recent brass and nickel silver etches - lamp irons, bogie frames, boiler bands, etc. - which could also be used to update the kit.

 

The basic B16/1 kit is still an excellent representation of these locos and has been updated with additional etches to allow all of the structural variations, of these locos, to be represented.

 

As to the 4125 gallon tender, I was fortunate to be given a copy of the photo below, which does show a great deal of the front end detail. This tender is lined so almost certainly from a B16. The wooden footplate extension, to match the level of the cab footplate, is interesting. Also worth noting that the tender side lining and the valance lining are of different widths with the valance lining having the two constituent lines  closer together.

 

I'm also fortunate, and very grateful, in having some readers of the thread who are very exacting in their judgements and who are quite prepared to point out areas where they believe that the models fall short. For me, this aspect is very valuable and I would certainly never attempt to (nor could) dissuade those contributors from continuing to do this.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Tender 4125005.jpg

P3020016.JPG

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LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

So, as previously mentioned, progress is being made - unwittingly, in the sense that I hadn't planned to do this work just yet - on the second of the LRM B16/1's using the new etches for the boiler wrapper, centre footplate section and splasher sides. The photo below shows some of the parts completely or partially assembled - footplate, boiler, cab platework, smokebox saddle, valve cover, motion plate. For John and Jol of LRM; all of the diagrams for these and many more assemblies are now done; just the last of the chassis and the tender to do.

 

Some re-profiling has also been done on the dome itself, and the chimney and dome seating to allow a much more 'flush' fit with the boiler top. This fettling of the dome and chimney seating is a faff and needs to be done very slowly, but it is well worth the hour's effort as it really does improve the look of the model.

 

Finally, let's include a photo of a likely prototype candidate for this B16/1, with the 49A boiler (carried 10/47 - 12/51, then reverted to an original 49 pattern boiler), plain splashers, etc. and then see what other characteristics this loco exhibits in the very early days of British Railways. So, 61462 under the coaling plant at Hull Dairycoates shed. Note the number painted on the buffer beam , no legend or totem on the tender, the flat smokebox door and piston tail rods on this loco. Also shows the steam reversing gear very well. And just look at the front footplate, bent out of shape and level!!

 

These photos are really priceless sources of information and this one, as always, is courtesy Mick Nicholson.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P3280027.JPG

B16_61462_Dairycoates_.jpg

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It's a couple of weeks since last I posted to this thread and I was just scrolling through the last few postings when, all of a sudden, I was confronted by adverts, in among the postings.

 

Just for the record, I didn't add these adverts and don't necessarily endore the organisations shown, so how have they appeared here?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

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On 23/07/2019 at 13:59, mikemeg said:

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

Finally, let's include a photo of a likely prototype candidate for this B16/1, with the 49A boiler (carried 10/47 - 12/51, then reverted to an original 49 pattern boiler), plain splashers, etc. and then see what other characteristics this loco exhibits in the very early days of British Railways. So, 61462 under the coaling plant at Hull Dairycoates shed. Note the number painted on the buffer beam , no legend or totem on the tender, the flat smokebox door and piston tail rods on this loco. Also shows the steam reversing gear very well. And just look at the front footplate, bent out of shape and level!!

 

Hi Mike,

 

I reckon that B16 still has LNER on the tender. There seem to be  marks in about the right place.  Three quarter views often make mucky tenders appear blank, see for example 61705 on the LNER Encyclopedia B7 page: https://www.lner.info/locos/B/b7.php  Other photos at the same time show LNER on the tender.

 

Also 61462 was renumbered in 8/49. Its previous general was in 1947 and its next one was in 1951 as you note for the boiler swap dates.  That makes it quite likely the tender wasn't repainted. 

 

Simon

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The photograph of the 4125 tender is from a B16 as it still has both brake and scoop handles. The Q7 wasn't fitted with water pickup.

 

ArthurK

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22 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

Hi Mike,

 

I reckon that B16 still has LNER on the tender. There seem to be  marks in about the right place.  Three quarter views often make mucky tenders appear blank, see for example 61705 on the LNER Encyclopedia B7 page: https://www.lner.info/locos/B/b7.php  Other photos at the same time show LNER on the tender.

 

Also 61462 was renumbered in 8/49. Its previous general was in 1947 and its next one was in 1951 as you note for the boiler swap dates.  That makes it quite likely the tender wasn't repainted. 

 

Simon

 

Simon,

 

Many thanks for the comments and, on much closer inspection, I think you're right that the tender still carried the LNER legend. Could the LNER legend have simply been painted over, leaving slightly darker marks?

 

All of that makes this particular loco very suitable to represent as a mid-1950 model.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

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26 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

 

Simon,

 

Many thanks for the comments and, on much closer inspection, I think you're right that the tender still carried the LNER legend. Could the LNER legend have simply been painted over, leaving slightly darker marks?

 

All of that makes this particular loco very suitable to represent as a mid-1950 model.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Presumably Darlington fitted the BR emblem to 61462 in December 1951 at the General.  I am surprised, however, that the opportunity to replace the tender wit BR lettering wasn't taken when the loco spent 4 months in works in June-July '49 and Jan-Feb 1950. Admittedly, neither were Generals, but guidance to "publicise" BR meant that locos were adorned with the lettering/crest at every opportunity. 

I do accept, of course, that the photo shows no trace of BR lettering, and wonder if LNER was simply painted over?

Part of the fun of loco building and the search for authenticity.

John

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Here's a 'dodge' which might be useful when soldering an 8 or 10BA bolt into the body of an etched kit to provide a fixing for the body and chassis. Now if, like me, you find difficulty in doing this without solder getting into the thread of the bolt, or the bolt not being square when soldered, then this may help.

 

Using a piece of scrap etch, or any .012" brass, around 6 mm x 14 mm, drill a hole in the centre of the brass piece. Open the hole up, with broaches and/or files until the hole will just pass over and accommodate an 8 BA or 10 BA nut; whichever is being used. When the bottom of the nut and the brass piece are flush, solder the nut into the brass piece, avoiding the top of the nut.

 

Once cool then screw an 8BA or 10BA screw from the underside of the component (footplate) which is to carry the nut and solder the ends of the brass carrier piece to the footplate - not yet done on this example. This technique does produce a much stronger fixing than simply soldering the nut directly to the footplate

 

Perhaps the photo explains the technique.

 

Perhaps also worth mentioning that each and every piece of brass or nickel silver, for an etched kit, should be lightly abraded with a glass fibre brush prior to soldering. Amazing what a difference this makes to the ease of soldering and the robustness of the soldered joint.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1010031.JPG

Edited by mikemeg
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That’s an interesting technique Mike but if you’re going to the trouble of cutting and drilling a piece of brass shim why not solder it over the etched hole in the kit part. Then drill a new hole to tapping size for 8 or 10BA using the etch hole as a guide and then use a hand tap to make the thread?

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I suspect I am not alone in finding that sometimes nuts come away from their mount - sometimes buried somewhere nigh on impossible to reach due to follow on work enclosing them.  They can be under a dollop of stress as the bolt is inserted, even after being tapped.

 

To overcome this, I now often put a ring of wire around the outside of the nut just before I solder it in place.  This increases the area of contact for the solder and strengthens the joint.

 

 

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On 13/08/2019 at 21:36, Portchullin Tatty said:

... a dollop of stress ....

 

Hey Mark, I've been in the aircraft stress analysis business for more years than I care to remember and I've never heard stress referred to in quite that way before.  It must be something that only you concrete and re-bar boys use...:D

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I have two techniques that I use.

 

The safest way  is use a wooden cocktail stick insert the through the hole and into the nut, screw it tight with the fingers to form a thread on the cocktail stick, then apply flux and solder. The thread on cocktail prevents solder getting onto the brass thread.

 

The other method (to be used with caution) is to add a washer to the bolt then through the part and nut. Tighten the bolt very firmly then apply a good fillet of solder around the nut.  Don't overdo the flux and keep the solder away from the top of the nut!  Well it usually works for me!!!

 

ArhurK

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Maybe I'm missing something but I always use a steel bolt, oiled if necessary. That keeps the nut aligned and the threads clear, and there's no chance of soldering everything up. 

 

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