Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[jazz]

9 hours ago, ArthurK said:

I have two techniques that I use.

 

The safest way  is use a wooden cocktail stick insert the through the hole and into the nut, screw it tight with the fingers to form a thread on the cocktail stick, then apply flux and solder. The thread on cocktail prevents solder getting onto the brass thread.

 

The other method (to be used with caution) is to add a washer to the bolt then through the part and nut. Tighten the bolt very firmly then apply a good fillet of solder around the nut.  Don't overdo the flux and keep the solder away from the top of the nut!  Well it usually works for me!!!

 

ArhurK

Your second method works for me every time.

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

The final part of producing the diagrammatic instructions for this kit, involves the assembly of the ex-North Eastern 4125 gallon tender, as fitted to the North Eastern Class S3's / LNER B16's. To produce these instructions it has been necessary to part build the tender, not so much to remind me of what needed to be done as to remind me of the sequence in which it needed to be done. As can be seen, I've opted against the bent front footplate (or at least I have intended to opt against it!!) and one or two other signs of prototypical wear and tear.

 

Anyway, as a check, those sub-assemblies so far produced, have been put together, without any fixing, to check levels, fit, dome and chimney seating, etc. Once again relying on the unerringly critical view of the digital camera!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

And just for something slightly different, here's another one of those black and white photos; this one of Hull Botanic Gardens shed in 1952. Like so many of these shed views, this one is a lovely essay in light and shade with its complement of 'three dimensional' shafts of sunlight flooding the smoky air and the floor of the shed and striking various parts of various locos. A few ex-Great Northern C12's on this one, along with an ex-North Eastern G5.

 

Again, the photo is courtesy Mick Nicholson and is a wonderfully evocative reminder of these amazing places on a bright, sunny day.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

So, having got thus far and before I resume work on the B1 chassis, perhaps I'll progress the second B16/1 build a little further,

 

Anyway, one of those 'moments of truth' !

 

Does the firebox pass through the cab front with no gaps and no distortion of the cab front, allowing the cab sides to sit parallel and squarely on the rear footplate, such that the boiler sits absolutely parallel to the footplate and there are no gaps between the firebox and the middle and rear splashers?

 

If the answers to this 'compound' question are all yes, with nothing yet fixed, then all is well to proceed.

 

The smokebox door is also not yet fixed but is simply resting in  the smokebox and yes, there was much polishing with the fibre brush prior to taking this photograph.

 

Now it begins to look like a B16/1.

 

For any readers who fancy a go at this kit, then it is now available from London Road Models. I would also advise anyone building this kit to purchase the Isinglass drawing for the B16/1; it's well worth it and covers all of the variations through the lives of these locos. As ever, I recommend these items only as a satisfied customer. 

 

I've been asked, a few times, if I specially pose and light the models to photograph them. The answer is yes. I use coloured sheets of art paper, curved through 90 degrees, as backgrounds; I light them with a daylight lamp and I use macro mode, with a focal length down to around 9", on an old Olympus Camedia digital camera. This camera produces .jpg files which are small enough to fall within the upload limits of any of the modelling sites and which will upload in a few seconds.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by mikemeg

[Jon4470]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

 

 

For any readers who fancy a go at this kit, then it is now available from London Road Models.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Hello Mike

 

That’s looking very good - worth all the elbow grease!

 

Pleased to say that I bought this kit on Saturday - and that I wasn’t the only one.

 

I must congratulate you on the instructions- they are most comprehensive an£ almost need a box of their own!

 

I’m looking forward to building this in 1938 condition.

 

Jon

[micklner]

Mike,

         No price for the B16 kit on the LRM site ??

[Jon4470]

Hi Mick 

 

It was £155 - I bought it at EM show in Wakefield. Talking to John I think he hasn’t quite launched it officially ...I expect a phone call or email will get confirmation of availability.

 

Jon

[micklner]

22 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi Mick 

 

It was £155 - I bought it at EM show in Wakefield. Talking to John I think he hasn’t quite launched it officially ...I expect a phone call or email will get confirmation of availability.

 

Jon

Jon

 

Many thanks for info.

[mikemeg]

5 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Hello Mike

 

That’s looking very good - worth all the elbow grease!

 

Pleased to say that I bought this kit on Saturday - and that I wasn’t the only one.

 

I must congratulate you on the instructions- they are most comprehensive an£ almost need a box of their own!

 

I’m looking forward to building this in 1938 condition.

 

Jon

 

Thanks Jon,

 

I've never done a complete set of instructions so this was very much a learning exercise. I'm sure I've missed some key points; if so then just e-mail me or ask here on the thread. As you've probably gathered, I've enjoyed every aspect of this B16/1 project and really hope that you enjoy the build as much as I have. 

 

I really must stop taking these 7 mm scale photos of 4 mm scale models; it doesn't flatter them and is not actually deliberate; just the editing process.

 

Anyway, if kits have been bought then I'll keep on posting this build.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

And, once again, just by way of something a little different, here's another of those black and white photos; this one of a B16/3 - the Thompson rebuild of the B16/1. As always, the photo is courtesy Mick Nicholson and shows the loco - 61472 of Hull Dairycoates shed - passing Hessle, near Hull, not long before its withdrawal.

 

I'm never sure if the readers of this (or any) thread find these photos interesting? For me they are a lasting reminder of the railway we knew and loved in the days of steam and, as such, are priceless. For we can never take these photos ever again.

 

Interesting that the cab side windows appear to have been moved closer to the cab roof, on this locomotive. Was this a modification made to all of the B16/3 rebuilds?  Makes a real and very positive difference to the look of the locomotive. Now with this modified cab and had the drive been to the middle set of drivers a la the B1, then this would have been one of the most handsome 4-6-0's ever built!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Or, perhaps, this one!

 

Taken at Hessle Haven in around 1960 and - judging from the position and length of shadow on a line travelling East to West, around midday - so sometime close to the winter solstice, December 21st. Again a B16/3, though taken before any of these locos were allocated to Hull.

 

This location, on the bridge into Hessle Shipyard, was a much favoured spot for photographing trains into and out of Hull and a number of photographers recorded the comings and goings of the trains from this spot.

 

Like the photo above, this one, courtesy Mick Nicholson, just speaks so eloquently of its time and the railway of the late 1950's / early 1960's.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

Another thing I should mention with regards to this kit is the boiler bands. The kit does contain an etch of brass boiler bands but I opted to use some produced by Arthur for his North Eastern Kits range. These boiler bands, available as a separate item, are etched in .004" nickel silver and I normally thin them, just with fine emery paper, to around .002" which equates to a scale thickness of just over 1/8".

 

Arthur also supplies castings for the North Eastern pattern mechanical lubricators as a separate item.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[ArthurK]

12 hours ago, mikemeg said:

And, once again, just by way of something a little different, here's another of those black and white photos; this one of a B16/3 - the Thompson rebuild of the B16/1. As always, the photo is courtesy Mick Nicholson and shows the loco - 61472 of Hull Dairycoates shed - passing Hessle, near Hull, not long before its withdrawal.

 

I'm never sure if the readers of this (or any) thread find these photos interesting? For me they are a lasting reminder of the railway we knew and loved in the days of steam and, as such, are priceless. For we can never take these photos ever again.

 

Interesting that the cab side windows appear to have been moved closer to the cab roof, on this locomotive. Was this a modification made to all of the B16/3 rebuilds?  Makes a real and very positive difference to the look of the locomotive. Now with this modified cab and had the drive been to the middle set of drivers a la the B1, then this would have been one of the most handsome 4-6-0's ever built!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

When these locos were rebuilt to B16/2 (Gresley) or B16/3 (Thompson) the cabs were restyled after the LNER fashion. The windows of NER cabs were considered to be too low and the were raised for these rebuilds. The Q5 rebuilds got a similar treatment but on those the cab was basically the same as the J39.

 

The second photo is a B16/2. It retains the right-hand drive of the B16/1

 

ArthurK

[Jol Wilkinson]

21 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi Mick 

 

It was £155 - I bought it at EM show in Wakefield. Talking to John I think he hasn’t quite launched it officially ...I expect a phone call or email will get confirmation of availability.

 

Jon

The  kit price is now shown on the website. Apparently the first (small) batch sold out at ExpoEM Autumn in Wakefield but an email to;

 

londonroadmodels@btinternet.com 

 

will  provide an update on availability.

[mikemeg]

On ‎11‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 13:32, ArthurK said:

 

 

When these locos were rebuilt to B16/2 (Gresley) or B16/3 (Thompson) the cabs were restyled after the LNER fashion. The windows of NER cabs were considered to be too low and the were raised for these rebuilds. The Q5 rebuilds got a similar treatment but on those the cab was basically the same as the J39.

 

The second photo is a B16/2. It retains the right-hand drive of the B16/1

 

ArthurK

 

Thanks Arthur, clears up my query beautifully.

 

As regards my question about posting the photographs, then I guess the response to the B16/3 photo  - 61472 - above, answers that too. Thanks to all those who responded.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

The cab roof, on this  kit, is comprised of two layers. The outer layer contains the etched detail and the witness marks for rows of rivets; the inner layer contains the grooves for the cab roof rib supports. I rolled both layers, using the boiler roller, to the radius of the cab front, checking that both layers were of the same radius. The cab roof rivets, on the upper layer, were then carefully pressed out and the side portions of the lower layer were folded down to the vertical. The rears of the inner layer side supports were then both profiled to the shape of the cab side tops. Once everything checks and lines up then the two layers were soldered together.

 

The cab roof rib supports were then also rolled to the same radius and soldered into the half etched grooves on the underside of the cab roof. Then a check to ensure that the cab roof assembly is :-

 

a) Square with itself.

 

b) Of exactly the same radius as the cab front i.e. there are no gaps and that both cab sides were still square and parallel.

 

Now the cab roof support ribs can be assembled and soldered into the witness marks on the rib supports. I will also augment the cab roof rain strips with some flattened 0.5 mm wire curved to profile and then soldered to the cab roof.

 

Again, the photos, of necessity, are more 7mm / ft. than 4 mm in order to show the detail.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

Finally, before the cab assembly is further progressed, a check on whether the cab front passes over the rear of the rear splashers without any deformation of the cab front and without any gaps showing. If, and only if, this is the case can I move onto the next stages of the cab assembly. The rebates, in the cab front, to accommodate the rear splashers did need the tiniest (perhaps .005" removal) touch of the needle file to achieve this squareness.

 

The cab assembly and the cab roof are not yet fixed and won't be until later in the build.

 

The 'all seeing digital camera' says that it seems ok, so I can proceed.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

This 'unusual' build sequence continues, though having proved the new etches then perhaps I can get back to a more ordered build sequence. Anyway, a quick set up of the model so far, to record the 'state of play', before I crack on with detailing the loco superstructure, the chassis and with finishing the tender.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

Only a little progress over the last few days as the 'Indian Summer' of the last four days has prompted the doing of some jobs in the garden, in readiness for the winter. However, after completing the addition of the washout plugs on the upper part of the firebox, the cab interior and roof, then another 'dry run' check to see that everything fits and that all of the separate sub-assemblies - footplate, smokebox saddle, boiler/firebox, cab and cab roof - still fit together when none of them are actually fixed yet.

 

The circular washout plugs fitted to the 49a boiler (the original 49 boiler used oval shaped wash out plugs) were filed up from the oval etches supplied in Arthur's North Eastern kits. There are always more than are needed on the etch strip in the kits, so the excess ones are saved. The top photo, below, shows my method for representing and fitting the washout plugs using 0.6mm brass rod soldered into the firebox and then cut back to around .5 mm above the washout plug cover. The amount of 0.6 mm rod protruding into the firebox should be minimal as, otherwise, it will interfere with the motor positioning.

 

Taken from this angle, the daylight strip, under the boiler, is a good indication of whether (or not) the boiler is absolutely horizontal and parallel with the footplate. The digital camera as arbiter, once again; as a result of which the cab roof and rear footplate have been slightly adjusted for level!

 

I guess to some builders I seem to do a lot of checking as the build progresses. I can only own up to this; I do. But any discrepancies are much easier to identify (especially with the digital camera) and fix in this separated state than when all of the sub-assemblies are fixed together.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

Having assembled the mainframes, with their springs, axleboxes, etc. then the next step is the folding up and assembly of the cylinders. Before the cylinder wrappers are added, to the front and rear cylinder formers, a check on the inclination of the front and rear cylinder formers by running a 0.9 mm brass rod through the two formers and ensuring that the rod passes through the centre of the front axle. The inclination and fit of the motion plate can also be checked by the same process.

 

All of the various slots in the mainframes, where the frame spacers have located, have been filled with solder and then dressed flush, as have the pivot points for the compensating beams, so that they will be invisible when the mainframes are painted.

 

Looks ok so I can now move onto adding the cylinder wrappers and then the cylinder covers, front and rear, with the slide bars on the rear covers and the piston tail rods on the front covers. At this point, I'll also take the opportunity to reduce the radius of the bogie wheel cut outs, in the mainframes, to a 'closer to scale' clearance between the bogie wheels and their mainframe cut outs.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited November 15, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1's

 

When I built the first of these London Road Models B16/1's, I delayed painting it as I thought I might need to build a second example using the additions to the original etches, which proved to be the case. So the first build was kept in the de-humidified cupboard to prevent the brass from tarnishing, so that I could check the major sub-assemblies on the second build against the corresponding assemblies on the first build, which has proved a useful check.

 

So, the two builds appear together on a photograph. The only real visible differences are :-

 

The smokebox doors - the second build (to be 61462) has a much flatter door than the first build - from photographic evidence, 61462 had a flatter smokebox door - on a 49a pattern boiler - in 1950, than most of the rest of the class, which had more domed smokebox doors.

 

Dome position - the LNER designed 49a pattern boiler had the dome further to the rear than the original North Eastern 49 pattern boiler. though both boiler types were fitted interchangeably, at major overhaul, throughout the lives of these locos.

 

The splasher fronts - the first 55 locos built had beaded splasher fronts; the last 15 built had plain splasher fronts.

 

The shape and positions of the washout plugs - oval on the 49 pattern boiler; circular on the 49a pattern boiler.

 

The relative lengths of fireboxes and boilers - plus 2mm (6") on the firebox length and minus 2mm (6") on the boiler length of the second build, which has the LNER designed 49a boiler, such that the smokeboxes of both models are exactly level.

 

Anyway, here they both are with the second build now progressing more quickly. None of the major sub-assemblies, on either build, is yet fixed to allow for easy removal and cross checking.

 

I can't believe that this thread is approaching 100,000 views. So, whoever does the 99,999th view, just do another one - please!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

The equalised front bogie has been assembled and the component parts primed, ready for the application of the weathered black. The assembled bogie will also be sprung when mounted onto its 8BA central bearing.

 

The components are retained together by the bogie wheels and axles, so no further fixing is required, though the front and rear bogie frame stretchers still need to be added where the end holes are located.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

Progress on this B16/1 is still stuttering along. Previous excuse for the slowness was the need to put the garden 'to bed' for the winter. Now I'm packing up my belongings in preparation for a house move, though moving only about a half mile.

 

In amongst all of this dismantling and packing, some work on the B16/1 has been done with the cylinders being completed. First the circular wrappers were rolled by hand, using a suitable diameter rod as a former, and then soldered to the front and rear of the cylinder formers. On these North Eastern cylinders I never attempt to form the complete wrapper, including the straight portion, in one piece as I can never achieve the crispness of the transition, simply by bending the wrapper. 

 

So the straight part of the cylinder wrapper, adjacent to the valance, is a separate piece, with the bottom edge 'feathered' into the circular portion and then the joint is filled with solder and carefully dressed off. The resulting wrapper does then have that definite transition from curved to straight. The two photos, below, illustrate the result.

 

Now there will be another short delay while I acquire the High Level gearbox but now it does begin to look like a B16/1!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

In amongst  the welter of packed boxes and all of the other paraphernalia associated with moving house - where has all of this stuff come from and do I really need it all; of course the answer is no? - the second B16/1 waits for further progress to be made. and a little has been made!

 

The bogie wheel cut outs, in the mainframes, have been reduced in diameter to around 13.25 mm from 14.0 mm. The mainframes have been painted and partially weathered, before any wheels were fitted. The chassis has then been wheeled and the wheels quartered, though they should actually be orientated at 120 degrees to each other as this was/is a three cylinder loco.

 

So, after all of that a check on the ride height, which is level and at the correct height, and the free running of the coupling rods on the wheelsets, prior to adding the crank pin collets.

 

Runs nicely, in this state, so now the motor can be properly orientated, the rear motor shaft cropped off and then the rest of the motion can be assembled, tested and fitted.

 

Will this be finished before I move house - probably? Looks a little like a restoration job (if only a B16 had survived!) when the restorers run out a 'rolling chassis' for the first time! 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER B16/1

 

So a little more progress on the B16/1, now turning attention to the slide bars and the crossheads.   Before tackling the slide bars, crossheads and piston rods, it is worth thickening the rear cylinder castings which also contain the slide bars. As supplied, these castings are around. 030" (.75 mm) too shallow when compared to the Isinglass drawing and photographs. I augmented the thickness of these castings with a disc of .030 plasticard, as I shall be superglueing the cylinder rears to the assembled cylinders. Makes the final adjusting and positioning just that bit easier.

 

Next operation is to achieve a free sliding crosshead casting within the slide bars. This is just a tedious job, carefully reducing the width of the slide bars, while opening up the top and bottom crosshead channels until the crosshead slides freely over the full travel within the slide bars. The piston rod can then be shortened, again very gradually, until the crosshead travels to slightly short of the piston gland when the assembly is held against the cylinder rear.

 

For attaching the connecting rod to the crosshead, I normally turn up steel pins, from steel tacks, just using an old pin chuck which is twisted in the fingers. This pin is then soldered to the rear of the connecting rod, as the crosshead casting does not have a rear face to align the pin and enclose the little end bearing. So the front face of the casting provides the bearing to the shouldered pin, which is around 0.8 mm diameter through the little end bearing. One trick I do use when opening holes, to the same diameter, is to use a suitable broach as the check.

 

Anyway, the photo shows the assembly which is now ready to be fitted.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by mikemeg