Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

I checked on the start date of this thread, which was July 10th, 2015. However, I did have an earlier thread, on an earlier incarnation of RMWeb, which covered a number of builds done between 2011 and 2015. One such build, done as a test, was Arthur's North Eastern kits B15. This build was completed in all respects except the provision of some castings, which were still being finalised when the build was done. Basically that test build was done to establish the fit of the etches, both of the loco superstructure and of the chassis, though it was taken to a fully powered stage. I remember we had a couple of iterations on the chassis before it was finalised, largely due to the very tight clearances - 1/2" on the real thing - between the crossheads and front crankpins, especially in P4.

 

I know some kit producers will do or will commission test builds which are never powered; they are done solely to check the accuracy and fit of the etches. I took the view that if the kit could be built, then it could be powered and run but that was largely because I was not responsible for the design of the etched parts.

 

Anyway, I've referred to my 'airtight tin', where such models have been stored, often for several years. Well as I try and work, systematically, through this backlog, came the turn of the B15. So having completed the six tenders, then it is now time to add the final details to and then paint the B15. The chassis has been oiled and greased and ran without any problems, so no rectification to do there.

 

So, as this model goes through a thorough cleaning process, prior to adding the castings which are now all available, here's a couple of photos of the prototype. I only have a very small number of photos of this class, all courtesy Mick Nicholson, so if anyone wants to post any more, please feel free.

 

I'm not sure of the date, or location, of the first photo but the second was taken at Ferriby, some six or seven miles west of Hull, in February 1945. Hull Dairycoates shed was the 'last resting place' of quite a number of ex-North Eastern classes, simply because the lines, radiating from Hull, were so flat. Those lines imposing less onerous demands on locos which were, by then, 'clapped out'.

 

These locos - NER ClassS2/LNER B15 - were probably much more aesthetically pleasing than the later and much more numerous and successful NER Class S3/LNER B16.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by mikemeg
Restoration of images

[mikemeg]

So this is the model as it 'saw the light of day' after several years in the airtight box and this is where I start from in completing this model. The chassis has been oiled (bearings and motion joints) and silicone grease applied (the high level gears) and then run in for a couple of hours and has displayed no snatching or catching, though the slow running isn't quite yet down to the required level.

 

The last of these was withdrawn in 1947, so never saw a British Railways number and only a few of them ever carried an LNER 1946 number. So this is well outside my mid-1950 timeframe for Hessle Haven. 

 

Anyway, mysteriously found languishing in an abandoned outpost of Hull Dairycoates shed, the entrance to which had been bricked up and forgotten; an ex-NER Class S2, LNER Class B15.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by mikemeg
Restoration of image

[30368]

6 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

So this is the model as it 'saw the light of day' after several years in the airtight box and this is where I start from in completing this model.

Lovely work Mike.

I think (and hope) I will build some more ex NER loco's rather like the look of the Atlantics and some of the big tanks.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[mikemeg]

59 minutes ago, 30368 said:

Lovely work Mike.

I think (and hope) I will build some more ex NER loco's rather like the look of the Atlantics and some of the big tanks.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Richard,

 

Many thanks for that, it is much appreciated.

 

All of the pre and post grouping railways had some lovely locomotives and we are spoilt for choice as to what we build. Year before last, I saw my first rebuilt Merchant Navy (the full size version) here in Scarborough. It was one of the most impressive of the last generation of express passenger locos that I've ever seen and, of course, was in absolutely pristine condition. Its departure, on the Scarborough Spa Express with fourteen on, was something to behold and was beheld by around a couple of hundred folks crowded on the platform or arrayed along the walls adjacent to the station.

 

Amazing to realise that these were originally built around seventy five years ago and even in their rebuilt form now more than sixty years ago.

 

Once again, many thanks.

 

Best regards

 

Mike

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by mikemeg

[30368]

38 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

All of the pre and post grouping railways had some lovely locomotives and we are spoilt for choice as to what we build. Year before last, I saw my first rebuilt Merchant Navy (the full size version) here in Scarborough.

 

Fourteen coaches is a fair load so the start must have been something! Did the driver treat her gently and got away without slipping or did he just use brut force? Great pictures Mike and thanks for posting them, incidently, as you probably know, British India Line was unique having a bend in the vacuum ejector pipe above the nameplate and was the first converted.

 

As an apprentice back in the early 1960's I was given a footplate pass for a month as part of my training and had a number of great runs on Bulleid Pacifics and Standard loco's. Most memorable was with 35017 Belgium Marine on a run from Southampton to Waterloo non-stop - touched 100MPH on Battledown Flyover I recall the driver tapping me on the shoulder (you could not hear much over the roar) and pointing to the speedo. A joy!

 

Now we are "up north" I must visit Scarborough again although its probably changed a bit since the 1970s!

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[mikemeg]

Richard,

 

No, the start was very serene with not a hint of a slip but a hell of a lot of steam as the drain cocks were open. Last year on this same train, which is run every Thursday from June - September,  Jubilee 45562 - Alberta - took out the same load unaided and again, without a hint of a slip.

 

Another couple of photos, this time of 'Scotsman' on its first test run - York to Scarborough and back - after overhaul in 2016. And this loco is approaching a hundred years old!! Still looks so modern with its German 'blinkers'. They had to close the station to non-travellers on this day; obvious why!!

 

The track layout and signalling at Scarborough were revised and updated a few years ago, which included much better provision for the handling of steam specials involving relaying the carriage sidings and the road to the turntable. Platform 1 at Scarborough Station is still long enough to accommodate fifteen or sixteen coach trains and the entry and exit to this platform, from the main lines, was also improved in the layout revision.

 

Now we even have locomotives (new Class 68's) on the scheduled services to Liverpool, etc. with five coach push/pull trains.

 

A far cry from the 'mooted' total closure of Scarborough's railways in the 1970's.

 

Best regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by mikemeg

[30368]

2 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Now we even have locomotives (new Class 68's) on the scheduled services to Liverpool, etc. with five coach push/pull trains.

 

Mike,

 

Having retired finally in 2011 you get so out of date quickly.

That's really good news, class 68 + 5 push - pull operation. I (successfully) did the fleet plan for a number of franchise bids in the noughties and one of the real issues for the UK based rolling stock/traction fleets is the dominance of multiple units making it expensive (or lucrative if you were a Rolling Stock Leasing Company) if you wanted to increase train stregnth. Push - pull is much more the norm in Europe so if you want more seat just add a coach or two. Much cheaper.

 

Again, great pictures 60103 looks quite wonderfull. A picture or two I took of her at Basingstoke in 1964(?).

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

 

 

[mikemeg]

Here's one for all of the loco weathering practitioners and seems to be the result of serious chalk deposits from water leaks or, perhaps, the biggest seagull ever seen! The photo, shown courtesy of Mick Nicholson, was taken in May 1946 and shows a working loco in one of the worst states that I've ever seen. I'm not sure that any model loco 'weatherer' would want to reproduce this!!

 

As this model will represent the state of the prototype - though not the one below - post war, then I should worry about a little discolouration and tarnishing of the brass!!

 

The photo was taken at Hull Paragon Station and the loco is one of the B15's which survived  after the war,  though not for very long. Only four B15's received new numbers in the 1946 renumbering scheme - 815/19/20/21 to become 1693/5/6/7.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by mikemeg
Restoration of image

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Much better looking than the B16, and my, don't they have big Seagulls in Hull !!!

 

manna

[mikemeg]

Following on from one of the posts above and if I may be allowed one more 'off topic' posting, a couple more photographs. I referred, above, to the pristine condition of the Merchant Navy on The Scarborough Spa Express, a couple of years ago. Well, if that one was pristine, this one - a frequent visitor last year - was 'show room'. In all the years of spotting trains I don't think I ever saw very many in quite this condition.

 

Probably also worth mentioning that because Scarborough's Platform 1 is a single line platform - there is no crossover allowing engine release and no station pilot - the arriving loco on this train pushes the empty train back into the carriage sidings before running round the train to gain access to the turntable. After turning, the process is then done in reverse, with the loco pushing the train back into the platform; all fourteen coaches of it!

 

As a lady said, who was photographing next to me on this day, 'Oh that is just beautiful!'.

 

So it was!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by mikemeg

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

If I may, isn't the 'Green' on the Jubilee, very similar to the Green on the New A2/2 and A2/3, and to me looks to light !! I wonder if Hornby copied it ?

 

manna. Sorry to go OT. 

[mikemeg]

8 hours ago, manna said:

G'day Folks

 

If I may, isn't the 'Green' on the Jubilee, very similar to the Green on the New A2/2 and A2/3, and to me looks to light !! I wonder if Hornby copied it ?

 

manna. Sorry to go OT. 

 

I wouldn't worry about going OT. I do it on this thread - occasionally.

 

The BR green colour, on preserved locos, does appear as different shades, under different sunlight conditions - strength and inclination of the sun. And I do wonder if there is a single source or multiple sources for this paint and this colour, which might explain any differences?

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER B15

 

Do you ever build a model, get near to completion, photograph it or just appraise it, and think something just isn't quite right? That's the feeling I experienced when I compared the photo of the model of the B15 against a photograph of the prototype. It was only after a few minutes of such comparison, lubricated with a glass of something red and alcoholic that I realised - It's the chimney; it's not quite right. It is amazing how many times I ask these questions of chimneys and domes and get the same answer.

 

So, off came the original white metal casting and on went a lost wax brass one. Even then, though it was better, it still didn't quite pass muster. Anyway, after a wee bit of filing, tweaking and fettling, the thing looked right. Lots of other missing details have been added - balance weights, mechanical lubricator, vacuum pipe, etc. - and this is now about ready for a coat of grey primer. I should add that I had fitted the original white metal casting which Arthur had replaced with a much improved lost wax brass version, after I'd done the test build.

 

I'm also just finishing a short 'loco works' diorama, incorporating a piece of track  and a paint shop wall (with suitable windows), on which to photograph the models. My old mate Mick Nicholson will be pleased. He's been telling me for ages that I need a better photographic backdrop.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by mikemeg
Restoration of image

[Daddyman]

31 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

My old mate Mick Nicholson will be pleased. He's been telling me for ages that I need a better photographic backdrop.

 

Has he now! I'll be in trouble next, then! Like you, I always photograph mine "in the void".    

[ArthurK]

Mike,

I have never been a hundred percent happy with the B15 chimney the radius below the lip is too big. Never had the opportunity to make amends!

 

ArthurK

Edited March 18, 2021 by ArthurK
spelling

[Pebbles]

26 minutes ago, ArthurK said:

Mike,

I have never been a hundred percent happy with the B15 chimney the radius below the lip is too big. Never had the opportunity to make amends!

 

ArthurK

Should have shot the pattern maker!

[mikemeg]

1 hour ago, ArthurK said:

Mike,

I have never been a hundred percent happy with the B15 chimney the radius below the lip is too big. Never had the opportunity to make amends!

 

ArthurK

 

Arthur,

 

The brass B15 chimney is far better than the white metal version. When I referred to the 'tweaking and fettling' which I did, this was actually to reduce the radius below the lip and also slightly reduce the radius  into the seating on the smokebox. I did this very slowly - you can't put metal back - but with a few minutes with the circular and then elliptical needle files I think I have 'got the shape' when compared to prototype photos.

 

So the brass B15 casting is very close to the prototype shape and the drawing of this chimney in the North Eastern Record book.

 

Many thanks for your input, Arthur. The resulting model is still one of my favourites of all of your kits!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

While I continue to work through the jobs to be completed, now made slightly longer by virtue of bringing the two sections of the railway into the house, I've acquired a London Road Models N8 kit. So, as a counterpoint to the systematic progression through the list of outstanding jobs, I can also focus on the building of this kit.

 

First step is the footplate. When I form the footplates, on any 4mm loco model, wherever possible I reinforce the underside, immediately behind the valances, such that the loco footplate is as straight and rigid as I can make it, in its own right. This rather than relying on valances, tank sides/cab/bunker assemblies to provide the straightness and rigidity. So a number of strips of .015" nickel silver strip were soldered to the underside of the footplate. These provide two facilities :-

 

1) Reinforcing the footplate and

2) Providing an 'edge' to which the valances and buffer beams can be soldered.

 

The photo shows the underside footplate preparation, prior to adding the valances and buffer beams.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by mikemeg
Restoration of image

[Chas Levin]

6 hours ago, mikemeg said:

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

While I continue to work through the jobs to be completed, now made slightly longer by virtue of bringing the two sections of the railway into the house, I've acquired a London Road Models N8 kit. So, as a counterpoint to the systematic progression through the list of outstanding jobs, I can also focus o the building of this kit.

 

First step is the footplate. When I form the footplates, on any 4mm loco model, wherever possible I reinforce the underside, immediately behind the valances, such that the loco footplate is as straight and rigid as I can make it, in its own right. This rather than relying on valances, tank sides/cab/bunker assemblies to provide the straightness and rigidity. So a number of strips of .015" nickel silver strip were soldered to the underside of the footplate. These provide two facilities :-

 

1) Reinforcing the footplate and

2) Providing an 'edge' to which the valances and buffer beams can be soldered.

 

The photo shows the underside footplate preparation, prior to adding the valances and buffer beams.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

This is an excellent system Mike; I didn't do anything like this on my current build (my first etched loco, in my defence) and realised - too late to correct it - that the footplate had aquired a very slight curvature on part of one side. You have to look along the line of the footplate at eye-level to see it, but it's there.

I'd been thinking on and off about ways to prevent it on future builds and this looks simple and effective: thank you for posting and explaining .

[mikemeg]

Chas,

 

Thanks for the posting.

 

I should have added, in my post above, that I do leave some spaces, in these added strips, to accommodate the footplate steps both at the tank fronts and the cab openings. This approach also means that the front and rear of the mainframe tops need to be recessed (.015" x 1.5 mm; the thickness and width of the nickel silver strips) in order to fit around the strips situated adjacent to the buffer beams. These tiny recesses are invisible from any normal viewing angle of the model.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

The valances have now been soldered to the footplate. The buffer beams have been assembled and then modified by the adding of a row of three bolts at the top and the bottom of the beam. These are spaced 4 mm apart, with the centre bolt, of the three added, exactly over or under the coupling hook slot. The bolts were fashioned by drilling from the back of the buffer beam until a mark showed through on the other side of the beam, without going right through the two layers of metal. The mark was then gently pushed out, over a piece of plasticard, with a slightly blunted compass point to produce a bolt head like indentation.

 

At this point, a photo of the chosen prototype for this model; 69382 allocated to Hull Dairycoates shed in mid 1950. At this time, this loco carried a saturated boiler, was not vacuum fitted and still sported its clack valves and North Eastern pattern buffers. The photo is courtesy  of Mick Nicholson.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by mikemeg
Restoration of images

[mikemeg]

Just for comparison, here's a 1947 photo of the next numbered loco in the N8 number series - 9383. This one differs in a number of respects from its lower numbered neighbour i.e. LNER Group Standard buffers and draw gear, steel/wood/steel 'sandwich' buffer beam, absence of clack valves, mechanical lubricator carried on footplate, whistle carried on firebox top, etc.

 

Again, the photo is courtesy Mick Nicholson

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by mikemeg
Restoration of images

[Chas Levin]

12 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Chas,

 

Thanks for the posting.

 

I should have added, in my post above, that I do leave some spaces, in these added strips, to accommodate the footplate steps both at the tank fronts and the cab openings. This approach also means that the front and rear of the mainframe tops need to be recessed (.015" x 1.5 mm; the thickness and width of the nickel silver strips) in order to fit around the strips situated adjacent to the buffer beams. These tiny recesses are invisible from any normal viewing angle of the model.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

Mike,

 

Thanks for the further notes; I had already thought that there would need to be some careful planning involved, to work out how various other parts fitted in, as these strips aren't part of the kit. That's fine though, it adds to the challenge . I've ended up modifying my current build to allow for tighter curves; I being to think that's one advantage brass has over whitemetal, that it can be modified more easily and more extensively...

[mikemeg]

Chas,

 

I remember acquiring a white metal kit for the LNER T1 4-8-0 tank. I began a process of replacing various parts but, eventually, I finished up scratch building the entire loco superstructure for this model. I did exactly the same with a white metal kit for an LNER A6, again, scratch building the entire superstructure and replacing the chassis with one of Arthur's nickel silver etches. So almost all of the white metal parts were simply chucked away, they were awful!!

 

As you can probably surmise, from these experiences I then abandoned building white metal kits, though I think later examples of these kits, from different suppliers, are now much improved.

 

In terms of modifications/changes to etched kits, I try and minimise them as much as possible, though I do tend to substitute brass and/or white metal castings where newer and better ones become available. I also find that almost all cast domes and chimneys benefit from a little attention with the needle files, especially in thinning the flanges, chimney rims, improving the seating, etc. 

 

I will also substitute newer etches wherever such etches improve the model, i.e. smokebox top lamp irons, rivetted fillets on cab steps, etc.

 

Also worth noting that this N8/N9 kit, as supplied, provides for the earlier two brake pull rods, fitted outside of the driving wheels, as originally built. However, photographs of these locos in later LNER days and British Railways days show the outside brake pull rods to have been replaced by a single, centrally located, fully compensated brake pull rod.

 

Both of the above photographs 69382 and 9383 show this feature.  So I will make and fit the later single brake pull rod to this model.

 

On this kit I will also make a very substantial change to the assembly of the nickel silver chassis, around the rear radial axle, but I'll cover that when I get to that stage.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by mikemeg
Restoration of image

[Chas Levin]

12 hours ago, mikemeg said:

Chas,

 

I remember acquiring a white metal kit for the LNER T1 4-8-0 tank. I began a process of replacing various parts but, eventually, I finished up scratch building the entire loco superstructure for this model. I did exactly the same with a white metal kit for an LNER A6, again, scratch building the entire superstructure and replacing the chassis with one of Arthur's nickel silver etches. So almost all of the white metal parts were simply chucked away, they were awful!!

 

As you can probably surmise, from these experiences I then abandoned building white metal kits, though I think later examples of these kits, from different suppliers, are now much improved.

Mike, that - the WM kits you ended up scratch-building so much for - sounds pretty dramatic! What material(s) did you use to fabricate the two bodies?

Although I'm only on my second loco kit, the first was WM and I've built in all about two-dozen metal kits - both WM and brass - of rolling stock; I've come to the conclusion that WM is a very different proposition from brass: it's a 'looser', less precise medium and you get different results from it. I like it though, for the variety - it's a more relaxing build, more of a 'fun' thing, perhaps, where brass offers the possiblity of much finer results. I have to say though in defense of WM that some of the kits I've either built or have in my pile to build are very impressive - D&S and some DJH, for instance... I won't ask which makers' kits you had those poor experiences with - a discreet veil and all that...

12 hours ago, mikemeg said:

In terms of modifications/changes to etched kits, I try and minimise them as much as possible, though I do tend to substitute brass and/or white metal castings where newer and better ones become available. I also find that almost all cast domes and chimneys benefit from a little attention with the needle files, especially in thinning the flanges, chimney rims, improving the seating, etc. 

 

I will also substitute newer etches wherever such etches improve the model, i.e. smokebox top lamp irons, rivetted fillets on cab steps, etc.

Understood! I didn't mean to suggest that I relish mods - I find brass enough of a challenge to keep my interest without any mods. I just meant that if it does become necessary, I find it quite exciting

12 hours ago, mikemeg said:

On this kit I will also make a very substantial change to the assembly of the nickel silver chassis, around the rear radial axle, but I'll cover that when I get to that stage.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

Looking forward to seeing that.