Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS  LNER N8

 

The splashers have both been assembled and fitted to the footplate and the first of the two tank/cab/bunker sides has had the cab opening beading attached. After cleaning up, with the glass fibre brush, the tank front has been fitted and, again, this has been cleaned up.

 

A test fit of the tank/cab/bunker side assembly, just stood in the half etched grooves in the footplate, to ascertain whether everything is straight and true.

 

Seems to pass muster, so onwards with the other side.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

The tank top is then formed and checked against the tank side. Here I made another mod to the kit in that I have drilled a hole in the tank top, 3 mm from the tank front and mid way across the width of the tank top. This will accommodate one of Arthur's tank filler castings, which were clearly not available when this kit was first developed. 

 

I normally fill the side tanks with lead, on all of my tank loco models, using 1/16th lead sheet cut to fit the inside of the tank. Years ago I bought a roll of lead flashing 1/16th x 6" by about 25 feet and I'm still using this same roll. This stuff can be cut quite easily, with tin snips, and then filed up to final size.

 

I guess this 'near obsession' with keeping the work clean begins to become obvious!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

With the completion of the second tank/cab/bunker side, then both sides can now be stood on the footplate (if they will stand) to check that all is straight and level on both sides. Simple expedient; is there any daylight visible at the bottom of each side assembly, when each is standing in the half etched locating grooves in the footplate? Answer seems to be no, so all is sufficiently straight and level to proceed with assembling the loco superstructure.

 

There is a little parallax on the tank fronts and splasher fronts because of the angle of the photo but everything which should be vertical, is vertical.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

So, with all of the dry running and checking done, time to actually start fixing some things together. The tank/cab/bunker assemblies have been soldered to the footplate and then the bunker rear sheet has been soldered between the two bunker sides. After that the front spectacle plate is detailed and then soldered betwee the two sides, using the top of the cab side as the datum for the roof position.

 

At this point, as the sun is now shining strongly, I can no longer ignore the needs of the garden so must now venture out with my spade, fork and shears and minister to the needs of the lawn and those plants which have survived the recent sharp frosts; which is most of them.

 

More tomorrow, especially if it rains!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[18131r]

Hi MIke

 

You certainly do not hang about, It will be finished before we know it.

 

Excellent work.

 

Are you confident that the footplate will not foul the wheels when you put the chassis in?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[mikemeg]

18 hours ago, 18131r said:

Hi MIke

 

You certainly do not hang about, It will be finished before we know it.

 

Excellent work.

 

Are you confident that the footplate will not foul the wheels when you put the chassis in?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

Richard,

 

Many thanks for the kind words.

 

As regards your question re the clearance between the wheels and the footplate, there is a potential problem at the front splashers. The distance between the two inner faces of the splashers is around 22.5 mm. A properly gauged set of Alan Gibson 5' 0" diameter P4 wheels are some 21.7 mm across the rims. Not much room for error or for any side play. 

 

Anyway, I will be checking this issue as I go along.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

[18131r]

5 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

Richard,

 

Many thanks for the kind words.

 

As regards your question re the clearance between the wheels and the footplate, there is a potential problem at the front splashers. The distance between the two inner faces of the splashers is around 22.5 mm. A properly gauged set of Alan Gibson 5' 0" diameter P4 wheels are some 21.7 mm across the rims. Not much room for error or for any side play. 

 

Anyway, I will be checking this issue as I go along.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike

 

0.8mm clearance is tight, good luck with that

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

 

[mikemeg]

Hi Richard,

 

Yes, 0.8 mm clearance is tight but it can be done.

 

When Arthur designed his B15 chassis, he was aware that the clearance between the rear of the connecting rod and the front crank pin was 0.5" on the prototype - 1/2". When this model chassis was successfully test built, in P4, the same clearance - rear of connecting rod to front crank pin - was around 0.010" ( a scale 3/4"), even with a flush front crankpin. However, the chassis works and has not, as yet, shown any signs of those parts fouling.

 

Similarly, the first test build of the LRM B16/1 showed the same problem, with the clearance across the inner faces of the splashers being around 22.75 mm. Here, I actually had to skim around .1 mm off the front faces of the tyres of the driving wheels - thus reducing the front face to front face of the driving wheel dimension to c21.5 mm - in order to provide some sideplay on the front and rear driving wheelsets.

 

On this N8 model, the problem is only present on the front splashers, so again, I will skim off around .1 mm from the tyres of the front driving wheels and will install them, into the mainframes, with as little sideplay as possible

 

I should perhaps add that I do have a digital micrometer which allows these small distances and clearances to be measured very accurately. Without this piece of equipment, I simply couldn't work with these kind of tolerances!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

So before the sun gets too high and the temperature climbs into the high teens, prompting (aka compelling) me to do more work in the garden, a little more progress on the N8. The cab rear has been built and fitted, along with the inside of the bunker. The cab roof has been rolled in the rolling machine and tested for radius against the cab front and rear sheets. I normally roll cab roofs rather than try to produce the curvature just using finger pressure; seems to produce a much more even curvature.

 

So a photo of the current state of this model.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

Another quite early start as the weather, once again, shows signs of being warm(ish) and sunny; just right for gardening!

 

The tube supplied with the kit, for the boiler, has had the recess for the drive train cut out. For this I always use a piercing saw rather than a junior hacksaw. It takes a little longer with the piercing saw but seems to cause less 'disturbance' to the tubing than a coarser saw. After cutting out, the recess is just filed up square and parallel.

 

Also, the visible flare on the cut end of the tube, which always arises when a tube is cut in this way, is removed by very gentle squeezing and then referring the end to the boiler cut out in the cab front.

 

A quick check on the fit within the cab front and the two splasher assemblies with the boiler merely leant in or on those parts. Seems ok to continue.

 

Starting to look like a locomotive!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[Rob Pulham]

Hi Mike,

 

I am watching this one with interest as I have a 7mm scale kit in my to do pile that is an 07 Models kit. Which then went to George Norton and ultimately through to Gladiator, I wonder if it passed through LRM too at some point like many of the other George Norton kits did.

[Jol Wilkinson]

15 hours ago, Rob Pulham said:

Hi Mike,

 

I am watching this one with interest as I have a 7mm scale kit in my to do pile that is an 07 Models kit. Which then went to George Norton and ultimately through to Gladiator, I wonder if it passed through LRM too at some point like many of the other George Norton kits did.

Rob,

 

LRM did have a range of 7mm kits although I can't recall what was included. It is probable that they were the George Norton 7mm kits. IIRC several of John Redrup's own LNWR designs and one of mine were also done in 7mm. These passed into the hands of John Shelley as far as I know and then on to Gladiator, Dragon and possibly Mercian.  The 7mm J6 was certainly in the LRM fold but I don't remember which others. 

 

Jol

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

The smokebox inner wrapper has now been added and soldered in place. The 'blank' boiler is then very lightly primed with grey primer. This allows the various lines governing the positions of boiler fittings - chimney and dome, safety valves, handrail stanchions, boiler washout plugs, clack valves, etc. - to be drawn onto the boiler without marking the brass. Once all the holes are positioned and drilled, then the primer can very easily be rubbed off to allow the boiler bands, washout plugs, etc. to be soldered into place.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

Now for one of those conundrums around the state of some long lived North Eastern locomotives as they approached the end of their lives; in this case N8 No 69382 in the early 1950's.

 

When the N8's were originally built 1886 - 1889, they were built with flush rivetted smokebox plating. So no rivets were visible. During LNER days, new boilers were designed and produced for many of the ex North Eastern classes and these boilers used snap rivets on the smokeboxes i.e. rivets clearly visible on the smokebox plating. Additionally on most, if not all, of the LNER designed boilers, the position of the dome was moved rearwards by some  1' 9" from the position on the original North Eastern boilers, changing the appearance of the locomotive.

 

So 69382, in 1950, should have had a snap head riveted smokebox and the dome situated in the later position adopted by the LNER. But no! From the photo shown below, this loco still had a flush riveted smokebox and the dome in its original position. It also retained the original clack valves and its North Eastern buffers.

 

The upshot of this is that the kit doesn't actually cater for this combination of features as the smokebox wrapper, supplied in the kit, carries snap head rivets. So a new smokebox wrapper will need to be made with no visible rivet detail.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[ArthurK]

Mike 

 

The N8s and contempory designs (J21, J25, N8 and others) carried  a Dia. 67 boiler when built.These had the dome in the forward position and used clack valves on the centre ring of the boiler in line with the dome. During 1930s many  NER boilers were redesigned and the boiler diagrams were redesignated by adding an 'A'. thus new boilers became Dia 67A. On these the dome was moved 1' 9" to the rear. These boilers were not fiitted with clack valves on the boiler but  instead water was delivered via a combined steam/water valve on the backhead.

 

Rivetted smokeboxes appeared in late LNER days (I believe the early 1940s). This gathered pace during the war years and into BR. the straps on the smokeboxes also became riveted at about this time.

 

Another visible change was the acquisition of the Doncaster style of smokebox door. The more domed than  the flatter style used by the NER.

 

It pays to have a good photograph of the loco that you intend to mode and in the period of your intended build. There are a lot of pitfalls waiting for the unwary.

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

Arthur,

 

Many thanks for the above posting; a very comprehensive description of some of the differences made to North Eastern locomotives through their LNER and British Railways days. For almost all classes, modifications and changes, to specific class members, seem to have been made on an individual need basis rather than on a class wide planned basis. This resulted in an ever wider range of variations, across class members, as locomotives aged in service.

 

Contrast the picture, above, of 69382, with the next locomotive in numeric sequence - 9383. And this photo preceded the date of the one above.

 

Once again, many thanks.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

After dodging various forms of precipitation, in the garden, and finally giving up on the gardening - until some warmth returns - it's now back to the N8. A new smokebox wrapper, with flush rivets (well, actually, no rivets at all), has been made, rolled and fitted and then the hole for the chimney casting has been opened out. The chimney is not yet fitted but simply positioned to check the seating.

 

I will now need to re-apply a very light coat of the grey primer to allow marking and drilling of the other various holes in the boiler and firebox.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

The 4mm drawing, included as part of the instructions to this kit, clearly shows the centre line of the dome in line with the front of the tanks with the clack valves being located forward of the dome centre line. Arthur's posting, above, indicates that the clack valves were located on the boiler at the centre line of the dome. So is the 4mm drawing, in the kit, accurate?

 

To verify this, I need to find a photo of an N8, in original condition, taken from the side rather than the more normal three quarter view. This to identify where the centre line of the dome was situated. As it happens, my old mate Mick Nicholson has already provided me with such a photo, which clearly shows the location of the dome and the clack valves.

 

Looks as though the dome centreline is in line with the tank fronts and the clack valves are located slightly forward of the dome centreline.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[Compound2632]

A couple of thoughts, not from any particular knowledge of TWW's Bs in particular but engines in general:

 

Clack valves: did different batches of nominally the same boiler have these in different positions? That's certainly the case with Johnson boilers on the Midland. 

 

Smokeboxes: I'm not convinced by the suggestion that smokebox construction was changed from flush to visible riveting as a direct result of fitting new boilers. Boiler and smokebox are separate units; new boilers would be designed to have the same diameter over front flange as those they replaced, surely? Smokeboxes had to be renewed from time to time anyway as the steel corroded in the harsh environment on the inside and they ceased to be airtight.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Compound2632

[ArthurK]

My remarks about the clack valves being inline with the dome centre applies to the locos without side tanks. The front of the tank of classes N8, N9 and N10 were built  with these in line with the dome on the barrel centre. On these the clack valves were moved forward by about 6" the clear the front of the tank. 

 

As an aside 1643 was an N9. These appear to have retained prominent tail rods to the valve spindles. It is believed that only two N9s retained the smaller tanks  with which they were buit

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

13 hours ago, ArthurK said:

My remarks about the clack valves being inline with the dome centre applies to the locos without side tanks. The front of the tank of classes N8, N9 and N10 were built  with these in line with the dome on the barrel centre. On these the clack valves were moved forward by about 6" the clear the front of the tank. 

 

As an aside 1643 was an N9. These appear to have retained prominent tail rods to the valve spindles. It is believed that only two N9s retained the smaller tanks  with which they were buit

 

ArthurK

 

Thanks for the clarification, Arthur. So the drawing in the kit is accurate.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS NEW DEVELOPMENT

 

Looking in my mailbox a couple of days ago - the physical one screwed to the front door, not the electronic one - there was a cardboard box, immaculately wrapped and very clearly labelled. Unwrapping said package revealed a couple of etched brass sheets plus one of nickel silver, along with a couple of packages containing a mixture of brass and white metal castings and some instructional diagrams.

 

Yes, these are the first etches of another etched kit which needs to be built to check that everything fits and that a model can be produced from the contents of the box.

 

The photos below show the principal etched sheets, so I'll leave it to the reader of this thread to work out what prototype these etched sheets are designed to represent, in 4mm scale, though I think Arthur may have alluded to this on his own thread.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by mikemeg

[Compound2632]

No front splasher. It's an A.

[mikemeg]

30 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

No front splasher. It's an A.

 

My apologies to Stephen - for my initial incorrect reply - who is absolutely correct. It is an NER Class A. I had assumed that the answer would be its LNER classification and I didn't know the NER Classification.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by mikemeg

[Compound2632]

48 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

No front splasher but it's not an A.

 

What else, ex NER later classified by the LNER, had no front splasher? Check out the mainframes on the n/silver etched sheet.

 

No. I'm stumped. It still looks like an A to me.

 

 

EDIT: I cheated and looked at Arthur's topic - he says it's an A too.

 

(No, not an A2, an F8.)

Edited May 10, 2021 by Compound2632