Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[MarkC]

Fabulous news about the A. Will watch your build with even greater interest than usual, Mike  

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

 

My apologies to Stephen - for my initial incorrect reply - who is absolutely correct. It is an NER Class A. I had assumed that the answer would be its LNER classification and I didn't know the NER Classification.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

No problem. It's my pre-grouping mindset, coupled with my copy of Ken Hoole's Illustrated History of NER Locomotives. 

[18131r]

20 hours ago, mikemeg said:

NORTH EASTERN KITS NEW DEVELOPMENT

 

Looking in my mailbox a couple of days ago - the physical one screwed to the front door, not the electronic one - there was a cardboard box, immaculately wrapped and very clearly labelled. Unwrapping said package revealed a couple of etched brass sheets plus one of nickel silver, along with a couple of packages containing a mixture of brass and white metal castings and some instructional diagrams.

 

Yes, these are the first etches of another etched kit which needs to be built to check that everything fits and that a model can be produced from the contents of the box.

 

The photos below show the principal etched sheets, so I'll leave it to the reader of this thread to work out what prototype these etched sheets are designed to represent, in 4mm scale, though I think Arthur may have alluded to this on his own thread.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

Hi Mike

I will be following this build with great interest.

I have one of these kits on order from Arthur.

Cheers

Richard

[micknich2003]

A bit ofinsperation for would be builders.

[MarkC]

Lovely photos, Mick - thanks for posting them. Do you have any photos of the As/F8s in operation between Whitby & Scarborough?

 

Mark

[micknich2003]

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN MODELS LNER F8

 

Firstly, thanks to Mick for posting some wonderful pictures of these locomotives. If anyone needed any encouragement to build one of these, then Mick's photos should go a long way to providing it.

 

Now, so as to get this build done in reasonable time, then I'll 'batch up' this build with that of the N8 and there are very considerable similarities between the two classes, even if the wheel arrangement is different. The title on the posting will identify which model is referenced in the posting.

 

The footplate lower layer, on this kit, is etched with the valances and buffer beams attached, so the valances and the buffer beams need to be folded over to be perpendicular to the lower footplate layer. My approach to folding the valance is to clamp the valance flat and actually gradually fold the rest of the footplate. I do this with the aid of two 12" steel rules, one is used to clamp the valance to a flat piece of glass, the other is slid under the footplate to gradually 'lever' the footplate to vertical.

 

On this footplate I actually used the end of the steel rule to clamp the valance and gradually did the folding in several sections and folding by around 15 - 20 degrees each time. This avoids stretching and deforming the valance. Once both valances are perpendicular to the footplate, the two buffer beams can then be folded up.

 

When all of the folding is done then the lower footplate layer can be checked for squareness and straightness, before any soldering is done.

 

If this '"ain't" straight and square, the whole model won't be straight or square.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[ArthurK]

The sharp eyed Will notice the there are two slots close together on the lower footplate etch. The inner of these take the tags for the tanks. the outer ones are there to enable the valance to be bent without putting too much stress on the area close to the bend.  I had a similar problem with the D20 footplate at the rear which forced a redesign with separate valence. 

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Just to add to Arthur's post, above. The valance on the F8 is 2 mm deep along most of its length; obviously wider at the curved ends. This depth does allow it to be quite securely clamped, using a steel rule. As well as the slots along  the intersection between the valance and the footplate, there is a half etched groove along the full length of the valance/footplate intersection, which does ease the folding.

 

However, it is far easier to fold the footplate upwards with the valance clamped, than to try and fold the valance, with the footplate clamped.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

This could get quite confusing F8 and N8. Anyway, not a lot of progress (more tomorrow) on the N8 but I have sourced a dome casting for this model which is slightly taller than the one supplied in the kit and is a nearer profile to the drawing.

 

I've done the usual fettling of the seating on this to get it as tight to the boiler as possible.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by mikemeg

[Compound2632]

10 hours ago, mikemeg said:

This could get quite confusing F8 and N8.

 

A and B!

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The half etched footplate upper layer has been cut out from the fret, the cusp filed off and then the various rivets which surround the slots for the lamp irons have been pressed out. I normally do this pressing out of rivet indents with the slightly blunted point of a pair of drawing compasses, placed over a sheet of .030" or .040" plasticard. This prevents the compass point from fully puncturing the metal.

 

This footplate upper layer is then straightened out as, being half etched, it does have a propensity to curl. The lamp iron etches are then folded up, noting that the front one has five projections on it, whereas the rear has only three. After soldering in the lamp iron etches to the underside of the lower footplate layer, the upper layer can be positioned over the projecting lamp irons to check for fit. The upper layer fits perfectly and the slots all line up on both layers, as do the various holes for handrails, etc.

 

Here I will illustrate why these test builds are done - hope Arthur doesn't mind. Both layers of the footplate contain two large holes (to allow an 8BA bolt to pass through the footplate to fix the chassis to the superstructure at each end), one under the smokebox and one under the bunker. The smokebox hole lined up perfectly on both layers but the bunker hole did not, there being a 5mm difference in their relative positions.

 

So this is reported back to Arthur, who can then adjust the masters on his etching drawings on the design system. It was not difficult to identify which of these two positions was the correct one, by reference to the mainframe profile, and then to open up this hole through both footplate layers, allowing the 8BA bolt to pass through. Arthur doesn't make very many mistakes, so it can be gratifying to find one.

 

Having lined up the two footplate layers they can then be slowly soldered together, trying to avoid any distortion of the footplate as this is done. If this soldering is done too quickly and the sides are not done at the same rate of progression, the result can become a bi-metal strip, which curls as it cools.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

 The first of the tank/cab/bunker etched sides has been cut out from the fret; all cusp removed and then the cab window beading formed and soldered into the cab window. This process is made easier by there being a locating groove and bending lines on the inside of the beading strip which allows the formed beading to be centrally located on the cab side sheet.

 

The tank is then folded and soldered up from the inside. Now for a quick check of the tank/cab/bunker side assembly within the slots on the footplate. If all fits and sits straight, level and square, then we can proceed with the other side.

 

Seems ok!

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The second tank/cab/bunker side has had the cab window beading formed and fitted and then the tank has been folded and soldered. A quick check with the tabs into the slots to prove that everything lines up and I can now add the sheet lead into the side tanks to start to provide the adhesive weight. Neither side tank/cab/bunker assembly is yet soldered into the footplate, though the end tabs have been folded to tighten the join between the tank and bunker sides and the footplate.

 

Second photo is a 'cheeky' picture of the F8 and N8 (NER classes A and B respectively) together. Shows how similar the loco superstructure was on these two classes, though the N8 has the higher, rebuilt side tanks. The original N8 profile, prior to heightening the side tanks was virtually identical to the F8.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

This posting might be 'teaching Granny to ...........' but anyway, here goes.

 

Many of the superstructure parts on Arthur's kits comprise two layers and they must be soldered together very accurately if they are to fit. Most of those 'two layer' parts have etched holes in them, to allow handrails, pipes, or handles to pass through them. These holes provide an excellent way of lining the two layers up, using appropriately sized broaches. When positioning the broaches, avoid twisting them in as this will open up the holes. Gently push the broaches into the holes until they will go no further. The two layers can then be clamped together and the edges soldered all around.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The side tanks have now been packed with two layers of 1/16" lead sheet, cut to fit. The outer layer of lead extends to the bottom of the tank, while the inner layer extends only to the top of the cut out in the inside of the tank. This to provide clearance for the driving wheels.

 

The two layers of the cab front have now been soldered together around their edges. The rivetted strip, between the cab front and the cab roof is a separate half etched piece on this kit and must be handled with some care as this etch is less than .020 (.5mm) deep and only .005" thick. This etched strip is located at the top of the cab front and very carefully edge soldered to the cab front, after which the cab front can be checked for fit against the cab sides and the cab roof supports, which are folded over from the cab side.

 

The cab roof support strips must then be folded to the same angle as the sides of the cab front so that they lie flush with the top of the cab front. I then rolled the top layer of the cab roof just to check the fit against the cab front and the cab roof supports. This roof layer is not yet fixed to the cab sides or front.

 

The line across the buffer beam, shown on the photo below, is a temporary piece attached to provide some support to the front of the footplate, and is not part of the kit. This strip will be removed prior to fitting the buffers and coupling hook.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The cab roof assembly has been completed and the bunker rear has been assembled and then soldered to the rear of the bunker sides. So, with the tank sides/cab/bunker in place, does the 18 mm boiler barrel slide between the tanks without forcing them out of the vertical. To do this I'll cheat (yet again) and use the N8 boiler which is made rom 18mm brass tube and which diameter I can then totally trust.

 

Seems to fit without forcing the tanks or cab sides out of vertical so that check proves ok. Quite useful this building two different but very similar loco models in parallel!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

On 17/05/2021 at 13:01, mikemeg said:

To do this I'll cheat (yet again) and use the N8 boiler which is made rom 18mm brass tube and which diameter I can then totally trust.

Seems to fit without forcing the tanks or cab sides out of vertical so that check proves ok. Quite useful this building two different but very similar loco models in parallel!

Nice!

[mikemeg]

On 18/05/2021 at 13:04, Chas Levin said:

Nice!

 

Chas,

 

Many thanks. But there's a way to go, yet.

 

One of the pleasures (or drawbacks) of doing these test builds is that any problems or issues found have to be 'worked around' so that the whole thing can be checked out in a single pass. Fortunately, there are no show stoppers on this one; at least not yet.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

[Chas Levin]

12 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

 

Chas,

 

Many thanks. But there's a way to go, yet.

 

One of the pleasures (or drawbacks) of doing these test builds is that any problems or issues found have to be 'worked around' so that the whole thing can be checked out in a single pass. Fortunately, there are no show stoppers on this one; at least not yet.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Hello Mike I realise - though I also imagine there must be a certain excitement to being the first to tread in new territory...

 

Actually I meant I thought it was a nice piece of thinking on your part in using the boiler from one build to test the other, made possible because you're building two such similar locos. There's something very satifying when you have an idea like that I think, like a lock opening, or a piece of a jigsaw fitting into place with a little click...

[mikemeg]

On 19/05/2021 at 13:50, Chas Levin said:

Hello Mike I realise - though I also imagine there must be a certain excitement to being the first to tread in new territory...

 

Actually I meant I thought it was a nice piece of thinking on your part in using the boiler from one build to test the other, made possible because you're building two such similar locos. There's something very satifying when you have an idea like that I think, like a lock opening, or a piece of a jigsaw fitting into place with a little click...

 

Chas,

 

Or just being lazy and not yet rolling the boiler.

 

And yes, I do enjoy these test builds, even when not everything goes completely to plan. But that's what the test build is for.

 

The bunker rear has now been assembled and fitted and the coal rail soldered into place. The roof is, as yet, loose as there is quite a lot of detail still to add within the cab.

 

So, next phase is to assemble the boiler and smokebox and see how that goes together.

 

These late Victorian / early Edwardian locos were just so 'clean of line' with nothing at all jarring with the overall aesthetics, unlike some of the more utilitarian designs of today where aesthetics seem to be a very much lesser consideration. 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

So, no more sharing of boilers with its sibling Class B (N8) for the Class A (F8) - note that I have now learned the North Eastern Classifications!! The boiler etch has ben cut out and the cusp removed. Eleven passes through the roller and the correct diameter is reached, after which the bottom seam is soldered. Care should be taken when rolling this component as it has small witness marks for the boiler bands on one side only.

 

Then for the acid test! Does the assembled boiler wrapper fit between the tanks, without pushing them out of the vertical. And, indeed it does. In fact the fit is so good that the boiler bands, located along the tanks, will need to be truncated before the mid point of the boiler wrapper is reached, otherwise they will exert some slight sideways pressure on the tanks.

 

However, the boiler does quite easily sit on the positioning petals on the cab front, so that's another potential area of problem checked out.

 

It's starting to look a little like a locomotive!!

 

So now for the smokebox and boiler fittings, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Having reached somewhere around 50% completion on the loco superstructure, it may be worth mentioning that Arthur has already identified areas where he will re-design and re-engineer certain parts i.e. cab front and rear. This in the light of the test build findings. So, this build is not a test of the production etches.

 

But we want to test as much as possible in a single pass; this pass. So the build will continue to completion. Ideally the chassis will  be useable and will be powered, with a new superstructure to be built from pre-production etches as opposed to these prototype etches.

 

These engineering changes will affect only a small proportion of the parts, so perhaps 80 - 90% of what I do here will apply to the final etches and castings.

 

Anyway, those considering buying this kit can be assured that any changes made will ease the construction task rather than make it more difficult. And this build should produce a model which should look very little different from the final version.

 

Cheers

 

Mike 

Edited May 20, 2021 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

After rolling and soldering the boiler wrapper, a circular former must be added. Before adding this circular former, an 8BA nut is soldered to the inside of this former over the central hole.  Once the nut is secure, the former can be positioned within the boiler wrapper, approximately 2 mm from the end of the wrapper and with the nut hidden behind the former. This will form the mechanism for attaching and tightening the smokebox to the boiler.

 

The smokebox follows Arthur's normal practice with a one piece etch for the smokebox front former, smokebox base and smokebox rear former, which is folded to enclose a separate hexagonal spacer. This spacer must be very carefully folded and checked against the hexagonal slots in the front smokebox former, before any soldering takes place. Once all six tabs on the hexagonal spacer locate within the slots on the front smokebox former, this can be tack soldered. The rear smokebox former is then carefully folded up so that the rear tabs on the hexagonal spacer slide into the slots on the rear former. These tabs have small retainers which can be bent over, thus locking the rear smokebox former in place.

 

The various tabs can then be soldered up to provide the necessary reinforcement of the smokebox. The front face of the front smokebox former does need to be gently rubbed over some fine emery to ensure that the spacer tabs do not project beyond the face of the former, which would impede the flush fit of the cast smokebox door.

 

A quick check for square and parallel of the two smokebox formers and then an 8BA bolt (3/8" long will suffice) can be screwed through the rear smokebox former and into the 8BA nut in the boiler. This bolt should not be over tightened at this stage. 

 

Normally, an 8BA nut would be fitted to the hole in the base of the smokebox former, to allow an 8BA bolt to attach the chassis to the body. However, I am unlikely to use this body on a finished model, so will skip that process.

 

Looks a little bit more like a locomotive, now!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

So to the smokebox wrapper, which is suppled as a single piece on the etch. Now on many locomotives of this vintage - 1880's - 1900's - the smokebox wrapper executes a graceful curve into the straight portion of the steam chest on both sides.

 

Not so the F8, where the transition from the curve of the smokebox to the straight of the steam chest is a very distinct line. So folding to achieve this very sharp transition is probably out. So I sawed off 5 mm from each end of the wrapper, which included a locating slot. These two pieces were then soldered to the bottom of the two smokebox wrappers, using a piece of scrap etch to locate these pieces over their slots.

 

The remainder of the smokebox wrapper was then rolled to the diameter of the smoke box, ten or eleven stages in the roller did the job. The ends of this wrapper were then feathered to reinforce the sharpness of this transition.

 

So the photo shows the wrapper just wrapped around the smokebox formers without any soldering yet being done. The wrapper is not a bad fit and once tied onto the smokebox wrapper with a twisted wire to hold it in place while being soldered, then everything should fit.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mikemeg