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Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER


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NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

So did this plan come together to achieve that sharp transition to the straight portion of the smokebox? I think perhaps it did. So with the smokebox soldered up and cleaned up then pop the chimney on for effect.

 

Now it does look like a locomotive;

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1010024.JPG

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19 hours ago, mikemeg said:

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

So did this plan come together to achieve that sharp transition to the straight portion of the smokebox? I think perhaps it did. So with the smokebox soldered up and cleaned up then pop the chimney on for effect.

 

Now it does look like a locomotive;

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1010024.JPG

Hi Mike

 

A question if I may, I have noticed a slight gap under the smoke box front end is the the smokebox/boiler sub assembly sloping up from the cab front, to produce this?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

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46 minutes ago, 18131r said:

Hi Mike

 

A question if I may, I have noticed a slight gap under the smoke box front end is the the smokebox/boiler sub assembly sloping up from the cab front, to produce this?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

Hi Richard,

 

Yes, I noticed that slight gap after I posted the photograph. The problem was with the bottom of the boiler, where a small blob of solder, at the front of the soldered seam, was forcing the smokebox slightly out of the vertical. So can't blame the kit; it's the workman!

 

The join between the bottom of the smokebox and the footplate will be hidden by the mainframe extensions, which fit into the slot at the bottom of the smokebox. I think the boiler assembly is level, judging by the line of holes for the handrail stanchions which should be parallel with the tank top.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

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23 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

 

Hi Richard,

 

Yes, I noticed that slight gap after I posted the photograph. The problem was with the bottom of the boiler, where a small blob of solder, at the front of the soldered seam, was forcing the smokebox slightly out of the vertical. So can't blame the kit; it's the workman!

 

The join between the bottom of the smokebox and the footplate will be hidden by the mainframe extensions, which fit into the slot at the bottom of the smokebox. I think the boiler assembly is level, judging by the line of holes for the handrail stanchions which should be parallel with the tank top.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1010025.JPG

Hi Mike

 

I'm glad it is something simple causing the gap.

 

Keep up the excellent work

 

Cheers

 

Richard

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Posted (edited)

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

A little more progress on the N8 with the completion of the smokebox. This just about completes the basic superstructure for this model, so now onto the detailing.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P1030026.JPG

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Posted (edited)

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

Looking at the photo, posted above, one thing which is clearly obvious is that the two holes for the front handrail stanchions are out of line; one is higher (or lower) than the other. So, the one on the right was filled and then re-drilled. One of the benefits of being able to photograph the various stages of the build and spot any errors!!

 

The cab roof, which is as supplied in the kit, needs some work as these comprised two distinct layers.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1010024.JPG

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I'm intrigued, why two layers?

 

Hi David,

 

Two layers because on both Arthur's F8 kit and on the LRM N8 kit, the cab roof top layer is half etched. Arthur supplies a lower layer which is full thickness (.010") in order to produce a cab roof of scale thickness. The LRM kit has only the half etched layer present, which at its edges is .005" thick, or a scale 3/8" which is not thick enough to represent the NER cab roof.

 

Hopefully the photo attached will illustrate.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

N8 9383 17 April 1947. Dairycoates.__ .jpg

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Posted (edited)

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

A second layer has now been added to the roof of the N8. This layer is slightly larger than the top, half etched layer, leaving an overlap, on the lower layer of the roof, of around .010"  (scale 3/4") all round. This matches the configuration of the roof on Arthur's F8 etches.

 

The boiler of the N8 has been very lightly re-primed to allow the final marking out and drilling stages without marking or scratching the brass. 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1010025.JPG

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Posted (edited)

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

This kit, as supplied, provides only for open coal rails, as originally built. These open coal rails were later plated on the inside of the bunker, which the kit does not provide for. Anyway, like the old North Eastern, I decided to plate over the coal rails. Little did I know that this process would take a couple of hours to achieve and would involve quite so much colouring of the air (blue) in the workroom.

 

Anyway, it was done and the resulting coal rail is at least level and flush with the bunker sides and cab rear. And my reward, apart from achieving this, involves a glass and a bottle of Shiraz.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

P1010026.JPG

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Posted (edited)

LNER F8 and N8

 

Various things have now been done on the N8 such that both this and the F8 are now at the same stage. So now for the boiler detailing on both models followed by the cab internal detailing.

 

When built the tank height, above the footplate, was the same on both the Class A (F8) and Class B (N8), however the height of the N8's tanks and bunker were raised to increase water capacity.  This change necessitated moving the handrail positions on the boiler and smokebox, as well as the location of the washout plugs on the N8's. This is clearly visible in the photograph below.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1030027.JPG

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On 24/05/2021 at 10:56, PenrithBeacon said:

I'm intrigued, why two layers?

 The early cab  roofs of NER locos had  steel  supports over the width of the cab. The roof was 1" timber which did not quite reach the  edges of  the first and last support girders so giving the two layer effect. The roof was canvas covered. This was held down with battens, one at each supporting girder and  one along each side. These  further enhanced the appearance of there being two layers. More modern cabs  used a single steel plate.

The giveaway (wood or steel) was the presence of the battens on the  roof. Many locos had the wooden roof replaced by steel.

 

ArthurK

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  • 2 weeks later...

LNER F8 AND N8

 

With the recent change of weather to warm and dry, chance to do some rebuilding to garden walls, which has meant little or no progress on the F8 or N8.  However, the wall rebuilding is now complete so a return can be made to the models. More castings have been sourced for these two models and a start made on the boiler detailing, with the fitting of the front sets of boiler bands.

 

Both then photographed together.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 10/06/2021 at 20:53, Irish Padre said:

Hello - lovely work!  Just picking up from another thread - what thickness of plasticard have you used when building in the past ? Thanks 

 

Firstly, my apologies for the tardiness of this reply but I didn't/couldn't access this site for the last couple of days.

 I assume that the question relates to my use of plasticard in the construction of loco bodies?

 

So, I'm afraid this might not be a short or simple answer but here goes :-

 

Footplates

 

I have this thing about scale thicknesses of materials on models! Now I've seen a few plasticard or plastic loco bodies where the footplate thickness would have done justice to the armour plating on old battleships i.e. it is far too thick. That said, .010" or .015" plasticard is not sufficiently rigid to provide the necessary strength.

 

So for footplates I use 10 thou plasticard, with the edges lightly chamfered down to around 5 thou. This is then laminated to a piece of 20 thou or 30 thou plasticard, which is cut to fit between the valances. Thus the thicker, reinforcing layer is invisible. For valances I can then use 10 thou or 15 thou plasticard dependant on the depth of the valance.

 

Loco Platework

 

For this I normally use 15 thou plasticard reinforced, wherever possible, by 20 or 30 thou plasticard, such that the reinforcing layer is invisible i.e. inside the side tanks, inside the bunker. This means that this reinforcing layer may be cut slightly short to avoid it being seen i.e. bunker insides. On loco cabs I use 15 thou for the platework with the beading cut from 15 thou strips with the edges rounded. The cab beading and cab front window beading then hides the overscale thickness of the cab side or bunker side sheeting material. Further reinforcing of the cabside is provided by the internal structure of the cab i.e. splashers, sandboxes, etc.

 

I should also add that on tank locos I always add a sheet of 1/16" lead sheet (sometimes two layers of 1/16" lead) glued into the side tank to provide additional adhesive weight, which also acts as a strengthener.

 

Boilers

 

Here I normally use 10 thou plasticard and roll the boiler cladding with around four or five layers, all laminated together.  This produces a very rigid structure with what is, effectively, a 40 or 50 thou thick tube. Obviously, the final layer gives the fiished diameter of the boiler. This tube is further reinforced, and profiled by adding circular formers inserted into each end of the tube. One such former then forms the smokebox front and the other is invisible when the boiler is fitted onto the model. Equally obviously, any boiler detailing, involving metal parts - metal castings, handrail stanchions, washout plugs, etc - must be glued to the boiler; it cannot be soldered!

 

I also add a coil of 1/16" lead sheet into the boiler, where additional adhesive weight is needed. This can also help to balance the loco; so for a 4-4-0 the lead coil coil is fitted as near to the cab as possible; for an 0-4-4 the lead coil is fitted as far forward as possible. n 0-6-0's,  tank or tender, the lead coil is fitted over the centre driving wheelset.

 

This use of lead isn't restricted to the plasticard loco bodies as I use the same techniques on the etched brass bodies.

 

Fireboxes

 

Had I made a separate firebox i.e. Belpaire - which I haven't, simply because I have never used plasticard for any models with these type of fireboxes, I would broadly follow the techniques used with etched kits. A front and rear former, shaped to the correct profile, made from 30 thou plasticard and then one or two layers of wrapper laminated over the formers to produce the correct final profile.

 

For those fireboxes with rounded corners in both planes, then additional thicknesses would need to be provided on the formers (perhaps two or three layers of 30 thou) such that the rounded corners could then be filed up, once the wrapper layers are fitted and set.

 

I hope this helps but if you do have any further questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Regards

 

MIke

 

 

 

 

 

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That’s fantastic - thank you! I have scratch built in brass in 7mm but am now trying my hand at 3mm scale narrow gauge plastic locos so a big change. This is really helpful - thanks for taking time to give such a comprehensive reply. David 

6FDFC427-47D9-41CA-B1B8-569A09231337.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

 

Having now acquired the necessary horn guides and axleboxes, the coupling rods have been assembled and then used to set up the chassis jig for fitting the horn guides and axleboxes. The circular parts, mid way between the two driving axles, are spacers to allow the compensating beams - not shown on this photo - to clear the tops of the horn guides and bear, correctly, on the tops of the axleboxes.

 

Prior to fitting the mainframe springs, which will also act as axlebox retainers, small pieces of 0.3 mm wire are fitted to the bottom of each horn guide to prevent the axleboxes from dropping out during handling.

 

Next step is to assemble the mainframe springs prior to assembling the chassis and fitting the compensation mechanism.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P1280029.JPG

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Posted (edited)

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The chassis has now been assembled with the horn guides and axle boxes in place, except for the two smaller sets for the front carrying wheels. In order to speed up the proving process, much of the detail on the boiler has not yet been added because the locations for this detail do check out. This will be added once the major assembles have been checked out for fit.

 

So a first check of the chassis under the loco superstructure and it fits as it should. The etches for the main springs really are a very nice piece of etching. The hole in the mainframes, between the two driving axles, is where the pivot beam for the compensation beams will be accommodated, though the end of this beam should be invisible once fitted.

 

Next step is the 2mm horn guides for the front carrying wheels and a check out of the brake brackets and brakes. 

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

P1290030.JPG

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Posted (edited)
On 21/06/2021 at 22:40, Dave Holt said:

Mike,

With, presumably, twin beams over the two coupled axles, how are you providing the third support point with two trucks/radial boxes, one at each end?

Dave.

 

Dave,

 

First thing to say is that I am test building this but Arthur Kimber is the kit designer. The rear radial axle will swing and is pivoted on one of the mainframe stretchers. The front radial axle is, in fact, effectively the leading axle of an 0-6-2, so does not swing at all. However, this axle will be compensated by the use of the High Level 2mm horn guides and axleboxes, with a central bearing allowing the vertical movement of the two leading axleboxes.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

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Thanks for the explanation, Mike. Making it, in effect, an 0-6-2 will also give it much better lateral stability than having a swinging truck/radial axleboxes at both ends. Good thinking by Arthur.

Enjoying your build, as always.

Dave.

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The suspension is similar to my model of the Tennant but with a swinging rear truck at the rear. In both the front axle rocks on a central pivot,

 

ArthurK

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Posted (edited)

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Time now to check the ride height, given that this loco is now arranged as an 0-6-0, albeit with two sizes of wheel - 5' 7 1/4" for the driving wheels and 3' 9" for the front 'radial' axle wheels. Here I had a bit of luck!! Many moons ago, I was given a set of wheels simply labelled L&Y 2-4-2. I never really looked to check exactly what they were. On checking what they are, I found that they are all Ultrascale P4 wheels, 22mm driving wheels and 15 mm ten spoke bogie wheels. Guess what? Though the driving wheels are not quite correct for an F8, they are the correct size, as are the bogie wheels. 

 

So these can be used to check the ride height, deflection on the compensation beams, etc. The model does look a little strange without the trailing wheelset in place and the absence of piping under the valance does alter the appearance but the ride height is correct and the loco rides perfectly level.

 

So now to complete the chassis with brake gear, trailing radial truck, etc.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

P1300031.JPG

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