Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[ArthurK]

Hi Mike,

 

We both know that there are a number of issues that I have to address on this one. However it looks fine  and with the wheels in place it is beginning to look complete.

 

I have done a redesign of the cab internals by extending the tanks through into the cab. This raises other problems on the wheels protruding into the cab. I have often wondered how the prototype got over this problem as the  wheel BTB is slightly more than the distance between the tanks. Careful study of the GA reveals a small dished splasher inside of the cab. This is not enough, even in P4 but it does suggest a way forward. I have added an adjustable splasher to suit  P4. EM and OO. I think this will be an ideal solution

 

Keep up the good work. Unfortunately I am no longer able to try out these things for myself. I can dream up new designs but I have to rely on others to show that they work.

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

I guess the first thing to say is that doing these test builds is never a chore; it is a pleasure.  And finding the odd issue, which needs attention, does add value to the test build process and makes it all worth while. It is worth saying that very rarely is one of these test builds ever aborted, before a completed model is produced, so testament to Arthur's design skills.

 

Next item to check is the brake hangars and brake blocks. The brake hangers are two layers of half etched nickel silver which is .015". The brake blocks are two layers of nickel silver as fully etched parts of the hangar - 2 x .015" - plus an additional layer of .015"; so .045" thick (1.12 mm) in total. Thus the brakes must be quite carefully adjusted and positioned, within the brake hanger bracket, so that they do not touch the wheel rim or the wheel flange causing an electrical short.

 

The photo shows how the brake positions are tested, simply using an appropriate broach, inserted from the other side and through the mainframe brake pivot holes, as a removable pivot. The  photo shows that the brake hangar does hang at the correct angle and that there is separation between the wheel rim and the brake block, though the brake block did have to be 'worn in' to achieve this separation! The separation of the brake block from the wheel flange can only be determined from above.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Following the part build of the superstructure for the F8 and having found and reported, to Arthur, the issues and anomalies, somehow Arthur has managed to revise all of his artwork and have the amended artwork etched again, in an amazingly short time.

 

So, after only a few days, I can restart the build of the superstructure using a completely new set of etches.  I don't propose to repeat the various postings covering the first build of the superstructure, unless anyone has a particular desire to see this, but I will post the odd repeat as this second build progresses.

 

First stage is the footplate with its two layers. The lower layer is full thickness and contains the valances and buffer beams The upper layer, which is half etched contains much of the detail which lies on top of the footplate.

 

The folding of the valances and the correct assembly of the two layers determine whether the whole footplate/valance assembly is straight and square - or not - so should be done with care and taking as much time as is necessary.

 

Since the last posting, we have identified a wheel type which is about as close as we're going to get for this prototype. The prototype wheel was 5' 7 1/4" diameter with 16 spokes, an 11" throw on the crankpins and with the crankpins in line. Alan Gibson produce a wheel for the GER/LNER E4 which is 5'8" diameter, 16 spoke, 10" throw in line.

 

So this wheel is, nominally, 3/4"over size for the diameter (.25 mm in 4mm/ft) and 1" (.33 mm) short on the crankpin throw. I've only just ordered these wheels from AG, so the chassis still has the Ultrascale wheels fitted, though the final drive gear wheel hasn't been fitted; this to allow removal of the drive train prior to fitting the AG wheels when they arrive..

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The first side has now been assembled and fitted. This etch differs, quite considerably, from the first etch design with the tanks now extending up to the cab opening, as a single piece, with a separate internal splasher, which can be configured for P4 / EM or OO by using different spacing slots on the splasher and the underside of the tank assembly.

 

The portion of the etch for the inside of the tank has also been modified to use very shallow tabs on the tank tops which engage with witness marks on the inside of the tank side to facilitate locating the tank top at the correct height below the top of the tank side and to ensure that this distance is entirely consistent along the tank top. This also avoids any visible gaps between the tank top and the tank side.

 

The photograph below also shows the bottom one of the two 1/16" thick lead sheets which sit inside the tanks and which are of different heights to allow clearance of the wheels on the innermost (not visible) lead sheet.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The second side has now been assembled and fitted to the footplate. The screw reverser housing, visible on the tank section within the cab, is an etching contained on this new fret.

 

The fit of the tank/bunker sides on the footplate is very good indeed and is testament to the relative width of the tabs on the tank/bunker sides and the slots in the footplate.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

One of the issues, which we noticed on the first build of the loco superstructure when compared to photographs, was the curvature of the roof. The centre of the roof looked too high compared to the sides of the roof, signifying that the radius of curvature of the roof was too small i.e. the roof was too curved. Comparing the roof of the first build to the roof of the N8 kit, also highlighted the same issue.

 

This has now been corrected, so one test which can be applied, now, is whether the roof of the N8 kit sits properly on the cab front of this build of the F8? It does, so the roof radius now looks correct.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Way back on page 62 of this thread, a few photos of F8's were posted. However, 'decoding' these photos to establish certain details of the F8's wasn't easy, simply because of the viewpoint and distance from the subject. So, for instance, were globe lubricators fitted on any of the F8's; how was the Westinghouse pump piped up,  how were the guard irons profiled etc.

 

Anyway, Arthur managed to locate and provide a photo which does show much of this detail, though the date of the photo can only be established to LNER days i.e. 1923 or later.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[Asterix2012]

Lots of pipes round that pump.

 

[ArthurK]

3 hours ago, Asterix2012 said:

Lots of pipes round that pump.

 

Not really, only four!.  Top cylinder, steam in and regulator pipes  both from cab on the left, exhaust to smokebox on right. Lower cylinder air in on left (no pipe) high pressure to air reservoirs on left. There were sometimes two high pressure pipes from the box on the lower right.

 

ArthurK

[Chas Levin]

Marvellous photo, full of detail as you say Mike, but also very atmospheric!

[JoeF]

On 16/07/2021 at 10:11, mikemeg said:

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

Way back on page 62 of this thread, a few photos of F8's were posted. However, 'decoding' these photos to establish certain details of the F8's wasn't easy, simply because of the viewpoint and distance from the subject. So, for instance, were globe lubricators fitted on any of the F8's; how was the Westinghouse pump piped up,  how were the guard irons profiled etc.

 

Anyway, Arthur managed to locate and provide a photo which does show much of this detail, though the date of the photo can only be established to LNER days i.e. 1923 or later.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

The vacuum brake was fitted in May 1929 so this reduces the timescale a little.

[mikemeg]

5 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

Marvellous photo, full of detail as you say Mike, but also very atmospheric!

 

Chas,

 

I guess these old black and white photos just exuded atmosphere; the atmosphere of the steam railway. We should and must preserve these old photos, for we can never, ever, take them again.

 

Only yesterday I was reminded just how lucky we were, those of us old enough to have seen the days of steam. Languishing in Platform 1 at Scarborough Station, waiting for its departure on the Scarborough Spa Express, was a Jubilee carrying the number 45627 and the name Sierra Leone, though the cab side number was 45562, which was Alberta. 

 

Anyway whatever its real identity, this Jubilee was absolutely immaculately turned out and surrounded by dozens of folk just taking photos and relishing the sight, the sound and the smell of a wonderful piece of design and engineering. A piece of engineering now well over eighty years old and still working.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

2 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

Chas,

 

I guess these old black and white photos just exuded atmosphere; the atmosphere of the steam railway. We should and must preserve these old photos, for we can never, ever, take them again.

 

Only yesterday I was reminded just how lucky we were, those of us old enough to have seen the days of steam. Languishing in Platform 1 at Scarborough Station, waiting for its departure on the Scarborough Spa Express, was a Jubilee carrying the number 45627 and the name Sierra Leone, though the cab side number was 45562, which was Alberta. 

 

Anyway whatever its real identity, this Jubilee was absolutely immaculately turned out and surrounded by dozens of folk just taking photos and relishing the sight, the sound and the smell of a wonderful piece of design and engineering. A piece of engineering now well over eighty years old and still working.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Absolutely Mike, couln't agree more! Pre-pandemic, we went ont a couple of trips hauled by Union of South Africa (and took heaps of photos and video too). One of the best stretches was spent leaning out of a window (not very H&S compliant I'm afraid) in the leading carriage, a full corridor brake, watching the motion from behind and above, going at - I would guess - somewhere in the region of 50-60mph up a long incline, listening to the sound of the loco working quite hard and getting my hair full of cinders: fabulous!

I bet that Jubilee looked splendid too: did you see and hear it make its departure?

[65179]

3 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

Chas,

 

I guess these old black and white photos just exuded atmosphere; the atmosphere of the steam railway. We should and must preserve these old photos, for we can never, ever, take them again.

 

Only yesterday I was reminded just how lucky we were, those of us old enough to have seen the days of steam. Languishing in Platform 1 at Scarborough Station, waiting for its departure on the Scarborough Spa Express, was a Jubilee carrying the number 45627 and the name Sierra Leone, though the cab side number was 45562, which was Alberta. 

 

Anyway whatever its real identity, this Jubilee was absolutely immaculately turned out and surrounded by dozens of folk just taking photos and relishing the sight, the sound and the smell of a wonderful piece of design and engineering. A piece of engineering now well over eighty years old and still working.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

45627/45562 is 45699 Galatea. Quite a transformation  from the Barry hulk and Leander spares source it was for many years.

 

Simon

[mikemeg]

On 17/07/2021 at 21:33, Chas Levin said:

Absolutely Mike, couln't agree more! Pre-pandemic, we went ont a couple of trips hauled by Union of South Africa (and took heaps of photos and video too). One of the best stretches was spent leaning out of a window (not very H&S compliant I'm afraid) in the leading carriage, a full corridor brake, watching the motion from behind and above, going at - I would guess - somewhere in the region of 50-60mph up a long incline, listening to the sound of the loco working quite hard and getting my hair full of cinders: fabulous!

I bet that Jubilee looked splendid too: did you see and hear it make its departure?

 

Chas,

 

No I didn't see or hear its departure but this same locomotive was a regular visitor on this train, last year, though then it was 'dressed up' as 45562 Alberta. Alberta was the very first Jubilee that I ever saw, way back in 1958 on a train into Hull, one Sunday afternoon.

 

When these photos were taken, last year, this loco took out fourteen coaches, unaided, so the departure was 'serene' though without a hint of a slip.

 

A lovely sight, a wonderful sound and reminder of that unmistakeable smell of oily steam and smoke which only a steam locomotive makes.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

Running through Hessle Haven and passing a line of ex-North Eastern tank locos was this, on a test run, prior to going into the paint and weathering shop (lots of weathering to represent this loco in its final days) to become LNER 1683. I finally got around to adding the last castings and details.

 

This was the original test build and it is still one of Arthur's best kits - the NER Class S2, LNER B15.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

1 hour ago, mikemeg said:

 

Chas,

 

No I didn't see or hear its departure but this same locomotive was a regular visitor on this train, last year, though then it was 'dressed up' as 45562 Alberta. Alberta was the very first Jubilee that I ever saw, way back in 1958 on a train into Hull, one Sunday afternoon.

 

When these photos were taken, last year, this loco took out fourteen coaches, unaided, so the departure was 'serene' though without a hint of a slip.

 

A lovely sight, a wonderful sound and reminder of that unmistakeable smell of oily steam and smoke which only a steam locomotive makes.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Wonderful photos Mike, magnificent sight: thank you for posting!

From what I understand about steam loco driving, a slip-free pull-away with fourteen coaches is also a fine tribute to the driver's skill and experience.

On another note, I know this has been said many times before, but looking at the side of the tender and the less than flat metal surface, I think about how we're always striving for uniformity, flatness and so forth in our modelling, whereas the prototypes were often far from blemish-free, weren't they?

Edited July 18, 2021 by Chas Levin

[mikemeg]

On 18/07/2021 at 08:47, Chas Levin said:

Wonderful photos Mike, magnificent sight: thank you for posting!

From what I understand about steam loco driving, a slip-free pull-away with fourteen coaches is also a fine tribute to the driver's skill and experience.

On another note, I know this has been said many times before, but looking at the side of the tender and the less than flat metal surface, I think about how we're always striving for uniformity, flatness and so forth in our modelling, whereas the prototypes were often far from blemish-free, weren't they?

 

Chas,

 

Many thanks for the kind words.  Last year, as well as the Jubilee, we had a Merchant Navy (which was equally immaculately turned out) and even an 8F ( which was just as  pristine in its unlined black) on this same train. All of these locos were just a testament to those groups of volunteers who painstakingly restored these hulks back to living, breathing machines.

 

When I gave up the spotting some time early 1965, I could never have imagined that so many locos would be rescued and brought back to live and work again, much less that new ones would be built to allow us all to see classes which had all gone.

 

Yes we strive for absolute flatness and straightness in our modelling yet the prototypes were never flat and, often, not straight either. Heavy shunts deforming the running plate and buffer beams, age and wear twisting the running plates, etc.  Tenders showing the signs of years of being bombarded by tons of coal falling from the coaling towers and the effects of years of water sloshing around everywhere.

 

But they were and they still are just lovely things!!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited April 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[Mike Megginson]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

With the chassis now largely complete, with the addition of the guard irons, a coat of weathered black has been applied. The Alan Gibson 5' 8" 16 spoke 10 inch throw crankpins in line wheels have been fitted and quartered and the leading and trailing wheels have been fitted. The crankpin collets and nuts have not yet been fitted. 

 

I had assumed that the chimney fitted to the F8's (NER Class A) were identical to those fitted to the N8's (NER Class B)  but reference to Volume 3 of North Eastern Record showed that this assumption is wrong. The two classes carried chimneys of slightly different heights and slightly different diameters, so a suitable casting has been found for the F8. I still have to do a little work on the seating of the boiler fittings, especially the safety valve housing but that will be done next.

 

The loco still has to be balanced by adjusting the bearings on the front carrying wheels, as the back end is slightly too high on this photograph.

 

So this build has very nearly reached the same stage as the first build of the superstructure with only one or two minor issues found. Next job is to fit the brakes and brake linkage before returning to the assembly of the superstructure.

 

Cheers

 

Mike 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mike Megginson

[Mike Megginson]

 

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

The bunker rear assembly and most of the cab internals have now been added, along with the cab floor. The brakes have also been assembled, primed and added, though I still have to add the brake linkage, which on these locomotives, was outside of the driving wheels. So most of the major superstructure and chassis is assembled, now to move on to the detailing.

 

Now I have moved beyond the stage reached with the first build of the superstructure. We're now not far from finalising the etches!

 

The seating of the boiler fittings - chimney, dome, safety valve cover - is better but not yet quite right!

 

As an aside, I guess the photo shows the model at something akin to 7mm/ft or 'O' gauge so any errors in construction are magnified.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mike Megginson

[micklner]

It maybe the pictures ?.

 

To my eyes the Dome looks wrong, appears to have almost zero flair at the base?.

[Mike Megginson]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

It maybe the pictures ?.

 

To my eyes the Dome looks wrong, appears to have almost zero flair at the base?.

 

I don't think it is the picture; I think you're correct. The flare on the dome is not right.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Mike Megginson

[Mike Megginson]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER F8

 

A different dome has been found and trial fitted and more work has been done on the seating of the boiler fittings - chimney, dome and safety valve cover, which I think has improved their fit. The coupling rod journals have been opened out to accept the Alan Gibson crankpin collets and then the collets filed down to size and fitted. With most of Arthur's kits I have used the longer Alan Gibson crankpin collets and reduced their length to just clear the coupling rod journal. The final part of this process is to check that the wheels revolve without any tight spots on the rods, which they do.

 

The crankpins still have to be filed back to size, once the crankpin nuts have been fitted

 

The brake stretchers have been fitted and packing washers fitted to their ends to allow the brake pull rods to stand clear of the wheels. I use the tiny 1 mm outside diameter washers on the nickel silver boiler bands etch, with three threaded onto each end of the brake stretcher and then glued into place to prevent them from falling off. Clearly, threading these things onto a .5 mm rod does test the old eyesight just a little but all of the brake stretcher ends have been so fitted. One of the brake pull rods has been attached just to check that there is sufficient .5 mm rod protruding on the rear axle to allow the rear set of pull rods to be attached over the front pull rods.

 

As with almost everything on these test builds, components are checked for fit before actually being fixed.

 

I still have to assemble a new cab roof, as the one shown in the photo, which was from the first superstructure build, has too much curvature.

 

Another photo just to check the work so far.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Mike Megginson

[micklner]

Mike

     Never heard of the Gibson long crankpin collets being used like that before. Sounds like a good idea !!, I presume it gives a bit more sideplay on the rods ? I had noticed on some of my build that rods (which do vary in thickess from kit to kit) end up quite tight , I have filed them slightly thinner, where needed before.

 

Dome looks much better too !.

 

cheers

 

Mick

[Mike Megginson]

On 25/07/2021 at 14:48, micklner said:

Mike

     Never heard of the Gibson long crankpin collets being used like that before. Sounds like a good idea !!, I presume it gives a bit more sideplay on the rods ? I had noticed on some of my build that rods (which do vary in thickess from kit to kit) end up quite tight , I have filed them slightly thinner, where needed before.

 

Dome looks much better too !.

 

cheers

 

Mick

 

Mick,

 

Most of the coupling rods, on Arthur's kits, consist of two full thickness nickel silver etched layers (2 x .015") often plus two half etched layers at the journals (1 x .015") which can give a total thickness, at the journals of > .045"; more than 1.0 mm. I've tried using the standard Gibson crankpin collets but the journals have to be thinned far too much. So I now use the longer collets, suitably filed down to shorten them, on all models with etched rods. Obviously where both a coupling rod and connecting rod are attached, then the longer collets are used as supplied.

 

I always buy the crankpin screws, collets and crankpin nuts separately rather than the crankpin sets, which only contain the shorter collets.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Mike Megginson