Mikemeg's Workbench - Building locos of the North Eastern & LNER

[ozzyo]

Why olive oil?

 

OzzyO.

[mikemeg]

2 hours ago, ozzyo said:

Why olive oil?

 

OzzyO.

 

The short answer as to 'why olive oil' is that I have an egg cup full of this stuff, near the workbench. Prior experience has shown that it makes an excellent solder inhibitor and paint inhibitor, as it will stand fairly high temperatures without boiling away and the smell is quite pleasant when it gets hot! I have also used this stuff as a lubricant for wheel bearings, in the absence of clock oil, which is the more normal lubricant.

 

I normally apply the olive oil with the end of cocktail stick, which prevents it from straying onto areas where solder or paint does need to flow.

 

That's the current (tempted to spell this word with an 'a' not the 'e') extent of the 'culinary approach' to model locomotive building.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

Morning Mike, I'd been going to ask the same thing, why olive oil - interesting and useful info, thanks for explaing.

 

Do you clean it off between different production stages though? For instance, having used it to inhibit gumming up during priming, do you clean it off before painting and re-apply, or do you leave it there to perform the same function for further coats?

 

I've been a bit nervous of applying oil in advance of paint - even carefully, as you suggest, with a cocktail stick - because of the fear (probably exaggerated, in my mind!) of the oil 'creeping' and finding its way where it shouldn't: do you find this to be a problem? If not, do you take special precautions against it happening, or do you just find it simply doesn't occur?

[mikemeg]

The olive oil thing was only as a last resort when I looked around for something to use when assembling Arthur's articulated coupling rods. I make very tiny steel pins for the articulated joints on these coupling rods, which must be soldered into one journal but must pass through the other and remain unsoldered. In the absence of any other oil (I'd run out of clock oil and the WD40 can was also empty) I tried olive oil, just dipping the tiny pin into a small amount  in an egg cup. Prior to soldering the end of the pin, I wiped away the oil on the protruding part of the pin, with a cotton bud, before applying flux. The solder adhered where it was needed and did not adhere where not needed.

 

Flushed with that success, I tried the stuff as a 'mask' to prevent primer from settling on certain areas, which it does very well. Once the primer is dry then a quick wipe with a cotton bud should remove the oil and the paint settled on it and restore the surface to a non-greasy state.

 

Olive oil is an organic product but isn't crude oil also an organic product, albeit organisms which lived many millions of years ago?

 

The photo below shows where these pins are, though this photo was taken during the B16/1 build. Both the coupling rods and the crosshead small ends have these tiny pins and hence, this requirement.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

Having assembled the High Level Roadrunner Compact gearbox (60 : 1 ratio) and attached the motor, which is a Mashima 1420 from my 'stock' of Mashimas, then time to make the final checks on the orientation of the articulated carriage of the gearbox, such that the motor does not foul the backhead positioning.

 

If my measurements and calculations are correct, then the motor, with the rear shaft cropped off, should clear the backhead casting. It will; phew!!

 

As mentioned earlier, the slide bars and motion plate, fitted to this chassis, are from Arthur's J21 kit and are the unused EM parts. Arthur always provides triplicated parts for OO, EM and P4 gauges on all parts which span the mainframes i.e. motion plates, frame spacers, brake hanger stretchers, etc.

 

Quite a lot of detail has also been added to the body of the N8 including Arthur's tank filler castings, whistles, safety valves, buffers, etc. The clack valve castings fitted, are from the original kit.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

 

While waiting for parts, I've moved the J21 test build forward making a start on the tender and adding details to the loco body. I now have everything needed to complete this build, which will be done over the next week or two. So this is the current state of this build.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

 

One of the problems which I always have with these 0-6-0 tender locos, with daylight under the boiler, is where to drive them. The favourite choice, for ease of setting up and for free running, is the middle axle. But fitting the gearbox and drive train to the middle axle, invisibly, is almost impossible; some large part of it will be visible.

 

However, driving on the rear axle can avoid this 'invasion' of the daylight under the boiler but does require the chassis to be very free running with absolutely no tight spots, such that it will not 'snatch' under operating conditions. All of my 0-6-0 tender locos - J21's, J24 and J25 therefore utilise the same approach, namely driving the rear axle. However, this then introduces another set of issues which must be overcome :-

 

The final drive needs to be articulated such that it will fit and operate under the cab floor.

 

The motor must be installed vertically or near vertically (at best diagonally) and this then restricts the choice of motor to something in the xx20 range i.e. less than or equal to 20 mm length.

 

On a compensated chassis, as this one is, the drive train must operate within the compensating components and must not impede their operation, which then forces the need for the drive train to move with the rear axle as it moves with the compensating beams, even though this movement is relatively small. So clearance on the articulated drive train must allow for this movement.

 

Anyway, using the High Level Roadrunner Compact, with the articulated final drive carriage and with a little re-shaping of the stage 1 motor and gear housing, then the above criteria can be met.

 

The photo shows the orientation of the motor against the body, though the parallax on the photo is a little confusing - the chassis looks a lot longer than the loco body, which, of course, it's not. I still need to crop off the top shaft of the Mashima 1220 and do the final checks but the checking, so far done, seems to pass muster.

 

If micklner reads this posting, you asked the question, a while ago, 'has Arthur included the riveted strips around the splashers on this kit? The photo below shows these strips quite clearly and, hopefully, answers your question.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by mikemeg

[drmditch]

Please may I ask how you 'crop' motor shafts?

[mikemeg]

46 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Please may I ask how you 'crop' motor shafts?

 

You may indeed. I use a Dremel rotary tool which has, as one of its attachments, a screw chuck for holding slitting disks. This will cut through a 1.5 mm or 2.0 mm motor shaft in under ten seconds. The piece which is parted will be extremely hot if picked up immediately as this slitting does generate quite a bit of heat.

 

Look up Dremel on t'internet and you'll see these devices and their various options and functions. Mine is some ten years old, is mains driven (240 volt) and came with various chucks and attachments for polishing, de-burring, slitting, etc.

 

It is a very useful tool in all sorts of ways. Usual disclaimer; I'm just a satisfied customer.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[MarkC]

8 minutes ago, mikemeg said:

 

You may indeed. I use a Dremel rotary tool which has, as one of its attachments, a screw chuck for holding slitting disks. This will cut through a 1.5 mm or 2.0 mm motor shaft in under ten seconds. The piece which is parted will be extremely hot if picked up immediately as this slitting does generate quite a bit of heat.

 

Look up Dremel on t'internet and you'll see these devices and their various options and functions. Mine is some ten years old, is mains driven (240 volt) and came with various chucks and attachments for polishing, de-burring, slitting, etc.

 

It is a very useful tool in all sorts of ways. Usual disclaimer; I'm just a satisfied customer.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

I agree - mine, also a mains job, is of similar vintage & with all sorts of extras as well.

 

I do wish that I'd bought one sooner, rather than faffing about with 'el Cheapo' ones for years.

 

Mark

[mikemeg]

7 minutes ago, MarkC said:

I agree - mine, also a mains job, is of similar vintage & with all sorts of extras as well.

 

I do wish that I'd bought one sooner, rather than faffing about with 'el Cheapo' ones for years.

 

Mark

 

Mark,

 

Yes so do I (bought one sooner). Mine too came with all sorts of attachments, including a number of slitting disks (around 15 mm diameter) which I have used dozens of times, perhaps even hundreds. I'm still using the original supply of these disks and there are still a few as yet unused.

 

The quality of the product and its packaging was/is excellent.

 

Cheers

 

MIke

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[drmditch]

Thank you. I do have a Dremel. I need to buy some more cutting disks.

Possible Eileens or Squires?

Can you suggest other sources?

 

Is there an issue about heating affecting the motor?

[mikemeg]

34 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Thank you. I do have a Dremel. I need to buy some more cutting disks.

Possible Eileens or Squires?

Can you suggest other sources?

 

Is there an issue about heating affecting the motor?

 

To reduce the heating effect, on the motor, it's worth just applying the disk for a few seconds and then allowing the whole thing to cool before re-applying the Dremel back into the cut. I've never had a motor show any adverse signs after this cropping and there's quite a large 'heat sink' surrounding the motor shaft.

 

A  few years ago I did have a Mashima overheat very badly, following a gear crunch, such that it continued to run but became so hot that it could not be touched after a few seconds running. 

 

Mark, might also have a view on this.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by mikemeg

[Bucoops]

I think my Dremel must be pushing 30 years old now. The speed controller partially failed a few years back, but it still works, a bit, the slowest speed is fast, and it will go up to silly fast. I do miss the slow speed but not enough to do anything about it!

[Brit70053]

My mini drill outfit hailed from Woolworths under their own brand and has been useful on countless occasions for jobs such as shortening motor shafts. 

To prevent excess heat damaging the motor, I tend to apply the slitting disc after the fashion of a chopping motion, letting the disc work for perhaps 2 seconds, withdrawing it, then applying to the started cut repeatedly until the shaft is completely cut through. Something I do to prevent swarf getting into the motor works is to put a pinhole through a piece of balloon rubber, then stretch this over the shaft which is to be cut off and wrap the rubber around the motor frame or can. Easier done than described.

 

Regards,

                  John

 

[MarkC]

3 hours ago, mikemeg said:

 

To reduce the heating effect, on the motor, it's worth just applying the disk for a few seconds and then allowing the whole thing to cool before re-applying the Dremel back into the cut. I've never had a motor show any adverse signs after this cropping and there's quite a large 'heat sink' surrounding the motor shaft.

 

A  few years ago I did have a Mashima overheat very badly, following a gear crunch, such that it continued to run but became so hot that it could not be touched after a few seconds running. 

 

Mark, might also have a view on this.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike (and Matt)

 

I agree - particularly on the bigger diameter shafts it can be better to cut it in a couple of goes. It's quite scary how quickly the heat can build up.

 

Of course, it can depend on both the quality of the slitting disc and the hardness of the motor shaft - some Chinese motors in particular seem to be a little 'softer' than others, & the disc can slice through them very rapidly.

 

Mark

Edited January 26, 2022 by MarkC

[Jol Wilkinson]

By using the single stage motor mount, such as supplied by Branchlines and London Road Models with a worm and gear, it was possible to mount longer Mashima motors low down in the frames. The 10xx was good for all gauges and the 12xx for EM and P4. Getting the motor lower down also removes the need to always cut down the motor shaft

 

 

Another way of shortening motor shafts is to tape up the motor ends to prevent dust and filings getting in and then fit the wanted shaft end into a mini or ordinary drill. Spin the whole lot up in the drill and with a good quality triangular needle file (Valorbe or similar) machine a groove where you want to cut off the unwanted shaft end. You don't need to machine/file all the way through, about two thirds or a bit more to get right through the shaft case hardening. The shaft can then be be easily broken off. This method doesn't seem to create so much heat.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Jol Wilkinson
typo

[mikemeg]

LONDON ROAD MODELS LNER N8

 

After a few more additions and replacements, the body of the N8 is now almost complete with the chassis now ready for the wheels, motor and gearbox.

 

The front and rear lamp irons still need to be fitted as do the operating rods for the front sandboxes, along with the brake gear and sand pipes on the chassis.

 

Slow progress on this one, as it has been a 'background' project to the test builds of the F8 and J21, though this N8 model has benefitted from some of the 'spare' etched parts and brass and white metal castings, from both of those test builds.

 

I've pretty well now lost count of the number of locos which I've built that are numbered in the 68xxx and 69xxx ranges, as this one will be - 69382 of 53B, Hull Dairycoates shed as at June, 1950.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by mikemeg

[micknich2003]

Mike, as always a nice job. Dairycoates was 53A and not has you state above.

[mikemeg]

On 12/02/2022 at 14:23, micknich2003 said:

Mike, as always a nice job. Dairycoates was 53A and not has you state above.

 

Thanks Mick and well spotted. Given how many Dairycoates locos I've built, I should know the shed code by now. I really need to fit my locos with appropriate shed plates covering 53A, B and C (Hull Dairycoates, Botanic Gardens and Springhead respectively) with the odd 50C and D (Selby and Harrogate Starbeck) in there as well.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

 

The chassis of this test build is now largely complete, with just the brakes, brake linkage and sand pipes to add. Next stage on the chassis will be priming and initial painting prior to adding the wheels and motion and the the full brake gear. This loco will have the brake pull rods fitted inside of the wheels, as the non vacuum fitted locos had.

 

The body detailing has also moved on with the handrails all fitted and some of the external rodding added. I still have to add the sanding operating rods, various external pipes and the lamp irons.

 

Someone did ask me what handrail knobs I used on these models? I normally used Alan Gibson handrail knobs - medium length for the boiler and short for the smokebox ,cab side and tender handrails. However, on the two B16/'1s  which I built, for the boiler and smokebox, I needed handrail knobs shorter than the Alan Gibson medium ones and longer than the short ones, so I turned the shoulder off around thirty of the medium handrail knobs to allow them to sit closer to the boiler. Unlike most North Eastern locomotives, the B16's (and Q7's) had boilers and smokeboxes of the same diameter.

 

While this process is somewhat tedious, the results were worth it. However, when talking to Colin, of Alan Gibson. he asked 'why don't you use the shoulderless versions?'  So now, instead of using the standard short or medium handrail knobs, I use the shoulderless versions, cutting them back in length, where necessary, and then using various removable spacers, to achieve the correct distance of the handrail from the boiler, smokebox or side plating. 

 

This J21 has the last of the turned down medium Alan Gibson handrail knobs on the boiler and the shortened shoulderless knobs everywhere else.

 

Someone else asked how I build the models so cleanly (their words not mine). As I've said before, I clean the model up as I go along, and especially after every soldering operation, so that a minimum of solder (ideally none) shows. Also, as much of the soldering as possible, on these models, is done from the inside and I try and use as little solder as possible.

 

It's probably also worth mentioning that I do glue many parts onto the models - most white metal and brass castings, handrail knobs, handrails, cab details, pipework, etc. I use Araldite for the large castings, which does allow adjustment as the adhesive is setting, and superglue for the smaller components like handrail knobs. All handrail knobs are fitted with a piece of handrail wire inserted, to ensure that the orientation of the handrail knob is correct. This piece of handrail wire is removed and re-used, once the glue has set.

 

This allows runs of handrail knobs (i.e. on the boiler side) to be progressively fitted as a full length piece of handrail wire is slotted through the ones already fitted and set, checking each new one in turn for the handrail remaining parallel and straight. This does entail always starting the boiler handrail knob fitting from the front of the loco. The cabside handrail knob fitting can be started from either end.

 

It's just a thing of mine that handrails must be as straight and parallel as possible!!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

NORTH EASTERN KITS LNER J21

 

Change of plan, with this test build. Having already built two vacuum fitted J21's, I looked for, and found, photos of a non vacuum fitted example - 65070 - taken in the early 1950's. Oddly, this loco, and some others, were allocated to ex-Great Northern sheds - Doncaster and Retford - during the 1950's. Unfortunately all of the photos of this loco are not generally available so cannot be reproduced here.

 

The example chosen - 65070 of 36E, Retford - was not vacuum fitted, had LNER group standard buffing and draw gear and had the single compensated brake pull rod. This loco also sported a later 3038 gallon tender with the oval frame cut outs and three coal rails.

 

So Arthur's 3038 gallon tender kit has been modified to produce the three coal rail version.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by mikemeg

[Chas Levin]

I was just trying to work out a tactful and suitably respectful way of asking why the loco and tender footplates were at different levels when I looked more closely and realised the loco isn't wheeled yet!

 

Perhaps my wife's right and we do need to get our eyes ttested again...

[mikemeg]

12 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

I was just trying to work out a tactful and suitably respectful way of asking why the loco and tender footplates were at different levels when I looked more closely and realised the loco isn't wheeled yet!

 

Perhaps my wife's right and we do need to get our eyes ttested again...

 

Chas,

 

Thanks for the posting. I knew something was wrong or missing; the running in trials have, so far, not been very successful!!

 

Seriously, the next photo of this model will have wheels on; honest!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by mikemeg

[mikemeg]

On 02/03/2022 at 10:54, mikemeg said:

 

Chas,

 

Seriously, the next photo of this model will have wheels on; honest!

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

I just didn't stipulate how many wheels!!

 

The very slight difference in loco and tender ride heights is due to the absence of corresponding wheels on the other side, which causes the compensating beams to deflect upwards slightly too much. 

 

Now to finish the job!

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by mikemeg