Terminating trains on through platforms

[DCB]

Any passenger stock left in a platform must include a Brake coach, whether running round or removing or detaching a through coach/ portion,  Effectively a "Handbrake Coach" as Vacuum brakes and air brakes leak off.

 

Trains were supposed to approach dead end platform very carefully, GWR rules stated the driver must use the loco hand brake and not rely on Vacuum so terminating in a through platform was quicker.  Stating the obvious, but passengers usually disembark promptly so ECS should vacate an arrival platform quickly. Originating trains will often spend long periods waiting to depart, over an hour in steam days so bays are much more useful for departures than arrivals. Most bays at through stations could not be used for main line arrivals

 

Trains often terminated and reversed at through stations whether small or large.  This varied with the timetable, almost all pre war stations were arranged so trains could reverse, though not all were signalled.  Generally trains would arrive at the arrivals side platform cross over, possibly wait in the goods yard (Chalford) or loop and depart from the departure platform.   GW Swindon Goucester line locals reversed at Kemble and Chalford, Gloucester - Chalford and Swindon to Kemble. Autos mainly to Chalford loco hauled to Kemble.

 

I don't know of any portions of GW trains being taken forward by SR locos but in BR days GW trains to Launceston terminated in the SR through station after the GW Terminus was closed. Wadebridge had two separate parallell lines approaching from the East one GW one SR which is unusual. It looks like double track but operated separately.

 

SR Barnstaple Junction had GW trains for Ilfracombe on Summer Saturdays, and GW trains used the SR Plymoiuth Exeter line daily as did SR trains the GW route twice per day in each direction.

Okehampton was a medium size two platform plus bay station on double track where SR trains divided for Plymouth and Padstow, the junction was a few miles west at Meldon Junction so the two portions followed each other for a few miles over Meldon Viaduct etc  I have never worked out how they combined again as the track plan does not seem adequate.

 

Several through stations which had trains timetabled to terminate actually had the trains continue on down the line,  The "Bristol" trains of the GW often shed a few carriages at Bristol and continued to Weston Super Mare or even Taunton.

 

MSWJR Southampton Cheltenham trains started and terminated in Cheltenham Lansdown station from 1888 until 1957 a two platform station on the Birmingham- Bristol line with a short 3 coach bay. The carriage sidings were north of the station so the station stops to disgorge passengers were brief and the train continued north to the sidings.  In earlier days the MSWJR  trains waited in the bay before backing on to through coaches off a Bristol bound service left in the through platform.

 

Invergordon and Helmsdale on the Highland Far North Line had their one train a day which started and terminated there as well as the three through trains to Wick and Thurso which split at Georgemas Junction.  Also a northbound train detached its dining car at The Mound, a station with only one mainline through platform and a loop with no platform and it was attached to a southbound service some time later.  (The Mound also had a branch platform for Dornoch and the Dornoch Branch loco which could assist with shunting)

 

I intend to terminate locals at the two platform through station on my loft layout as we do at the branch station on a friends layout, though if coaches get any more free running we will have to fit working DCC or radio control brakes.

[gismorail]

At Chester General this was a regular practice as trains arrived and departed in five different directions. To the eastern end trains would arrive / depart London and Manchester and to the western end trains arrive/ departed to Birkenhead / Northwales and Shrewsbury. If I remember correctly it happened on three platforms.in both directions  

[Peter Kazmierczak]

 

 

Individual local trains would reverse a mainline stations.  

MSWJR Southampton Cheltenham trains started and terminated in Cheltenham St James station from 1888 until 1957 A two platform station on the Birmingham Bristol line with a short 3 coach bay.    

 

 

 

I think you mean Cheltenham Spa Lansdown.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I think you mean Cheltenham Spa Lansdown.

 

Indeed he does. And if MSWJ trains ever terminated there it must have been during a period when the MSWJ was still open but St James had closed. That does not sound quite right to me but I need to look up the dates.

 

St James is a very suitable station to model - compact and set on a curve.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Joseph,

The MSWJR DID use Lansdown station whilst St James' was still open.

 

Timetable from summer 1953:

 

Lansdown

Dep 10.11 (10.05 SO) to Southampton Central & Terminus

        13.56 to Southampton Central & Terminus

        17.25 Andover Junction

 

Lansdown

Arr 10.35 ex Andover Junction

      13.30 ex Southampton Terminus & Central

       20.06 ex Southampton Terminus & Central

[Joseph_Pestell]

Joseph,

The MSWJR DID use Lansdown station whilst St James' was still open.

 

Timetable from summer 1953:

 

Lansdown

Dep 10.11 (10.05 SO) to Southampton Central & Terminus

        13.56 to Southampton Central & Terminus

        17.25 Andover Junction

 

Lansdown

Arr 10.35 ex Andover Junction

      13.30 ex Southampton Terminus & Central

       20.06 ex Southampton Terminus & Central

 

That's interesting.

 

Makes sense really as it allows connections which would otherwise mean a longish walk.

 

Edit to add: Makes for an interesting station for the modeller with GW, LMS and SR locos at one location. Have learned a lot about the MSWJ and Cheltenham as a result of this post. I had been unaware of the High St station further north which had several sorting sidings dedicated to the MSWJ.

[The Stationmaster]

That's interesting.

 

Makes sense really as it allows connections which would otherwise mean a longish walk.

 

Edit to add: Makes for an interesting station for the modeller with GW, LMS and SR locos at one location. Have learned a lot about the MSWJ and Cheltenham as a result of this post. I had been unaware of the High St station further north which had several sorting sidings dedicated to the MSWJ.

The MSWJ (and latterly GWR) had Running Powers to Lansdown Road for passenger trains and to Cheltenham High St Goods for freight trains.

 

Incidentally reference an earlier post the GWR did not have any lines to Wadebridge but its trains got there using Running Powers from Boscarne Jcn over the SR (ex LSWR) branch from Bodmin.  Strangely although GW trains did run to Ilfracombe at various times the GW did not have Running Powers beyond Barnstaple Jcn station towards Ilfracombe. 

[DCB]

Apologies, Typo I have corrected it above  MSWJR trains used Lansdown station at Cheltenham until 1957 (i think) when the junctions south of Lansdown were altered so trains could no longer reach the MSWJR and GWR Kingham branch from the Midland line and the through freights were taken off and one remaining passenger train re routed to St James.

The post 1957 train was an Eastleigh turn and was usually a U class mogul.  As far as I am aware SR locos did not reach Cheltenham before nationalisation as the traffic was worked by GW locos Moguls and Manors latterly . 

[Joseph_Pestell]

 

ided for Plymouth and Padstow, the junction was a few miles west at Meldon Junction so the two portions followed each other for a few miles over Meldon Viaduct etc  I have never worked out how they combined again as the track plan does not seem adequate.

 

 

 

I think that in the Up direction both portions ran to Exeter Central and combined there. Among other advantages, it would avoid banking the train up from St David's.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Apologies, Typo I have corrected it above  MSWJR trains used Lansdown station at Cheltenham until 1957 (i think) when the junctions south of Lansdown were altered so trains could no longer reach the MSWJR and GWR Kingham branch from the Midland line and the through freights were taken off and one remaining passenger train re routed to St James.

The post 1957 train was an Eastleigh turn and was usually a U class mogul.  As far as I am aware SR locos did not reach Cheltenham before nationalisation as the traffic was worked by GW locos Moguls and Manors latterly . 

 

I agree. When I wrote SR loocomotives, I should have written ex-SR locomotives.

[davepen]

A shorter walk would have been to use Malvern Road? Although I assume the (G)WR would have preferred you to use their Honeybourne/Stratford Line to Birmingham.

Only with it's closure would you have changed to the MR route. (?)

 

Last month caught the XC Train down from Manchester (for Bournemouth), changed at New Street to another XC from Yorkshire.

At Cheltenham there were a few Cl158/9 in the siding north of the station.  In the up platform was a train for Maesteg.

When the XC cleared the down platform, the So'ton train came off the siding.  Now via Bristol and Salisbury rather than Swindon and Andover.

The Arriva Wales train then crossed over, allowing my Worcester (and Ashchurch) train into the up platform.

I think the XC was a few minutes late - causing a back up?

 

If this is all a bit Modern image, consider some of the West Wales stations. 

Whitland had two branches with locals. Some originally express trains divided, and the Milk required a light express engine down from Carmarthen.

Carmarthen was almost two back to back terminuses, SWR reversing, Aberwystwyth trains starting and the LNWR appearing.

 

I assume Banbury (GWR) had similar with LNER {and SR} through coaches from Woodford.  The LNWR station was almost a separate BLT. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Hi all,

 

My questions is as the title says really. in particular the big 4 era.

 

Were there occasions of say a GWR train going from A to B, splitting it's coaches then looping around the remaining coaches (or all of them if it didn't drop any off) and going back to A. Then maybe a Southern engine picking up coaches to go from B to C. This being done though on the main through lines of the station.

 

The reason i ask is because i like the idea of the movements within a terminus station of moving coach stock but wondered how much coach stock movements happened on your `typical' through station...

 A book I often find myself recommending, 'The Big Four in Colour', shows elements of the operations described taking place at Oxford on a Bournemouth - Birkenhead service. Through trains changed power at such convenient locations: in this case a scruffy GWR 4-6-0 coming off a set of mixed GWR and SR coaches, then a gleaming SR 4-6-0 takes over the haulage (the photograph does not lie). It is quite possible that such a power change would coincide with vehicles being added or removed too.

[Fat Controller]

 A book I often find myself recommending, 'The Big Four in Colour', shows elements of the operations described taking place at Oxford on a Bournemouth - Birkenhead service. Through trains changed power at such convenient locations: in this case a scruffy GWR 4-6-0 coming off a set of mixed GWR and SR coaches, then a gleaming SR 4-6-0 takes over the haulage (the photograph does not lie). It is quite possible that such a power change would coincide with vehicles being added or removed too.

There may well have been van traffic that might have been detached; the Nottingham to Neyland Siphon, for example, or the sausage traffic from Calne to Newcastle.

[Fat Controller]

There used to be a practice of attaching a two car Swindon set for Shrewsbury to the rear of a Milford Haven three car set for the run from Swansea to Llanelli. At the latter, the two car would be uncoupled and return eastwards as far as Llandilo Jct, whilst the other vehicles would head westwards. Prior to the arrival of the DMUs, steam-hauled trains from the Central Wales line would run into the Down platform, unload, then run round, before drawing forward on to the Up line and setting back in to the Up Bay.

DavePen mentions Carmarthen. This still had splitting movements well into diesel days. The Down Sleeper to Milford would detach a portion with mail and newspaper traffic at Carmarthen in the early hours. In the evening, the Up working would run in to the station, the train loco uncouple, draw on to the remains of the Aberystwyth line, then pick up the TPO section (the Newspaper vans having left earlier on an Up Parcels working) and place it on the tail of the Sleeper portion from Milford. It would then run around the train before heading towards Paddington. The poor souls in the sleeper can't have had much sleep; after dozing off, they would be awakened again as the TPO set was detached for Bristol.

[ForestPines]

Wadebridge had two separate parallell lines approaching from the East one GW one SR which is unusual. It looks like double track but operated separately.

When the North Cornwall Railway first extended to Wadebridge, it joined the former Bodmin & Wadebridge at Wadebridge Junction, and the line from there into Wadebridge was widened and operated as double track.

 

However, this only remained for a bit over 10 years before Wadebridge Jn was abolished, the route from Wadebridge to the site of the junction being two parallel single lines.

 

As The Stationmaster pointed out all of the routes approaching Wadebridge were actually SR. The Bodmin line was used by SR services to the ex-Bodmin & Wadebridge station (just called Bodmin by the Southern, renamed Bodmin North by BR) and GWR services to Bodmin General and Bodmin Road.

 

Before nationalisation the GWR services terminated in Wadebridge; after, some of the WR services were extended through to Padstow.

 

(Any errors in the above are because I'm writing this from memory whilst sat on a train)

[The Stationmaster]

When the North Cornwall Railway first extended to Wadebridge, it joined the former Bodmin & Wadebridge at Wadebridge Junction, and the line from there into Wadebridge was widened and operated as double track.

 

However, this only remained for a bit over 10 years before Wadebridge Jn was abolished, the route from Wadebridge to the site of the junction being two parallel single lines.

 

As The Stationmaster pointed out all of the routes approaching Wadebridge were actually SR. The Bodmin line was used by SR services to the ex-Bodmin & Wadebridge station (just called Bodmin by the Southern, renamed Bodmin North by BR) and GWR services to Bodmin General and Bodmin Road.

 

Before nationalisation the GWR services terminated in Wadebridge; after, some of the WR services were extended through to Padstow.

 

(Any errors in the above are because I'm writing this from memory whilst sat on a train)

According to George Pryer (and he did occasionally make errors but usually small ones) the line from Wadebridge Jcn to Wadebridge East was single and the parallel single lines only came into use after Wadebridge Jcn was closed in 1907.  GP gives the date of opening of Wadebridge Jcn 'box as 01 June 1895 and closure as 03 February 1907.

[ForestPines]

According to George Pryer (and he did occasionally make errors but usually small ones) the line from Wadebridge Jcn to Wadebridge East was single and the parallel single lines only came into use after Wadebridge Jcn was closed in 1907. GP gives the date of opening of Wadebridge Jcn 'box as 01 June 1895 and closure as 03 February 1907.

The perils of posting from memory! And annoyingly I can't find my copy of Illustrated History Of The North Cornwall Railway either. I imagine you're probably right though.

[rovex]

I'm at work and therefore don't have access to the usual texts but I seem to remember that somewhere in the Midlands was a station which was the terminus for two branch lines. It looked like a through station but trains from the GWR branch terminated there, were run round by the engine and left the way they had come, and likewise trains from the Midland did the same but from the opposite direction.

 

Of course I may have imagined all this but I don't think so, no doubt someone on here will know exactly where I mean, or will put me right

 

Dean

 

PS and on the same point but different station many trains from Paddington operated through Snow Hill and terminated at Wolverhampton Low Level. (a through station) what happened to them I'm afraid I don't know.

 

PPS - It was Halesowen - although passenger services appeared to have ceased in 1927

[johnlambert]

 

PS and on the same point but different station many trains from Paddington operated through Snow Hill and terminated at Wolverhampton Low Level. (a through station) what happened to them I'm afraid I don't know.

 

 

Some GWR trains ran through Wolverhampton LL to Birkinhead (and possibly other places) usually with a change of motive power (IIRC the GWR Kings could not run North of Wolverhampton).  Others would have terminated, been serviced/cleaned and run back to London.  From what I've read it was more convenient to do this at Wolverhampton than in the cramped confines of Snow Hill (although some trains did terminate at SH).

 

On the Same route Leamington Spa General had two through platforms and two bays (with the bay on the Up side of the station connected to the goods lines that ran behind the platform so it was, in theory at least, a through platform).  Trains from Birmingham and Stratford-upon-Avon terminated and started at Leamington but photos seem to suggest that they were as likely to use the through platforms as the bays.

 

Talking of Stratford-upon-Avon, that was another through station where trains terminated.  I know trains from Birmingham and Leamington would terminate at Stratford but I can't remember if any services from Worcestershire, either on the Evesham line or the Cheltenham line ever terminated at Stratford.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Some GWR trains ran through Wolverhampton LL to Birkinhead (and possibly other places) usually with a change of motive power (IIRC the GWR Kings could not run North of Wolverhampton).  Others would have terminated, been serviced/cleaned and run back to London.  From what I've read it was more convenient to do this at Wolverhampton than in the cramped confines of Snow Hill (although some trains did terminate at SH).

 

On the Same route Leamington Spa General had two through platforms and two bays (with the bay on the Up side of the station connected to the goods lines that ran behind the platform so it was, in theory at least, a through platform).  Trains from Birmingham and Stratford-upon-Avon terminated and started at Leamington but photos seem to suggest that they were as likely to use the through platforms as the bays.

 

Talking of Stratford-upon-Avon, that was another through station where trains terminated.  I know trains from Birmingham and Leamington would terminate at Stratford but I can't remember if any services from Worcestershire, either on the Evesham line or the Cheltenham line ever terminated at Stratford.

 

I don't think trains coming up from Honeybourne terminated at Stratford (although I don't have timetable to hand to check). I think that they were on a circular service that saw trains run Birmingham-Birmingham via Shrub Hill and Honeybourne.

[Chris Dark]

Hi again, sorry to re-start an old thread but does anyone have a trackplan of grimsby? preferably pre nationalisation. I have found a few arial images that cover parts of the station and so on but not a track plan or signal diagram.

 

Thanks

[TheSignalEngineer]

I don't think trains coming up from Honeybourne terminated at Stratford (although I don't have timetable to hand to check). I think that they were on a circular service that saw trains run Birmingham-Birmingham via Shrub Hill and Honeybourne.

Quite a lot of trains between Honeybourne and Stratford ran from Worcester to Leamington, althouigh there were some which ran from Worcester to Birmingham and others ran fro Evesham to Birmingham.

[Phil Bullock]

A couple of points on this fascinating thread

 

MSWJ trains most certainly used Cheltenham Lansdown - and the engine shed still exists in an industrial estate north of the station...

 

http://thecarpethutcheltenham.co.uk/about-us/4566277429

 

As for trains splitting in a through platform - all GW/BR - no SR - but operations at Worcester Shrub Hill were classical. In diesel era 7 coach train arrives from Paddington - front portion SK+CK+BSK detaches and heads for Hereford behind Hymek or Warship. Rear 4 coaches - RB+SO+SK+FK - taken to carriage sidings by station pilot. Process reversed in opposite direction - front 4 coaches in platform behind train loco, Hereford portion arrives, loco uncouples and runs out via scissors cross over, train loco shunts back to couple up to rear portion and off we go!

 

Hope that helps

 

Phil

[Nearholmer]

CD

 

I got a bit confused as to whether the really important thing for you was "terminating at a wayside station" or "GW taking forward SR coaches or vice-versa", but ......

 

Many small stations hosted the odd "terminator". Taking the area that I know best: Edenbridge (school trains to and from Tonbridge); Ashurst (shuttles from Tunbridge Wells West); Uckfield (business trains to/from London); and, Hailsham (short workings to/from Eastbourne).

 

There must have been countless examples across the country during the steam age.

 

Kevin

[GordonC]

did the rear 4 coaches not need a brake coach of some kind?