RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted July 30, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 More photos from the walk through the tunnel to follow in due course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2015 Excellent photo's Tim & Neal! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Could someone please explain the smaller tunnel beneath the blue steps? Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Clearly when the GWR engineers added all that extra brickwork at the peak of the tunnel they didn't think ahead for when electrification would come. No foresight these old engineers, no foresight at all. Out of curiosity, why was all that extra brickwork added, was the mouth weak or was there another purpose for it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Could someone please explain the smaller tunnel beneath the blue steps? Brian. Defence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_Tunnel, description about 3/4 down the page. Of course there are other rumours about that tunnel but lets keep this thread on topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Is it me or does there appear to be a horizontal ventilation shaft on top of the tunnel? If so, this may offer the height needed for electrification, if said ventilation can be accomplished by other means. The high tunnel mouth is because of high speeds: when a train enters in and passes through a tunnel at speed, it pushes a column of air in front of it. At the end of the tunnel, this collides with air not in motion (the outside) and this has a negative effect on the train. By allowing an 'escape route' for the pushed air, the train isn't affected as much. It's still a design requirement for tunnels in high-speed lines everywhere. Mind, Brunel's wider gauge allowed for safe passage at higher speeds over contemporary standard gauge designs! That's the case today, but I doubt they had such concerns in Brunel's time. I've always believed (but can't quote a source) that it was more about not scaring the passengers with the apparent small size of the bore. Though I'm not sure how any of them got to see it, with the exception of the third class ones in the open trucks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
37114 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I managed to get some photting time in yesterday, between the showers and here are some of my photos taken at Box and Corsham. regards Neal. You should have popped in for a brew Neal, I am on hols this week and you were at the end of my road! On that matter please can the person who diagrams the trains put something other than those horrible class 66's on it,they are parked up at the bottom of my road and I was laid awake last night with the ying ying sound ringing through the window. If it was a nice 60 or a pair of Colas 37's I wouldn't mind being kept awake but that class 66 sound is just awful, anything you can swing CK please?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 It's ok Rob after a while you will become oblivious to the racket! Takes a few weeks but you soon blank the worst of it out. Admittedly the sound of an idling 37 would be much nicer! jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 Defence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box_Tunnel, description about 3/4 down the page. Of course there are other rumours about that tunnel but lets keep this thread on topic. Regrettably that is at typical Wiki level regarding the Quarry Siding. I can't readily trace its original date of opening but an additional connection to the siding, near the tunnel mouth and operated by ground frame, was provided in 1936 perhaps to avoid long propelling moves from Corsham. I'm not at all sure when the siding was finally removed but it was definitely still in place in 1978 and remained, in increasingly dilapidated state, for some years after that although the door looked into the rock face looked as if it hadn't been opened for many years. I understand the siding was retained to provide access to underground storage facilities (although that might well have been to mask other MoD use of the site but whatever was there was presumably deemed to require possible rail access - maybe even for reactivation for armaments storage?). Any nonsense about the site being used for the long term storage of withdrawn BR engines is precisely that - utter nonsense so there's no need for this thread to even mutter about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnefoxile Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 You should have popped in for a brew Neal, I am on hols this week and you were at the end of my road! Rob, I did think about it, but couldn't remember exactly where you lived Cheers Neal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnefoxile Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 You must have missed me by a short time, Neal! CK, I did think about giving you a call to see if you were about, but only after I'd left Cheers Neal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2015 I thought the yellow thing in the first photo was the prototype IEP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2015 Regarding the quarry/MoD site by Box tunnel., many years ago one of the people who creates train simulator routes included a tour of the complex on a route covering the west of England. I don't know how realistic it is, though it is quite fun with lost of tunnels and dead ends, and piles of ammunition, drums and boxes lying around, but the relevance is that in the accompanying documentation he gave quite a bit of information about the history of the site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 At risk of perpetuating the tangent here's some interesting bits from our own government - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324883/Corsham_Tunnel_version1.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Could someone please explain the smaller tunnel beneath the blue steps? Brian. It was the entance to a bathstone quarry on the north side of Box Tunnel. Bathstone (oolitic limestone) quarries were/are shallow mines 80-100 feet below the ground and normally connected to the surface by slope shafts. There are several in the area around Corsham but it was the construction of Box Tunnel that revealed a particularly rich bathstone deposit. A fairly large underground quarry was developed north of the line of Box Tunnel and the deep cutting leading to the tunnel enabled it to be accessed by a horizontal adit next to Brunel's tunnel entrance. Bathstone quarrying/mining leaves fairly large caverns and before and during WW2 several worked out quarries were taken over by the government for use as secure ammunition stores. The Wki entry on Box Tunnel is a bit confusing between Tunnel Quarry and Monkton Farleigh which were administratively part of the same Central Ammunition Depot but completely separate geographically with separate interchanges with the GW main line. Tunnel Quarry was unusual in that, when it was an active bathstone quarry, standard gauge track entered the underground workings through the entrance next to the Box Tunnel mouth with stone transferred from narrow gauge wagons inside. The WD took advantage of this to have an underground transfer facility for their ammunition stores in Tunnel Quarry. For the nearby Monkton Farleigh quarry the GWR was contracted to build a transfer depot on the surface connected to a tunnel about 2000 metres long. This was built for the ammunition depot and ran UP to the old workings (the floor of the quarry was well above the level of the main line) which were relined and generally tidied up for use as a series of chambers for ammunition storage. There were rails in the floor but most movement seems to have been by conveyors. To move ammuniton betwen the SG surface depot and the converyor operated tunnel there was a small NG system I visited Monkton Farleigh a couple of times when it was opened as a museum for a few years after1984. It was fascinating with the surface buildings accessing the slope shafts (much shorter than those to the GW interchange) all disguised to look like farm buildings. The original bathstone workings had been turned into a series of separate concrete lined chambers for ammunition storage but some of the original workings remained as the quarrymen had left them. The quarry is a secure document store now so no longer accessible. After its wartine service as an ammunition depot, Tunnel Quarry was used again by the government during the cold war as a secure underground facility for various communications and command and control functions apparently including an emergency national government. Apart from the entrance alongside Box Tunnel there was more conventional access from a base above the quarry alongside the A4. The railway entrance was rumoured to be intended for government personnel to be evacuated there by train from London if the cold war had become hot but that may be apocraphyl. As well as what the government built underground, several quarries continued to produce bathstone. Some of these to the south of Corsham were connected to the main line by a fairly extensive system of narrow gauge railways on the surface. I think some of these ran until the 1960s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnefoxile Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 At risk of perpetuating the tangent here's some interesting bits from our own government - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324883/Corsham_Tunnel_version1.pdf Fascinating document Andy, thanks for sharing. But still no mention of the 'Strategic reserve' Cheers Neal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Doncaster Green Posted July 31, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2015 Fascinating document Andy, thanks for sharing. But still no mention of the 'Strategic reserve' Cheers Neal. And there was me believing them when they told me the 'strategic reserve' was hidden in Woodhead!!! ATB John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I thought the yellow thing in the first photo was the prototype IEP. No, it's the latest idea for Pacer replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted July 31, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2015 I've now put a selection of photos from last weeks visit on 22/7/15 up in post 21. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 And there was me believing them when they told me the 'strategic reserve' was hidden in Woodhead!!! ATB John The strategic reserve was of course hidden in plain sight which everyone knows is the best way to hide anything. Have you never wondered why, compared to other countries with similar levels of railway enthusiasm, Britain has quite so many mainline steam locos running on "heritage" railways and even on the national network with trained crews. A bit of tweaking of the scrap contracts (unless you really believe that Barry was a lucky chance) the odd propaganda film like the Titfield Thunderbolt plus encouragement from various poets and writers who'd worked for the government during the war and hey presto! strategic reserve secured at almost no cost to the public purse. So much easier than all that mothballing and hiding of locos in damp tunnels. Other conspiracy theories are available. :crazy: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2015 The strategic reserve was of course hidden in plain sight which everyone knows is the best way to hide anything. Have you never wondered why, compared to other countries with similar levels of railway enthusiasm, Britain has quite so many mainline steam locos running on "heritage" railways and even on the national network with trained crews. A bit of tweaking of the scrap contracts (unless you really believe that Barry was a lucky chance) the odd propaganda film like the Titfield Thunderbolt plus encouragement from various poets and writers who'd worked for the government during the war and hey presto! strategic reserve secured at almost no cost to the public purse. So much easier than all that mothballing and hiding of locos in damp tunnels. Other conspiracy theories are available. :crazy: As is the truth - which was far less prosaic of course. But back to Box - does the good Cap'n know how much the track is being dropped by as it doesn't look like very much from his pics? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted August 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2015 And there was me believing them when they told me the 'strategic reserve' was hidden in Woodhead!!! ATB John Nah, it's in a little-known tunnel under the Lake District running between BNFL at Sellafield and the MOD Ammunition Dump at Longtown. That's why all steam was gradually concentrated around Carnforth and Carlisle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 1, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2015 As is the truth - which was far less prosaic of course. But back to Box - does the good Cap'n know how much the track is being dropped by as it doesn't look like very much from his pics? It depends on where in the tunnel it is. Being dropped more at the London-end, but I'll have to find out precise measurements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2015 Nah, it's in a little-known tunnel under the Lake District running between BNFL at Sellafield and the MOD Ammunition Dump at Longtown. That's why all steam was gradually concentrated around Carnforth and Carlisle. You are actually 'getting warm' - more so than you might have thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted August 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2015 Nah, it's in a little-known tunnel under the Lake District running between BNFL at Sellafield and the MOD Ammunition Dump at Longtown. That's why all steam was gradually concentrated around Carnforth and Carlisle. You are actually 'getting warm' - more so than you might have thought Provision for the Strategic Reserve was quite a topic of conversation when I was on preparatory work for Carlisle resignalling. We even kept a bit of the Waverley Route from Kingmoor Yard going north, which was referred to as the 'Longtown Siding', to give two routes of access to the MOD complex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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