The Keepers Grange Light Railway. By an outdoor novice.

[andyram]

I have always fancied a garden model railway. I have cast an eye over the Bachmann G scale sets and have considered these. I do have a large collection of 00 gauge stock. I know people run this gauge outside, but all of the layouts I have seen are built on raised wooden baseboards. I am wondering whether a ground level layout could be built and what would be the best base for such a layout. Would it be wood, concrete or stone? All advice welcome. I have plenty of indoor projects at present so this is a very long term project.

Edited June 12, 2016 by andyram

[PaulRhB]

Yes OO works fine in the garden, we built one 27 years ago and it was finally dismantled last year as my father was finding cleaning it at ground level too much. The track was all original though the point motors only lasted around ten years. We dug a shallow trench and filled it with small stones then concreted it with bricks laid on top. A marine ply board was covered in roofing felt, to look like ballast, and sealed with tar. The boards were replaced after about 12 years with a second renewal due leading to the abandonment.

We mixed peat with concrete to make sloping embankment sides that quickly covered in moss which looked good after a few years.

The cons? The concrete viaduct broke through the pond bottom after a few years so that became a big garden

Bird poo, twigs and berries need cleaning off before running and outside electrical boxes make cosy mouse houses! G scale is less hassle as it can brush past most errant plants instead of piling off in a major crash but it's no more reliable.

Bond all rail joints with wire so that you don't rely on the fishplates and apart from track cleaning it should be reliable

[stovepipe]

I think OO looks great in the garden, but needs to be at ground level to look best. If you are going to run in and out of a shed, then ideally the shed would be set lower than ground level so you can have a comfortable working height inside and no gradients. I still have MRC mags from the 1970s featuring Don Jones Miniature Birmingham New Street layout (DMNS) and even now I wonder at its sheer scale and complexity. A read through these articles still gets me daydreaming about all sorts of future possibilities.

 

Edit: some photos here

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/790-dons-miniature-new-street-88-05/

Edited July 19, 2015 by stovepipe

[Gwiwer]

I'm not in the garden but I am outside and exposed to weather and wind-borne debris.  

 

OO should work perfectly well but will require a lot of cleaning and maintenance.  Including before every running session.  I've heard of a line which used garden cloches as covers to keep the worst of nature and weather out but the cost would be high.  

 

Don't leave rolling stock out in the warm sun or damp of night and you should be fine.  And beware of any powder-weathered rolling stock brushing past damp vegetation!

 

Card and some plastic structures won't survive and neither will wood indefinitely.  

 

But I can vouch for the durability of Peco's code 100 Streamline track which has lasted outdoors in Australian conditions and in places fully exposed to hot sun, torrential rain and near-freezing temperatures.  The hottest temperature I've recorded has been 57C on the rail heads.  

[andyram]

Thanks for the comments, certainly food for thought. I certainly have a location in mind for a ground based 00 gauge model. I am just wondering what to use as a base.

[Dorkingian]

When considering what gauge and scale to choose for a garden line, you need to think about what rolling stock you already have or will want to buy.  You can forget about British-outline standard gauge in G scale unless you're a millionaire - and can wait for everything to be custom built for you.  There's not a lot of ready-to-run BR rolling stock in O gauge either (and the prices are impressive and the scale isn't always consistent).  So unless you like continental/US trains or British narrow gauge, then 00 is for you.  It works fine in the garden: there's more maintenance, but the scenery is already there!

 

My Dorking Garden Railway playlist gives a modest indication of what can be done in 00:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsMgMXSgho4Uk3OLauEHcUKzqUzm1F7ei

Edited July 23, 2015 by Dorkingian

[andyram]

When considering what gauge and scale to choose for a garden line, you need to think about what rolling stock you already have or will want to buy. You can forget about British-outline standard gauge in G scale unless you're a millionaire - and can wait for everything to be custom built for you. There's not a lot of ready-to-run BR rolling stock in O gauge either (and the prices are impressive and the scale isn't always consistent). So unless you like continental/US trains or British narrow gauge, then 00 is for you. It works fine in the garden: there's more maintenance, but the scenery is already there!

 

My Dorking Garden Railway playlist gives a modest indication of what can be done in 00:

 

Love the videos you linked here. It is an impressive looking layout. What have you used as the base for the track, especially where the railway appears to be at ground level? Edited July 23, 2015 by andyram

[28XX]

I'm sure there is scope for redefining the construction method for garden railways using modern materials, eg closed cell foam boards in place of life-limited timber and heavy / messy concrete.

 

I haven't tried it, but for someone just starting out, it might be prudent to try some experiments before committing to major civil engineering works in traditional materials.

[Dorkingian]

Love the videos you linked here. It is an impressive looking layout. What have you used as the base for the track, especially where the railway appears to be at ground level?

 

My track base is either decking board (for straight sections) or old bookshelves or whatever I had available for cutting out the curved sections with a jigsaw.  Both of these are given a couple of coats of creocote, as real old-fashioned creosote isn't readily available now (and pre-treated decking board still seems to absorb more).  It's the same approach whether at ground level or not.  While this won't last for ever, it starts out flat and is fairly easy to lay track on.

[andyram]

My track base is either decking board (for straight sections) or old bookshelves or whatever I had available for cutting out the curved sections with a jigsaw.  Both of these are given a couple of coats of creocote, as real old-fashioned creosote isn't readily available now (and pre-treated decking board still seems to absorb more).  It's the same approach whether at ground level or not.  While this won't last for ever, it starts out flat and is fairly easy to lay track on.

Thanks. How long has the ground wood sections lasted so far? How gave you wired it?

[andyram]

Been offered some lengths of garden edging. Not seen them yet, could be stone or concrete. Just wondering whether they could be used for a decent base. Will have to have a look at them, but been told they are flat.

[Legend]

When considering what gauge and scale to choose for a garden line, you need to think about what rolling stock you already have or will want to buy. You can forget about British-outline standard gauge in G scale unless you're a millionaire - and can wait for everything to be custom built for you. There's not a lot of ready-to-run BR rolling stock in O gauge either (and the prices are impressive and the scale isn't always consistent). So unless you like continental/US trains or British narrow gauge, then 00 is for you. It works fine in the garden: there's more maintenance, but the scenery is already there!

 

My Dorking Garden Railway playlist gives a modest indication of what can be done in 00:

 

That's a really nice layout. Love the section on the bank, just looks like a Glen a Ogle on the Callendar and Oban clinging to the hillside. Just spent an enjoyable half hour watching the trains on You Tube. Thanks for that. Clearly there are no power drops around the layout. How did you manage that? Edited July 26, 2015 by Legend

[andyram]

I totally agree with the above post. The Dorking Garden Railway is stunning. I can only dream of achieving something of that standard.

[andyram]

I was browsing through the Internet this evening and found an interesting series of postings on another forum site which described how a 00 gauge garden railway was constructed with track laid straight onto concrete blocks near to ground level. A type of glue was used to fit the track in place after the tops of the blocks were painted in a rubber based paint. It seemed to work quite well, although the postings ended at 2013 with the layout not quite finished. It has certainly made my idea of using concrete blocks as a base for a near to ground level layout appear more possible.

[Jenny Emily]

I have seen videos on Youtube of an alternative method that looked interesting. Base blocks were laid nearly to rail height, then these were drilled, rawl plugged and screws added. Using a long piece of wood and a spirit level the screws were adjusted easily then O16.5 track was hot glued to the tops of the screws. Ballasting then took place using a mix of kiln dried sand and cement that was tamped with a brush just like indoor ballesting. When wetted it all set rock hard.

[andyram]

Picked up a couple of the previously mentioned stone blocks today. I thought I would experiment with ways of attaching track to them. The blocks are wide enough for a double track formation although they are only a couple of inches off the ground. The plan is to lay a short length of track to see how things go. Watch this space!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I know ground level or nearly so sounds appealing, but there is rain splash to think about. A downpour lifts grit and mud about nine inches above ground level, and it will be all over the track if it is in height range. Lots of cleaning required, because this is stuff you don't want in your mechanisms. Eighteen inches above ground, it stays pretty clean.

 

I used wood outdoors, tanalised gravel board as track base, two pieces arranged as a T section, supports from salvaged tops of wood fence posts cut in half and dug into the ground. Attached the boards to the posts with small gaps between ends, used greased brass screws; allowed for adjustment with changing hydration on a heavy clay soil which shrinks and heaves. Lasted a dozen years, a few boards warped like crazy early on and had to be replaced, the underground parts of the supports were fairly rotten, but still more than strong enough to take the very small load. On readying the property for sale, the woodwork was all ripped up and bonfired in one day; (the Peco track lives on in my current set up) you should bear in mind that most potential house purchasers probably don't want a layout in the garden.

 

Operation outdoors is real fun, especially if the trains are long. Environmental effects come into play. Headwinds can stop your train, as can some damp on the rails, (my advice think 'mighty pacifics' if it is to be steam, as these can take a lot more weight balanced over coupled wheels than the 4-6-0 type). Use large curve radii (be more realistic than P4ists and standardise on minimum 30' radii) and as few points as possible as these are maintenance heavy. I'd use DCC like a shot nowadays, continuous high (adjustable) track voltage and wireless control are an ideal combination. Run a heavy copper bus pair around under the track with frequent connections. The rail connectors will fail, got about five years life from them on average, suspect frost bursts them as they eventually split on the formed bends; just like the real railway there is pw maintenance to do.

 

I'd be outside now, were it not that the woodland life in the present location seems to like savaging the track. Between known villains - badger, squirrels, corvids -  and at least one other unidentified varmint there was near continuous damage over the two years I tried it, so indoors it has to be.

[andyram]

Thanks for the advice. I do plan to raise the blocks a little higher if possible as I have already been warned about rain splash. I definitely don't intend to use many points and the idea is to provide a place for my larger Pacific locomotives a chance to stretch their legs. I also plan to use wire across all connections as I have read that this is crucial.

At present this is all at the experimental stage.

[PaulRhB]

Planting ground cover plants around it to look like embankments meant we never had a problem. Birds crapping on the track, twigs and berries off trees were far more of an issue

[andyram]

Planting ground cover plants around it to look like embankments meant we never had a problem. Birds crapping on the track, twigs and berries off trees were far more of an issue

Thanks. I do plan to plant ground cover plants next to the line. The garden is very much a blank canvas at the moment, with all having been turfed by the builders prior to us moving in. I have started digging out some flower beds. The loose plan is to have a double track circuit around the edge, winding through the flower beds and do blending in with the surroundings. Thanks to all for the advice so far.

[andyram]

Several months have passed since my last post. The garden railway dream faded as last summer came to a close with preparation for the new school year taking over. Since then we have passed through Autumn, Winter and much of the Spring. But now those dreams are beginning to resurface once again.

This week I have been back out in the garden digging out more flower beds and planting more stuff. I continue to look at the garden and think about where a railway may go. After last year's thoughts about 00 I have returned to the G scale idea. I think that it may be a better scale to start with. It is built for the garden after all, and I can learn the skills of laying track in the garden with the bigger stuff first. So G scale it is.

A few days ago I was trawling EBay whilst enjoying a relaxing ale at home. Dangerous! I am now the proud owner of 12 pieces of curved G gauge track. Everyone has to start somewhere!

[Nearholmer]

G scale is definitely a safer bet than 00 in the garden, and if you've bought decent track, you can get going by simply plonking it down on a well-mown, reasonably flat, lawn.

 

I've tried various track formations over the years, and ended-up with possibly the most over-specified track-bed known to mankind, but don't let that put you off - most sensible people don't do this!

 

It is, however, boy, football, and dog proof, which most track-beds aren't.

 

You can lay LGB track in a shallow scrape, lined with weed membrane and filled with gravel, topped with potting grit. Avoid wooden things in the ground, 'cos they go rotten, even if nominally well preserved.

 

Aerated concrete blocks work very well as a low trackbed. I know a guy who has quite an extensive line, laid using these blocks laid on their sides into a shallow scrape, bedded into weak-mix, and it has been in place for 20+ years. The blocks do slowly crumble under the action of frost, but not so rapidly as to worry about. https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/H%2BH-Celcon-Hi-7-Aerated-Concrete-Block-7-3N-100mm/p/837344

 

And, if you plan to use battery or track power, you don't need to be too precious about line, level, or gradients. Those things get much more important with steam, though.

 

Kevin

Edited May 31, 2016 by Nearholmer

[andyram]

I am planning to lay the track on either concrete blocks or stone ballast. The track is LGB I think. At present I have no locomotive, but my preferred type would be DC track powered or battery. I have my eye on a very nice radio controlled German outline loco although I will need to save a little for that. The Bachmann Thomas range appeals to me (and my daughter). I have also seen the Locolines kits on EBay. These are extremely cheap though.

[Nearholmer]

Personally, I find that our children, and their cousins and friends (ages 2-8) get on really well with this Playmobil train https://www.amazon.co.uk/Playmobil-5258-Action-Control-Freight/dp/B0077QSSTU , which has absolutely first-class 2.4GHz radio control, with a better-designed handset than you get from, for instance, Roundhouse. The loco is quite popular with experienced garden railway bods, who build UK-styles superstructures for it.

 

The Bachmann ones we looked at, but they cost a lot more, and the children spotted straight away that you can't put "people" in them, whereas the Playmobil one is, naturally, designed for that. The fact that it is a rather ugly industrial diesel, rather than Thomas, doesn't seem to bother them one bit - they are more interested in sending 'people' on train rides.

 

Anyway, enjoy whatever you choose.

 

K

 

PS: I gave up on track power, about fifteen years ago, because I got fed-up with cleaning the track!

Edited May 31, 2016 by Nearholmer

[andyram]

I do like the look of the Play Mobil set with the yellow diesel and am considering that. I know that I want metal track because it will give me the greatest flexibility. I can run track powered, battery / R.C or even live steam on such track. Also, as the garden is south facing and parts get a lot of sun I would be concerned about the effects the extreme temperatures would have on plastic track.

So far I have purchased 12 pieces of metal curved track and a small flat wagon. These have not arrived yet.