G.W.R cast name and number plates for wagons in early Twentieth century

[drduncan]

Does anyone have information or better still drawings for the cast wagon name (G.W.R) and number plates used in the late 1890s and early 1900s? Eg what is the closest font for designing your own etched versions?

Thanks for any help

drduncan

[Ian Smith]

Duncan,

 

I think Masokits used to do some in 4mm.  Whether they were for specific wagons (e.g. the old coopercraft ones) I don't know.  Similarly I have no idea if they are still available - I have a faint recollection that there were some for cattle wagons available too (e.g. "LARGE" as well as the "G.W.R" plates).

 

I had a mind to do some in 2mm but in the end decided that they were so small that I could print something off on photo paper, and at normal viewing distances that they would suffice.

 

Ian

[drduncan]

Duncan,

 

I think Masokits used to do some in 4mm.  Whether they were for specific wagons (e.g. the old coopercraft ones) I don't know.  Similarly I have no idea if they are still available - I have a faint recollection that there were some for cattle wagons available too (e.g. "LARGE" as well as the "G.W.R" plates).

 

I had a mind to do some in 2mm but in the end decided that they were so small that I could print something off on photo paper, and at normal viewing distances that they would suffice.

 

Ian

Hi Ian,

Thanks - I've got some masokits ones already, but Michael doesn't do the specific ones I want, so i'll need to prepare my own artwork for etching or lazer cutting.

Regards

Duncan

PS Hows Modbury doing?

[Ian Smith]

Hi Ian,

Thanks - I've got some masokits ones already, but Michael doesn't do the specific ones I want, so i'll need to prepare my own artwork for etching or lazer cutting.

Regards

Duncan

PS Hows Modbury doing?

Duncan,

Modbury is still packed up since its outing to the 2mm Expo at Chelford.  I've been progressing a couple of other projects instead.  First up is a rivet press/punch that I can house on my lathe and use the cross and top slides to produce rows of rivets at a specific pitch.  I wanted to make one of these because the next loco I intend making will be an outside framed one so there are lots of bolts/rivets that I feel really need to be present even in 2mm scale.  The second is a GWR O2 siphon kit that was produced by a fellow 2mm Association member, I've just about finished it now having started it a couple of years ago - just got the decals to put on having put a few churns inside and the roof on this morning.

 

Ian

[Western Star]

The previous posts to this topic have been interested in 2mm and 4mm versions of the plates.  Given that I have a need for plates for 7mm models, the original question is still relevant.

 

Anyone any ideas on dimensions? typeface? maybe even where an example can be seen?  I have discussed this subject with Pete Speller, (aka K14) and there jury is out on any conclusion.

 

Extending the subject slightly, at the same time as some wagons were given the number, tare and GWR plates, there were some brake vans which received a cast plate for the allocation.  I have seen photos in OPC books of just two vans with "name" plates - how common was this feature?

 

regards, Graham

Edited February 3, 2019 by Western Star

[81C]

Narrow Planet will make any plate you want it's good service but custom jobs take a while.

 

 

https://shop.narrowplanet.co.uk/collections/custom-etched-products

Edited February 3, 2019 by 81C

[Miss Prism]

18 minutes ago, Western Star said:

Anyone any ideas on dimensions? typeface? maybe even where an example can be seen?  I have discussed this subject with Pete Speller, (aka K14) and there jury is out on any conclusion.

 

For 7mm,  I think the best bet would be to measure the plates in the Slaters ex-Coopercraft kits. I've never seen a drawing of a wagon number plate. Dimensions of solebar plates are known,  but I don't know offhand when these started appearing. 

 

Extending the subject slightly, at the same time as some wagons were given the number, tare and GWR plates, there were some brake vans which received a cast plate for the allocation.  I have seen photos in OPC books of just two vans with "name" plates - how common was this feature? 

 

The plate era was relatively short. I've only seen a couple of brake van pics with cast depot plates, but the absence of further evidence does not imply the evidence of presence or absence.

 

[Western Star]

On 03/02/2019 at 16:45, Miss Prism said:

I've never seen a drawing of a wagon number plate. Dimensions of solebar plates are known...

 

I've only seen a couple of brake van pics with cast depot plates...

 

For completeness, here is an extract from a GWR underframe drawing showing the wagon numberplate of the early part of the twentieth century.

 

 

I am aware of a couple of photos of "depot" plates on GWR brake vans courtesy of the gwr.org web-site.  Here is a reference to another example:-

 

* "Banbury and Cheltenham Direct Railway", published by Lightmoor Press, page 93.

 

where the brake van has a plate for Wolverhampton.

 

What other depot plates are known?

 

thank you, Graham

[Miss Prism]

Hi Graham

 

Thanks for drawing: can I use it for gwr.org?  (Although it does give me something of a dilemma, because the current liverieswagplate.html page gives overall dimensions as approx 14" x 7", whereas your drawing shows significantly smaller. Offhand, I don't know where I got the 14" x 7" dimensions from.)  The size of lettering/numbering for the body plates is bigger than the 2.125" height on the solebar plates, but it shouldn't be too difficult to sketch a body plate - the font style is the same as that in your drawing.

 

Secondly, I need to do some qualification on the gwr.org pages. On the main liverieswagongrey.html page, the application of the plates as "Around 1894 many newly built wagons..." is probably misleading, and it would probably be more accurate to say "Around 1894 some newly built wagons...": I'm not convinced the body plates were widespread and certainly not universal - the photographic evidence just doesn't bear it out.  It will be interesting to hear Mikkel's opinions on this matter, I also need to change the wagplate page to indicate that where cast body plates were carried, the numbers were also carried on cast plates on the ends of the wagons as well.

 

I haven't got the Lightmoor book, so the only two brake vans I know of with cast depot plates I've included on the gwr.org page. My guess is that the brake van cast plate application was probably not widespread.

 

[Western Star]

7 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Thanks for drawing: can I use it for gwr.org?

 

I haven't got the Lightmoor book...

I shall provide you with a new scan that does not clip the LH edge of the drawing...  and a scan of the title block for providence.

 

As to the photo of the brake van in the accident at Chipping Norton in 1907, the photo is from a commercial postcard in the collection of John Alsop.   Whilst the postcard is out of copyright I am not in favour of reproducing the image in the book without permission,  I shall ask Ian Pope when I see him later this month.

 

I have a spreadsheet of all numbers / diagrams found to date from searching through circa 30 books with a GWR interest.  The spreadsheet is available for those with an interest in the subject.

 

regards, Graham

[drduncan]

Graham,

I’d appreciate the spreadsheet.

Regards,

Duncan

[Western Star]

My spreadsheet is as complete as I can achieve with the material available to me.  I have asked Pete Speller and John Lewis to fill in some of the gaps especially the build periods for the Lots that included the wagons detailed in the spreadsheet.  Pete @K14 has given some corrections to my suggested photo dates by reference to paint dates where visible, I am waiting for a response from John.

 

Duncan, PM your email address to me.

 

regards, Graham

Edited February 8, 2019 by Western Star

[Flymo749]

On 15/02/2019 at 16:22, God's Wonderful Railway 1835 said:

Haven't Scalefour got the old Morgan etches which I think might have included these or was it just the solebar plates. 

 

Looking into the Scalefour Stores, I don't see anything that obviously leaps out as being a set of numberplates for the body side of wagons.  There is the full range of Morgan underframe kits for GWR wagons, but nothing about additional details. 

 

The universal GWR wagon underframe etch does look as though it includes a large selection of solebar plates.  See the attached image.

 

Cheers

Flymo