Class 387/2 GatEx

[Bumpkin]

 

The first image of the new Gatwick Express stock has been released. Personally I'm not sure on the livery choice on this stock. Looks a bit Deutsche Bahn to me. Won't these reduce capacity from the current 5 car Class 442?

[roundhouse]

Yuk!!

 

Reminds me that I must get out and take more shots of the 442's - can hear them from our house if the wind is in the right direction.

[Bumpkin]

More details can be found on the Global Rail website.

 

https://www.globalairrail.com/news/entry/first-brand-new-gatwick-express-carriage-on-test

[Glorious NSE]

image.jpg

 

The first image of the new Gatwick Express stock has been released. Personally I'm not sure on the livery choice on this stock. Looks a bit Deutsche Bahn to me. Won't these reduce capacity from the current 5 car Class 442?

Just thankful it's not plain grey!

 

12x 387 should equate to 10x 442 train length wise.

[Steadfast]

Gonna stick my head out here...I quite like the red. Despite seeing it nearly every day at work, being reminiscent of DB is no bad thing, simple and workman like! Hopefully the rest of the livery is quite nice

 

jo

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Interesting that 2 x 2 seating is now a selling-point. Pity Southern can't retrofit these to the 377s.

[4630]

.

[stewartingram]

Now that livery is almost sensible!

 

Stewart

[Gwiwer]

The 387/2s are in almost daily use on the Brighton line for testing now.  They are running as far as Bletchley though will spend their working lives on the "Southern" as things stand.

 

The intention is to operate 12-car trains to replace the 10-car class 442 rosters, and 8-car trains to replace the single 5-car 442s at less busy times.  The new timetable sees alternate Gatwick Express workings extended through to and from Brighton meaning these units will bring a third livery to the coastal city for its London services.  Southern will operate the semi-fast trains as now with green 377s.  Thameslink will continue with the Bedford trains which ultimately will be in their new white livery and will soon be formed of class 700 units.  

 

Gatwick Express will operate the fast trains previously marketed as Capital City Express and run by Southern which thus gain a stop at Gatwick Airport and mean that nothing will run through there non-stop other than a few peak-time trains.  

 

The price differential remains in place between Gatwick and London though no distinction is made for journeys to or from Brighton for which the same fares apply as on Southern trains.  There remain other anomalies such as Southern-only discounted fares and the DaySave ticket which is effectively an unlimited-travel Southern-only offer.  Considering Southern, GatEx and Thameslink are now all part of one franchise and that there are increasingly strident complaints about overcrowding of Southern services between Victoria and Gatwick (especially the already-crowded east-and-west Sussex coast ones) this situation seems more than faintly ridiculous.

 

New rolling stock is welcome but surely it is also time to shift the burden and allow Gatwick Express to do what it is intended to do namely take the majority share of the Victoria - Gatwick traffic.  That it has not done since the differential fare was introduced.  And while I don't particularly care for the livery it's at least a good deal better than the Thameslink / Great Northern efforts which are plain boring and will be hard to keep clean.

[eastwestdivide]

... working 5B89, 0835 Bletchley TMD to Bletchley TMD via the West London Line and Brighton....

 

 

So they're dual voltage I presume. Is that just sensible future-proofing, or are they intended to move on from Gatwick duties at some point?

 

(Sorry, I got hopelessly lost when I tried to read up on recent EMU orders, where it seems things are being ordered by one company to be subleased by another to release this and that to cover for late delivery of the other. So to speak)

[Gwiwer]

Leasing and sub-leasing is starting to get a little complicated!

 

The 387/2s are for Gatwick Express services only as things stand today but are built dual-voltage/ system as a standard and as future-proofing.  

 

Remember the TSGN franchise also runs to Milton Keynes, Bedford and all the "local" routes out of Kings Cross and Moorgate so there's a good chance the 25kV kit will be used at some time.

[Vin]

Hi all,

I like that copper livery. Have they changed it from the red so it doesn't get mistaken for a Virgin train?

 

Regards

Vin

[Christopher125]

Hi all,

I like that copper livery. Have they changed it from the red so it doesn't get mistaken for a Virgin train?

 

Regards

Vin

 

I think it's just the reflections that make it look 'coppery', it's a pretty bright red.

 

387201 + 387202 Clapham Junction 11.11.15 by Jonathan Francis, on Flickr

[John M Upton]

Hopefully the fact they are bright red might persuade the hordes of oversized suitcases brigade to actually get on the right train.  Loads of Gatwick Express valid tickets appear on the stopping services and will have shelled out about an extra fiver per head for the privilege.

 

I gather that the expresses from Brighton will be stopping at Gatwick has not proved overly popular, many take the Brighton Express because it doesn't stop at Gatwick and therefore avoids the large luggage brigade.

 

Now it just won't stop at Croydon and Clapham instead.  I predict confusion when this all starts in a few weeks time!!

[roythebus]

It's S stock in disguise.

[Vin]

Hi,

That last photo is really red just like the July photos. Why the other photos look like copper red, who knows?

 

Regards

Vin

[cheesysmith]

Now we have another colour for these, we just need Hornby to make a model of the electrostar family of units now. I say Hornby because if they can get the model dimentionally correct and running right, their motor bogie as used in their 73/101 etc would be better than bachmanns 1/3 of a coach motor mounting. And they already do the correct coupler, just in their continental range.

[newbryford]

Is the red simply a base colour for application of TOC vinyls? Or are they just going to get simple (i.e. small) operator branding?

 

I remember the 185's being delivered in plain blue on test before full application of fleet branding.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Wherry Lines]

TOC's seem to be moving towards simpler liveries. Greater Anglia, GWR and now this lot too.

 

Makes repaints easier I suppose!

[jjb1970]

These look rather attractive to me. Based on my experiences comparing London Midland Desiros and Southern Electrostars over the same stretch of the WCML the Electrostar is a noticeably smoother ride than the Desiro and a nicer feeling train.

[Southernman46]

How long have the 442's got ??

[newbryford]

How long have the 442's got ??

 

Depends who you talk to.

There's mention of them in the tender documents for the re-jigged Northern/Transpennine franchises. To be loco hauled and the current favourite is a Class 68.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Gwiwer]

Hopefully the fact they are bright red might persuade the hordes of oversized suitcases brigade to actually get on the right train.  Loads of Gatwick Express valid tickets appear on the stopping services and will have shelled out about an extra fiver per head for the privilege.

 

I gather that the expresses from Brighton will be stopping at Gatwick has not proved overly popular, many take the Brighton Express because it doesn't stop at Gatwick and therefore avoids the large luggage brigade.

 

Now it just won't stop at Croydon and Clapham instead.  I predict confusion when this all starts in a few weeks time!!

 

I have to agree John.  It's a wholesale timetable change quite apart from the colour of the trains.  Validity of some tickets will also enforce changed travel habits with certain fare types "Not (valid on) Gatwick Express" and presumably including Brighton - London trips on DaySave tickets.

 

To summarise:-

 

The half-hourly fast Brighton - Victoria trains will change from Southern (green 377s) to Gatwick Express (red 387/2s) and will stop only at Gatwick Airport in between;

The other Gatwick Express services which maintain the 15-minute headway to London are unchanged other than converting to the Red Devils (a nickname I've already heard in use)

The semi-fast Brighton - Victoria service is enhanced from hourly to half-hourly (which Southern always wanted but the then-separate Thameslink mob objected to) with changed stopping patterns - one each hour will stop at Hassocks or Burgess Hill then all serve Gatwick, one serves Horley and all serve East Croydon and Victoria.  Worked by Southern with 377s

The Brighton - Bedford service will pick up former Southern stops at intermediate Brighton line stations using 387/1 and soon class 700 units and effectively becomes the stopping service to London (Blackfriars, City, etc)

 

Preston Park will have an hourly Southern service to Victoria as now formed by the Southern service from Littlehampton though this will now stop at both Lancing and Portslade but not Hassocks or Burgess Hill

Burgess Hill will also be served by the alternate Littlehampton service which becomes the more attractive option to and from the coast no longer serving either Lancing or Portslade, nor Hassocks and is slightly quicker than before.

Wivelsfield also has an hourly Southern service to Victoria formed of the Eastboune service which also stops at Plumpton hourly throughout the day (new all-day service); the other Eastbourne train on the half-hourly service runs fast Haywards Heath - Lewes.

 

More detail and how it affects individual train here : http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/plan-your-journey/timetables/dec-2015

 

I've said it before and I don't expect anything to change but the splitting of Sussex coast trains into 8-car and 4-car portions at Haywards Heath is severely flawed.  The 4-car portion usually goes to Littlehampton and is often grossly overcrowded.  I've been unable to board up trains at Worthing for example because they are jammed to the doors.  The one-time hourly 12-car service offered more seats.  Class 377 units can be modified to become 6-car sets, or the 377/3 units dedicated to these services and used to form two six-car portions which will go some way to evening the mismatch.  Better still in my opinion would be to revert to an hourly through train dedicated to each coast formed of 12 cars.  With SDO and good on-board announcements the short platforms west of Worthing should no longer be an issue.

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I know why they run the Gatwick Express, but that does not take away the frustration of seeing a nearly empty train passing through a rammed East Croydon station when the services to Victoria are stuffed up! These services do seem a bit of an indulgent luxury during peak times on an already overcrowded network.

 

That said, the new units look smart, and will provide a splash of colour. I'll miss the 442s, even if it just for the ride-quality...the 377s can have an appalling ride, especially over the bogies.

[John M Upton]

The whisper I have heard repeatedly is that in the first instance a few 442's will be retained for the Eastbourne to London Bridge train they currently run.  The plan may well have changed since then of course.

 

The 387/2's will receive Express branding before entering service.