BR Early 60's Fuel Tankers

[silverlink]

Can anyone tell me what type of fuel tankers British Railways used in the early 60's to supply its own diesel fuelling points at sheds/depots. Any information on size, colour and graphics would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ian H

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Ian

 

It would depend on which company supplied the depot as to what type of tank wagons it had. The two main suppliers were Esso and Shell-BP.

 

Esso were using 35 ton GLW (Airfix/Dapol model) tank wagons. At a few locations it was still using unfitted 14 ton wagons.

 

Shell-BP were behind Esso in their wagon development and were supplying depots with diesel in unfitted 14 ton, 12 ton and even older 10 ton wagons. Many of the smaller oil companies were using the older unfitted wagons.

 

All of these would be class B wagons, they would be black.

 

Things changed quite rapidly after 1963 with the introduction of the 45 ton GLW wagons (Hornby and Bachmann TTA models). Early 45 ton tanks were vacuum braked, and in some cases dual braked. These were later air braked but this took place outside of your time period. Esso continued to use the 35 ton GLW alongside the 45ton GLW. Shell- BP seemed to change overnight from old wagons to the new ones. Again the wagons would be black Class B tanks.

Towards the end of the 60s grey Class A 45 ton tanks would be seen at depots. Diesel has a high flash point therefore is a class B oil, but unlike most class B oils it is a clean one and can be transported in Class A tanks (most class A oils are clean). Older silver or grey tanks cannot be used at loco depots as they had top discharge where the fuel was siphoned out and most depots were only equiped to deal with bottom discharge only. The 45 ton tanks had bottom discharge like the Class B tanks because of improved valve design.

 

Here is a link to my motley collection of unbraked tank wagons I was making for my old layout. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/?p=812931

 

If you are building a diesel depot please remember to make the storage tanks look like they hold more fuel than the volume contained in the train supplying them.

[silverlink]

Hi Clive,

Many thanks for your most informative reply, I will see if I have any tanks that fit your information. I have been looking at your link to your layout and am most impressed with your endeavours, very much like my own interests in the 'green' era diesels. You may have seen my layout 'Haymarket Cross' on the circuit or mags where I try to replicate the 1961/2 era with no yellow ends on my diesel fleet. 

I decided to build into the layout a diesel refuelling point with me running so many of them at shows and am using mainly Knightwing kits to do it.

I will post some photos when I get it completed.

Cheers

Ian

[kenw]

If you are building a diesel depot please remember to make the storage tanks look like they hold more fuel than the volume contained in the train supplying them.

 

Which doesn't need to be too large either, even a major depot like Gateshead, the fuel road only held three or at most four tanks at a time as I recall, which were tripped in virtually daily by the Park Lane Pilot from the nearby T.C.F.D.

[Clive Mortimore]

Which doesn't need to be too large either, even a major depot like Gateshead, the fuel road only held three or at most four tanks at a time as I recall, which were tripped in virtually daily by the Park Lane Pilot from the nearby T.C.F.D.

Hi Ken

 

Very true, the storage tanks do not need to be too large but should be of a slightly larger volume than the supplying tank wagons, or else it can look silly. I know I built a layout with tanks of a smaller volume than the wagons.

 

 

With Brisbane Road, one of my current layouts the tanks are not to over powering but do hold more than the train.

 

My latest depot layout does not have any storage tanks, the locos were refuelled directly from the tank wagons, which is correct for Ranelagh Bridge.

[kenw]

That looks to be a good proportion. As I was pointing out, even a depot the size of Gateshead would have at most only four tanks at a time. if that.

Also remember for location / operation of the fuel point, normal practice would be for diesels to arrive straight onto the fuel point and be re-fueled on arrival on the depot, in the same way as steam locos going straight to the coaling stage. Only locos requiring exams / repairs then go into the shed, those simply waiting their next turn being stabled outside. Locos coming off exam / repair were also then stabled outside to await their next turn.

At Gateshead the "Daily Shed" fuel point also carried out 'A' exams, with only higher levels going to the shed. Being a maintenance shed, mainline locos weren't allowed to be run into or out of the shed and always had to be shunted dead using a pilot.

[hmrspaul]

This photo suggests that WR Westbourne Park servicing depot has Esso (BRT owned) 22ton Class A - the longer version of the Airfix/Dapol Class B. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrnpccs/e2a704729

 

I recollect seeing a photo of a Fina 35ton GLW class B on Kings Cross servicing depot.

 

Paul Bartlett

[silverlink]

Many thanks guys,

I've managed to locate some Dapol Esso kits which I've ordered and when they arrive I'll check them over and perhaps add a few detailing parts as required.

Ian

[Fat Controller]

To add to what others have written; in the mid/late 1960s, I used to visit Landore depot almost every Sunday. During my early visits, unfitted tanks were in evidence; most were the 14t, 4-wheel, type, but one day, there was an unfitted tank on diamond-frame bogies. I think this was an ESSO example.

The diesel storage tank at Landore was pretty big; it was built in the old turntable pit, which served as a bund.

[Pobrien]

A line of fuel tanks can be seen in this 1963 photo of Bristol Bath Road Diesel Depot, ironically among the steam engines stabled there.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/6646805583/in/photolist-rtMNri-rvuq6k-qKraS6-ocwV5K-ocwV6X-fc7Ers-dspxEN-d6YMYu-chCby7-c15YdJ-bPjKWi-bPjL48-bK2N5v-bHnYL2-bsoRKZ-b8mLtp-b8mBAP-b8mByX-b8mBJg-b8mBD6-b8mBs2-aFU5Sk-aFU5Y2-aqanan-9HikPM-9pPqyq-9pPqod-9pLoVT-9pPquN-9g5p2m-98wUQN-98tLxK-9xbd6o-9jm6ie-9g2hy2-9g2hAa-9aBmKF-9aEviw-943A2Z-946DyL-931HjM-931Hgt-8YShuf-8YPeRr-8YxPyH-8Yh4zR-8YfsCi/

 

Two years later some fuel storage tanks appear to have been built.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bristolsteam/6646805043/in/photolist-rtMNri-rvuq6k-qKraS6-ocwV5K-ocwV6X-fc7Ers-dspxEN-d6YMYu-chCby7-c15YdJ-bPjKWi-bPjL48-bK2N5v-bHnYL2-bsoRKZ-b8mLtp-b8mBAP-b8mByX-b8mBJg-b8mBD6-b8mBs2-aFU5Sk-aFU5Y2-aqanan-9HikPM-9pPqyq-9pPqod-9pLoVT-9pPquN-9g5p2m-98wUQN-98tLxK-9xbd6o-9jm6ie-9g2hy2-9g2hAa-9aBmKF-9aEviw-943A2Z-946DyL-931HjM-931Hgt-8YShuf-8YPeRr-8YxPyH-8Yh4zR-8YfsCi/

[silverlink]

First lay up of fuel depot and tanks, I have cut a groove all way round the fuel point to allow it to sit below rail height as I didn't want to have to remove and relay the track for better clearance. I have had to remove a few millimetres off one side to get it to fit but once it place it looks fine. I have fitted the curved roof which I think is correct for 1961/2, I found a reasonable photo of the fuelling point at Gateshead in 1961 and it looks very much like the one I've build

The tanks will have ballast round them plus extra pipework which I am waiting for from Knightwing

 

Cheers

Ian

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Ian

 

The Knightwing fuel point kit is a very good representation of a NER fuel point with either style of canopy.

[kenw]

Hi, that's looking good so far, and does look very much like the fuel points in front of the main shed at Gateshead. I always took it these were the early ones when the depot was first equipped to take diesels, before the 'daily shed' refueling point was built, and probably retained, I think, for emergency use. During my time there, late 70s till closure, I never knew these fuel points being used.

 

If I can make a couple further suggestions, both the refueling line and discharge line track would be on concrete aprons to collect any spillages which would then be separated from going into the drains.

Similarly, the area within the containment wall would be concreted, not ballasted.

 

 

The storage tanks at Heaton. Not too large, and these were built for when the depot serviced the HSTs stabled on Tyneside, when both the ECML and Cross Country were full HST services, before electrics or voyagers, as well as the local DMU fleet. Just visible at the right hand end by OHL mast, the pipe from the former tank discharge area passes over the containment wall. They're also some way from the actual fuel points, I'm roughly half way between the two. Also note, the two smaller, salmon coloured tanks, for lub oil

 

 

Depots also tended to use old withdrawn tanks for collecting waste oil etc.

Still at Heaton, seen here middle distance, a pair of 45t tanks, together with an old anchor mount type.

 

Hope this is of help

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Ken

 

You mention the retaining wall (or bung* as it is sometimes called), looking at photos these were not a feature of depots until the late 70s early 80s. Where they were built they would be able to contain the same volume as a full tank, so a bit of maths is required to get the wall height correct.

 

Edit, *Whoops I meant to say bund not bung. Cheers to Brian for pointing out my error. :blush: