Mol_PMB Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Also from my walk yesterday, a telephone probably for train control, and some more canal distance posts. This is the telephone, which was between Irlam and Barton at the location of a former passing loop: It is a mid-1930s design of outdoor telephone originally designed for Police use: https://www.britishtelephones.com/postpa1.htm After yet another mid-section collision in 1934, the MSC train control system on the Latchford to Irwell Park 'through route' was improved and it's likely that this telephone was installed at that time, Nearby on the same section of trackbed I found several distance markers along the canal bank. These face the water rather than the railway, so are probably more use for the ships than the trains. However there is some railway interest as they are mostly mounted on lengths of old rail. This is milepost 29 (from Eastham): Here are three of the wooden distance markers, note that some are on bullhead rail and some on flat-bottom: I have been trying to work out what these numbers measure. Based on the numbers on posts near the two mileposts I have located, these numbers are 52 times the number of miles. For the record, the 1300 post is about 20 feet above the 25 milepost, and the 29 milepost lies between the 1495 and 1515 posts. Is there an obscure old unit that is 1/52 of a mile? The nearest I can think of is that there are 5280 feet in a mile, but the numbers don't quite tally for a factor of 52.8. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enz Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 A suggestion - how about 1 60th of a nautical mile? Seems to about fit, taking 1 nautical mile as 1.1508 statute mile. Regards - E 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 Good thoughts. I think the lollipop mileposts are in statute miles rather than nautical miles, but the wooden distance markers may well be based on a different (later?) survey in different units. The other numbered things along the canal are the yellow navigation beacons, they are numbered sequentially with odds on one side and evens on the other (like houses in a street). I think the largest number is in the high 300s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) Bit of a prang in the canal yesterday evening! With strong gusty winds it's not so easy to steer a big ship in a narrow channel. 'Arklow Fern' had loaded 4000t of scrap steel at Irwell Park and was sailing for Rotterdam. I photographed her cautiously approaching Irlam locks in a brief burst of sunshine, and all seemed fine. Things did not go so well at Latchford where she wanted to enter the lock sideways! (not my photo): https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=908006726437156&set=p.908006726437156&type=3 https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3694353080618044&set=gm.2372968689493871 This morning the ship and lock are being inspected for damage before proceeding further. Edited March 12, 2021 by Mol_PMB 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Things did not go so well at Latchford where she wanted to enter the lock sideways! (not my photo): I think in racing circles they call that drifting 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 When it reaches Liverpool does the ship to Rotterdam turn left or right. Left looks the shortest route but also the busiest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, woodenhead said: When it reaches Liverpool does the ship to Rotterdam turn left or right. Left looks the shortest route but also the busiest Left (or to Port in nautical terminology). At the moment she's going nowhere, I think the captain must be waiting for his trousers to be returned from the Laundrette! Ships to/from Scandinavia go the the other way though; last year there were several shipments of grain from Sweden into Manchester and they came round the top of Scotland. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted March 12, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 12, 2021 Many years age a group of us hired a 70 foot narrow boat. Going up the Caldon Canal the wind caught it resulting in our boat ramming a working boat coming the opposite way - it was loaded with new pottery. We weren’t too popular! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Bit of a prang in the canal yesterday evening! With strong gusty winds it's not so easy to steer a big ship in a narrow channel. 'Arklow Fern' had loaded 4000t of scrap steel at Irwell Park and was sailing for Rotterdam. I photographed her cautiously approaching Irlam locks in a brief burst of sunshine, and all seemed fine. Things did not go so well at Latchford where she wanted to enter the lock sideways! (not my photo): https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=908006726437156&set=p.908006726437156&type=3 https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3694353080618044&set=gm.2372968689493871 This morning the ship and lock are being inspected for damage before proceeding further. Is this the ship that has been bringing in cement to Weaste? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Freeman Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Fascinating stuff this. When I was a lad, School Geography dept organised a boat trip on the Ship Canal, I believe we were told that the launch originally came from Venice. Apart from the photos I took the abiding memory is of the smell of the soap factories (not pleasant). The photos aren't of great quality as they are 35mm slides, now scanned into the computer, probably a bit dusty now but I will upload a few just in case they are of interest. Probably around 1965/6. 17 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, JohnH said: Is this the ship that has been bringing in cement to Weaste? No, this one came up empty and has taken a load of scrap steel from Irwell Park. Sometimes one of the Arklow fleet does bring cement when 'Arkonia' is busy elsewhere. 'Arkonia' is currently at Weaste though, unloading cement (and/or waiting for Latchford Locks to be repaired after the prang). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Stephen Freeman said: Fascinating stuff this. When I was a lad, School Geography dept organised a boat trip on the Ship Canal, I believe we were told that the launch originally came from Venice. Apart from the photos I took the abiding memory is of the smell of the soap factories (not pleasant). The photos aren't of great quality as they are 35mm slides, now scanned into the computer, probably a bit dusty now but I will upload a few just in case they are of interest. Probably around 1965/6. Stephen, Very much of interest, thanks so much for scanning and posting those! Great to see the MSC railway in action from the viewpoint of a boat, as that's exactly what my layout represents (or will when I've finished it!) Interesting to see both diesel and steam in action; there wasn't a long period where both the Sentinels and the steam locos were in use so it must have been mid 1960s as you say, and that's exactly the period I'm modelling too. Great to see a mixture of different wagon types in use, and even details like the vegetation on the canal banks is really useful to get it right for my modelling period. Now they are all overgrown with trees! Any more similar images would be much appreciated! Thanks again. Mol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Freeman Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 A few more. I may have one or two to add but not sure. 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Splendid - wonderfully evocative photos. Many thanks! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 More great photos Stephen. Full of detail and interest. Many thanks for posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 9 hours ago, Stephen Freeman said: A few more. I may have one or two to add but not sure. Thank you so much for posting these great shots. A real snapshot in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold A Murphy Posted March 13, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2021 The vessel in that first shot is a Liberty ship. As a child I was taken on board one in Manchester docks with my Dad, whose best friend was of Greek origin and alegedly was related to the owner. Thank you very much for posting these photos. Best wishes, Alastair M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 I've just been through Stephen's photos again looking in more detail and there really is a wealth of inspirational detail there, which will be really useful for detailing up my MSC layout. One of my next jobs is to add the vegetation to the canal bank, which has changed so much over the years. It's very clear in Stephen's photos that where the bank meets the water was not a row of reeds and rushes, but a nearly-black band (oily/polluted?) with no plants at all. Above that it's long grass, brambles and scrub, which will be an interesting challenge to model convincingly. From a railway point of view, there are some interesting details too, I've just picked out a few: Photo 1 I think is near Weaste and includes both a Sentinel and a steam loco, a combination which didn't last very long as it was the delivery of the Sentinels that replaced the last of the kettles. That same photo includes a rake of 16t minerals with sheets on them, not a sight commonly seen. Photo 2 probably also near Weaste shows a nice variety of BR hoppers surrounding the HC 'long tank'. There is one of the big HC diesels 4001/4002 hiding on the right hand side of the photo. Photo 3 has a Sentinel hauling a rake of the ubiquitous MSC 5-plank wagons, all different! I think this is in front of the Irwell Park warehouses. Photo 4 has oil storage tanks next to a frozen meat store; I think this was just at the end of Daniel Adamson Road in Weaste. The blue tank wagons are interesting, although in a fairly consistent livery they are not all the same design. Photo 7 has a nice view of an HC 204hp diesel of the type I'm building, with a rake of MSC 5-planks loaded with timber. Several of the photos of MSC 5-planks show wagons with the door lower than the sides; this is a type that would be interesting to model (and might be a conversion from a higher-sided wagon?) but I haven't yet found a close-up photo of one. Photo 11 is Irwell Park mineral wharf with the big grab cranes. One MSC wagon in the older livery, rather tatty. Photo 22, hiding behind the buffer stop by the entrance to 9 dock is an MSC double bolster. I've modelled one of these with a timber load. Some of my MSC opens are loaded with bundled planks as shown stacked on the quayside in this photo. Photo 24, more of those blue tank wagons, a variety of different sizes and tank mounting arrangements. Salford City was sewage disposal vessel and is probably loading sludge at Weaste Photo 27, not much of railway interest but a lovely view of the big 250 ton floating crane doing a heavy lift on some cargo. A pair of MSC diesel tugs (of different types) sandwich the crane. Thanks again, Stephen! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 On 12/03/2021 at 08:32, Mol_PMB said: Bit of a prang in the canal yesterday evening! Things did not go so well at Latchford where she wanted to enter the lock sideways! (not my photo): https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=908006726437156&set=p.908006726437156&type=3 https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=3694353080618044&set=gm.2372968689493871 This morning the ship and lock are being inspected for damage before proceeding further. Reminds me of an episode of 'The Navy Lark': "Now that this fog is lifting, maybe we can see where we are." "Starboard lookout here, sir. Land ahoy starboard side." "Port lookout here, sir. Land ahoy port side." "We must be sailing up the Irish Sea. Bring her about, Chief." "Bring her about it is, sir." CRUNCH. "We've run aground, sir. Both ends." "It would have helped if the lookouts had told us just how close 'land ahoy' was..." "Starboard lookout here again, sir. I can see a sign on the bank. It says 'No fishing. By order. Manchester Ship Canal'" 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 I also have a few pick take on the ship canal circa 1972/73 on a Saturday afternoon, mainly taken behind the Perspex cabin windows of a water bus, mainly of what was on the canal at the time and showing structures on the Warfs 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Many thanks John, those are really interesting too. Some things have changed in the few years between Stephen's photos and yours, for example the container cranes on 9 dock. But other things are the same, like 'Salford City' the sewage vessel. By 1972/73 most of the MSC rail system serving the docks was being abandoned, though the through route to Cadishead lasted a bit longer, as did some lines in Trafford Park. Interesting to see that there were still some MSC wagons around the docks then. Cheers, Mol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 A few more 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 These are brilliant photos John - many thanks for posting them. My two sons live in an apartment on the quayside of number 9 dock on the opposite side to where the Manchester Liners cranes were. It's great to show them what the area looked like back in the day. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mol_PMB Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 @JohnH, you may also be interested in my Flickr album here. Not my photos (I wasn't born) but I scanned Leslie Gordon's original slides and shared them (with permission). These are from around 1958-1960: 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandhole Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 37 minutes ago, johnd said: I also have a few pick take on the ship canal circa 1972/73 on a Saturday afternoon, mainly taken behind the Perspex cabin windows of a water bus, mainly of what was on the canal at the time and showing structures on the Warfs One of my Father's pupils was first mate on the Salford City's sister ship. Ah, the 'fragrance' as my parents and me were given the guided tour. Great shots, brought back some good memories. Regards, Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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