Manchester ship canal railway

[62613]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

Wasn't aware ships were still coming that far up - that wharf is next to a new housing estate - buy a house with a view of the ship canal (over the piles of scrap metal).

 

Does anything dock at Cargill?

I worked several times for a company near there (Daniel Adamson Road) on and off from 2007. From about 2012, there has been occasional use of that wharf, but fairly steadily in 2015-6. Most of the ships using it seem to be about 2000 to 4000 dwt. I suspect if rail was used to transport the loads (aggregates? grain?) you'd need one or two trains running as required for every ship.

 

[Mol_PMB]

In lockdown I've been keeping a log of the shipping on the upper reaches of the canal and taking photos of them when I can. It's something to do within walking distance of home!

Some of my photos here, they also include a few lower down the canal from times when we were allowed to travel:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/50559291@N03/albums/72157686993516991

 

In 2020 the following cargo vessels came above Irlam Locks (excluding dredgers, maintenance vessels, warships etc):

• 34 loads of Irish cement to Weaste, of which 22 were the vessel 'Arkonia'.
• 12 loads of grain to Cargill, all in vessels from the Arklow fleet. Most from France but some from Sweden.
• 5 loads of scrap from Irwell Park, 1 of which was taken by a vessel that had brought in grain to Cargill.
• 1 load of grain to Esprit Logistics at the old dry docks next to 'Coronation Street'.

In 2021 so far we've had 'Arklow Cliff' with grain for Cargill, 'Arkonia' with cement, and 'Pinnau' taking scrap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[62613]

7 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

In lockdown I've been keeping a log of the shipping on the upper reaches of the canal and taking photos of them when I can. It's something to do within walking distance of home!

Some of my photos here, they also include a few lower down the canal from times when we were allowed to travel:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/50559291@N03/albums/72157686993516991

 

In 2020 the following cargo vessels came above Irlam Locks (excluding dredgers, maintenance vessels, warships etc):

• 34 loads of Irish cement to Weaste, of which 22 were the vessel 'Arkonia'.
• 12 loads of grain to Cargill, all in vessels from the Arklow fleet. Most from France but some from Sweden.
• 5 loads of scrap from Irwell Park, 1 of which was taken by a vessel that had brought in grain to Cargill.
• 1 load of grain to Esprit Logistics at the old dry docks next to 'Coronation Street'.

In 2021 so far we've had 'Arklow Cliff' with grain for Cargill, 'Arkonia' with cement, and 'Pinnau' taking scrap.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Superb set of photos! On another note, how is Port Salford progressing?. I didn't think you could get up as far as those drydocks; aren't Mode Wheel Locks blocked?

 

[Mol_PMB]

Just now, 62613 said:

Superb set of photos! On another note, how is Port Salford progressing?. I didn't think you could get up as far as those drydocks; aren't Mode Wheel Locks blocked?

 

There are photos of two dredgers and a cargo ship at Media City in the past 3 months!

 

Port Salford seems to have stalled. It is still a rather pleasant area of scrubland teeming with birds. Just one large warehouse and the lifting bridge have been built as part of the project. Here is 'Arkonia' passing the site of the proposed quay:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[woodenhead]

5 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Superb set of photos! On another note, how is Port Salford progressing?. I didn't think you could get up as far as those drydocks; aren't Mode Wheel Locks blocked?

 

Boats do appear past Mode Wheel to get to the canals and Irwell - but not ships.

 

I stand corrected by the post before me - cargo vessels still appear as well - wow.

Edited January 17, 2021 by woodenhead

[woodenhead]

6 minutes ago, 62613 said:

Superb set of photos! On another note, how is Port Salford progressing?. I didn't think you could get up as far as those drydocks; aren't Mode Wheel Locks blocked?

 

Port Salford, they've been given a grant I believe to begin the work to connect the rail lines - there are bridge abutments built but no bridge or actual physical work undertaken so far.

 

As Mol_PMB says there is warehousing going up (slowly) but Peel seem to have turned their heads to housing and are agressively looking to build on some of the ajoining land.

[Mol_PMB]

Just now, woodenhead said:

Boats do appear past Mode Wheel to get to the canals and Irwell - but not ships.

I beg to disagree.

With a bit of Navy in my heritage it's been several decades since a 'boat' (i.e. submarine) came to Manchester!

But seriously, the photos above show 'Eastern Vanquish' with a deadweight (capacity) of over 3500 tonnes above Mode Wheel. I think she deserves to be called a ship.

https://www.scotline.co.uk/mv-eastern-vanquish/

 

[woodenhead]

41 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

I beg to disagree.

 

I edited my post immediately after I posted as then I saw all your pictures of ships past Mode Wheel.

 

[Sandhole]

Thanks for all the shots folks.
I can keep on taking liner train shots through Deansgate for the time being then.
Lockdown permitting of course.

Chris.

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, Sandhole said:

Thanks for all the shots folks.
I can keep on taking liner train shots through Deansgate for the time being then.
Lockdown permitting of course.

Chris.

Yes, though I expect you to keep an eye on the Weaste branch too, please ;-)

[Sandhole]

Just now, Mol_PMB said:

Yes, though I expect you to keep an eye on the Weaste branch too, please ;-)

I'll try and do that.

[woodenhead]

Just returned from a walk at Worsley Woods on the old loop line from Patricroft to Bolton Great Moor Street.

 

What has that to do with the Ship Canal - well I have to cross it to get to the woods and the canal aqueduct, the low level swing bridge and the new lifting bridge are all currently in the open state for the Canal as a ship is on it's way one direction or the other - I saw the ship in the distance but as it was viewed end on I don't know the direction of travel.

[Mol_PMB]

6 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Just returned from a walk at Worsley Woods on the old loop line from Patricroft to Bolton Great Moor Street.

 

What has that to do with the Ship Canal - well I have to cross it to get to the woods and the canal aqueduct, the low level swing bridge and the new lifting bridge are all currently in the open state for the Canal as a ship is on it's way one direction or the other - I saw the ship in the distance but as it was viewed end on I don't know the direction of travel.

Good spot! It's Arkonia, heading down. Currently in Barton Locks.

https://www.vesselfinder.com/

 

[woodenhead]

I am starting to think this is a regular passage - it's not the first time on the way back I've gone back via the canal and got the aqueduct to find it open at this time on a Sunday.

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I am starting to think this is a regular passage - it's not the first time on the way back I've gone back via the canal and got the aqueduct to find it open at this time on a Sunday.

 

The ships come into and out of the canal at Eastham Locks around high tide. This makes their passage through the locks much quicker as the levels are almost the same, and means that the channel approaching the locks is at maximum depth.

Ships going down the canal will almost always leave in the two hours before high tide, and ships coming up will arrive in the two hours after high tide.

This means that the ships are going in the opposite direction to the tidal flow in the Mersey channel, which makes them more manouevrable and easier to steer (they have to have more power on so there is more water flowing past the rudder).

 

Roughly, it takes 7 hours to travel the full length of the canal. So you would expect to see a ship leaving Manchester about 7 to 9 hours before a high tide.

The next high tide in Liverpool is 01:36, which is 8 hours away.

 

It's only a rough calculation but it usually holds.

Of course, the time of the high tides moves with the phases of the moon but roughly it's an hour later each day.

 

 

[montyburns56]

I can't believe that they have replaced the rails on Weaste Branch. Are they worn from birds sitting on them?

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

I can't believe that they have replaced the rails on Weaste Branch. Are they worn from birds sitting on them?

I tend to agree with your logic!

 

But here are some rails being moved...

 

... and here is the stack of old rails:

 

And the very fresh orange rust on the foot of the rail looks like it's new:

 

[Sandhole]

5 hours ago, woodenhead said:

Just returned from a walk at Worsley Woods on the old loop line from Patricroft to Bolton Great Moor Street.

 

What has that to do with the Ship Canal - well I have to cross it to get to the woods and the canal aqueduct, the low level swing bridge and the new lifting bridge are all currently in the open state for the Canal as a ship is on it's way one direction or the other - I saw the ship in the distance but as it was viewed end on I don't know the direction of travel.

OH Worsley Woods.
My family lived in Worsley until 1968.
My 'name' comes from the washery the Bridgewater Colliery system passed through on the way from Nanney Lane sidings towards Walkden. That line started my love of industrial railways.
Well, NSR 0-6-2's do that sort of thing to a boy.
I played in Worsley Woods a lot.
Chris.

[Mol_PMB]

For those interested in the railways at the west end of the canal, I have scanned a map in the Port of Manchester Official Sailing List & Shipping Guide number 706 of July 1958.
It shows the lower reaches of the canal around Eastham, Ellesmere Port and Stanlow, including the different firms present at the time, the MSC Railway lines and the berths on the canal.

If you have bought a Dapol 'Lobitos' tank wagon, you can see where it would have been filled.

Note that this map was printed before the MSC Railway was extended westwards beyond the Bowaters paper mills to serve the tank farms near Eastham.

 

Apart from the Merseyrail services to Liverpool and a skeleton Northern service to Helsby, there's very little railway activity here these days.

[Marshall5]

The Ellesmere Port system used the larger 0-6-0 Sentinels as seen here at the Ellesmere Port workshops and with one of the ex GWR 'Toads' used by the engineers.

Ray.

[PenrithBeacon]

There is some colour and b&w footage of the railways in Trafford Park in B&R video 98 and the steam engines pre-preservation look black to me. Unfortunately the only shot of a Hunslet diesel is in b&w.

 

[Mol_PMB]

A question for those of you who remember the canal in the 1960s (or 1970s):

What was the water quality like? Was it horrendously polluted like the Torrey Canyon had just sunk at Irwell Park? Or not so bad?

These days the canal looks pretty clean and has a thriving population of birds. Not just gulls, but Cormorants, Oystercatchers, Lapwings, Herons, Kingfishers, Grebes, Swans, Geese, Moorhens and a dozen species of duck.

 

In my model of the canal bank between Barton and Irlam, should I have a filthy toxic slick of water with at best a floating pigeon carcass, or at the other extreme a perching Kingfisher and a nesting pair of Great Crested Grebes? (seen below at Irlam locks last year) Or would it be somewhere in between with a just few hardy gulls?

 

I ask because I've just found a range of 7mm scale birds!

 

[Michael Edge]

I never remember the canal looking very polluted - it was certainly a lot cleaner than the Mersey at Runcorn in the 50s and early 60s. I never went swimming in the ship canal though, unlike the "hot springs" on the remaining bit of the St Helens canal at Ravenhead (the glassworks used the canal as cooling water and sprayed the hot water back) , or parts of the Leeds-Liverpool canal.......

[Mol_PMB]

Thanks Michael, that's helpful (and amusing!)

1950s/60s photos of the water in Manchester/Salford Docks look pretty grim and it seems that people who fell in often didn't survive. But I was thinking that the continuous flow of the Irwell must have made the main part of the canal somewhat cleaner.

This is typical of 9 Dock, which was of course a dead end:

This doesn't look too bad at Latchford but there's a bit of a black 'tidemark' on the far bank:

 

[APOLLO]

10 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

I never remember the canal looking very polluted - it was certainly a lot cleaner than the Mersey at Runcorn in the 50s and early 60s. I never went swimming in the ship canal though, unlike the "hot springs" on the remaining bit of the St Helens canal at Ravenhead (the glassworks used the canal as cooling water and sprayed the hot water back) , or parts of the Leeds-Liverpool canal.......

 

Didn't a St Helens pet shop tip into the hot canal loads of tropical fish that subsequently bred ? - Rumours of Piranha's at the time !!!!!

 

Brit15