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How much OO gauge can I fit into 12x8?


EddScott

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I previously had a loft layout with around 20ft by 9ft to play with. Having moved to a bigger house which does have a loft conversion I'm weighing up where to put an OO guage layout.  The loft is currently ear marked for my eldest but this may change! It's also a bit of an odd shape up there with the stairs and the chimney so doesn't lend itself too well to a round the walls plan - I might try a few sketches up there and post on here if any of them look workable.

 

I don't really fancy going outside to a shed. Not that shed layouts aren't for me but I have children so would prefer to be close at hand.  This really only leaves the garage into which I can fit a layout 12ft by 8ft.  Naturally this reduces my options compared to the last effort a great deal and I'm conscious of not creating a "set" looking layout.

 

Things I would like (Its modern image) :-

 

A TMD

A Station

Just down the road from me there is a cheese factory with a railway line running alongside - always thought it would be cool if the factory was rail-served.

2 lines running round.

I'm going to be limited by train length - a 60 with 6 TEAs or 66 with 7 HHAs is probably my limit (I measured them yesterday)

 

My intitial thoughts are to have the TMD on an upper level taking up one side of the 8ft - this would hide the tight-ish curves.

 

If I have the station coming out from under the TMD (some scenic break of tunnels of a flyover) then it could give the appearance of being longer than it actually is.

 

If the TMD and station take care of one side of 8ft and one side of the 12ft - what do I put on the other? With space being at a premium, I'm not sure if I could fit in a rail served factory as there wouldn't be enough room.  I could possibly have some scened exchange sidings hiding the fact they are actually a fiddle yard.

 

At a push, if I can fit something a little more interesting in on the other side, I might be able to fit in a lower level fiddle yard but as yet I can'y picture where the up and down ramps would go. 

 

I ran the old layout on an NCE powercab but swapped it for a Roco Multimaus Pro (mostly for the trimmed down RR&Co rocomotion) tbh, I think I preferred the powercab so might change back.

 

Hopefully, I'll get some trial sketches shortly.

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Take a quick look at my Virney Junction thread. Don't worry too much about the spiel, there are a number of images of my garage layout attempts (albeit mostly Templot plans). The initial one was a roundy, the current one is end to end. The garage is a shade over 17ft long and 8ft wide. The baseboard widths are around 2ft generally speaking. I've tried to keep radii quite generous as well for appearance reasons.

 

Part way through the progression from one to the other I considered a split level layout but decided that even with that space there wasn't really room to get one layer above another and maintain fairly easy grades and room underneath to re-rail an errant train/vehicle.

 

Hope that helps for starters.

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12' x 8' is OK in OO.

 

My favourite plan for that space has a terminus at high level leading down to a continuous double-track loop and a return with a few loops hidden below the terminus. The TMD could fit into a corner (above the loop) or alongside the main line.

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So this is my initial idea. A TMD and some sidings with the through lines underneath. Station on the left with something on the infield and again something of interest on the right.

 

I've made the line going tp the TMD dual so rakes can be made or broken. Only issue there would be the incline would need to be level or the wagons will roll away :)

 

I'll move the TMD to the infield probably on the station side but won't be able to fit train making there. And as mentioned have an incline to a terminus on the 2nd level.

 

I know it's rough but it's really just to get a feel of how much space I have to work with. I've thought about switching to N but it's not really my thing.

gallery_1222_855_16960.jpg

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Hello Ed

 

I see you have your design.  Some pictures here of my second big layout in a room 8 x 11 ft.  You might be interested in the construction techniques.  The first layout was in a loft a above the garage but the new house had lots of prefabricated roof trusses and was no place for a railway - so the spare bedroom it had to be.  I guess I should have rehung the door to open outwards - hindsight is great.

 

Good luck

 

Ray

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I replied to a similar question in this forum earlier today.  The question was ‘Thoughts please – do I need a fiddle yard?’ from Martyn Pearson.  I included a track plan & description of my 8’6” x 7’6” 00 gauge DCC layout ‘Crewlisle’ on three interconnected levels.  It is comment number 16.  Hopefully it will give you some useful ideas. 

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My layout is 12 x 6 in an inverted figure of 8, search for 'big jims roundy roundy layout' thread to get an idea of what ive done so far

 

I currently have a large tmd/yard area and through station on one level on one side of the layout as well as a small servicing shed and oil terminal (but these may change place yet!), the other side has a p-way type yard between the double track inclines between the levels

 

It does have a few tight curves but they are mostly hidden below the high level area and you will have an extra 2ft to play with as well

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Thank you all for the comments.

 

Crewlisle - your design certainly shows how to make best use of the space available.

 

I've progressed a little having looked at terminus stations and looking online at the idea of having an island in the layout rather than "just" round the walls.

 

Obviously again, this is very rough. I like the idea of giving the passenger trains somewhere to go. From station A to B via once round the park as it were.

 

Ideally, I'd like to add some curves here and there to take away the "set" feel but not sure how to get nice S shapes out of trkcad yet. 

 

One thing I was wondering - if I pursued a terminus station, would I need two feeding lines or would one suffice? One off the main loops to serve the island and one to the raised terminus.

 

The line for the TMD would be at same level as the raised terminus and incline on scene down the right hand side.

 

The sidings on the left could either be storage or a scened industry of some sort. Maybe the storage lines in the TMD hold the wagons required for the industry - although they'd have to cross the main lines to do so.

gallery_1222_855_12872.jpg

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I am a big advocate for central peninsulas in a layout plan. But not really practical with an 8' width (in OO anyway). Really needs 10'+.

 

Because you are a diesel-era modeller, you can use some tight radius curves in hidden parts of the layout and get a lot in to a conventional round-the-walls design.

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The old Peco 60 Plans for small layouts etc series have some very good plans.  The computer generated plans have a tendency to look very toylike whereas using a pen and paper you can get some nice smooth transition curves which replicate what you can achieve with flexi track.   If you model modern image then single track approaches to terminus' are common, Weymouth is double track with a single track pinch point just off the platform end before splitting into 3 platform roads. Modern practice avoids diamond crossings and slips where ever possible.  Singloe lead junctions with a crossover the divergence point and then a splitting into Up and Down lines again is the modern way    Also the track will be rationalised unless it is a new station like Fort William, so lots of former goods yard used as car parks, full of lovely modern image cars, if you can find any in 1:76.  

 

 Always consider how the layout will look and from what angles you will view it Having the straight track at and angle to the baseboard edge makes it more interesting as you can get a head on view of the trains.. Curved platforms look good.   , A high track level in relation to your eye line works well for me, so consider whether you will operate sitting down, 60" is great standing up but you will  need a bar stool of you want to sit down!  Also remember an 8X12 shed is 7' 6" X 11' 6" inside.   Aisles tend to get encroached on by switch panels and we get fatter so allow room for operators and friends. 

 

Finally where the door is fundamental, Lifting or lift out sections will be challenging so I would  consider a door in a corner and a high baseboard, That way you can get in the shed before ducking under.

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S curves in Xtrkcad - for, say, a right-left-right curve, do the first part of the curve from one end of the gap using "create curved point from endpoint" so it looks roughly the way you want.  Then do the last part the same way, from the other end.  Then using "join two tracks", click one end of the gap and shift-and-hold-click the other, you will find you can play about a bit with the mouse / glidepad to affect the way it fills the remaining gap for you.  If it can't find a solution, it should be fairly obvious (!) whether you need to ease or tighten your first two curves.

 

Or put a tiny bit of straight at an appropriate angle in the middle of a gap and join each end of it in turn to the ends of the gap, again using "join two tracks".

 

I find the operating well space a good place to experiment ......

 

Good luck!!

 

Chris

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I've had a play with anyrail as its ability to produce curves is much better than Xtrkcad.  It's a fair bit different so it's a bit of a learning curve!

 

The layout size is the workable room I have for the garage. The heating system is on one wall which may well be built into it's own little cubby space - the intention is to convert the garage into a proper room before the layout construction begins. Gives me time to consider my options.

 

If I continue down the road of OO do you think I could get away with using R2 and R3 Peco settrack curves? The only steam engine I have is Tornado which I don't run particularly long just the support coach and 3 passenger coaches (short rakes don't look out of place behind a steam engine compared to a 66 with only 3 or 4 HHAs!)

 

I've also come arcoss multi level layouts which, if it will fit, would improve the amount of scenic space I have to play with. A helix would probably take up too much room but I've seen one layout which has the trains running on the inside of the layout so they are visible. I've looked into making it fit using Cad but again it's all a bit tight.

 

I could go with a U shape and have one side a fiddle and the other side scened and have a terminus station with a TMD or just a TMD - I prefer industrial workings than passenger. However, I like to have trains rolling round as I'm working an industry or TMD.

 

All the thinking is leading to wonder whether I should consider moving to N. I don't have lots of OO that would go to waste - just the ones I won't part with. With N I could go multi-level and fit in all the things I'd want from a layout. I could go with a U shape layout with a helix on each end giving me two levels of scened area to play with - I could even have a fiddle yard that could be scened. Three things that stop me here are - is it too small and fiddly? Will it cost more? Will a big N gauge be too big a project to complete?

 

So, stick with roundy round and be compromised on realism, train length and operational interest, go for end to end which might not be as satisfying for me or switch to N and risk biting off more than I can chew.  

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Personally I'd stay with 00 and compromise on train lengths. I have been down the N gauge route and it didn't "do it" for me.

 

I would stay with a double track roundy but keep it simple until I really know what I want and be prepared to take it all up and start again. I wouldn't use settrack, but the largest radii I could, partly because of the wide track spacing needed for settrack. I have no experience of helices, but I suspect that a two-level looped eight would be easier to build and more fun.

 

Anyway, you can spend your life pontificating (the stage I am at again), or make a start, build something simple and play trains-it's fun.

 

Ed

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12' x 8' in N is quite big. Among other things, you could fit that peninsula down the centre of the room and you really would  not have need for multiple levels. The main thing would be keeping it simple enough for one person.

 

But you can achieve what you want in OO without it being too train set like. I will try and scan a sketch later (scanner playing up) and PM you.

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With all (!) that space available, I wouldn't want to use set-track curves out in the open, but would happily use them to get round hidden 90 degree bends in the corners

(not least because I wouldn't trust myself to get a smooth small radius curve with flexitrack).

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Hi Eddscot

Here's what I am working on:-

post-7902-0-21673100-1438293722_thumb.png

It's double track, almost a full length station with exchange sidings, with a duck under arrangment on the right and a segregated fiddle yard on the bottom.   Radii are 3rd rad in the top right and 2nd in the bottom left which are hidden.  No gradients except the branch that I've yet to build.

I tried looking at helixes but space (minimum 3rd rad) makes it impractical unless the end of the branch was to rise in height through a helix and run along the bottom from right to left.

Hope this helps,

Bryant

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Ed - has a layout really fallen through someone's ceiling?  Yikes!

 

Whoever did my loft conversion did a fairly proper job of it. The floor is reinforced and it has a staircase. However, the staircase comes in just off centre to the room and the chimney breast is still in place albeit plastered up etc. Not sure why it wasn't removed - probably keeping the roof up! I could get a layout of some sort up there but it doesn't really fit the bill - other that having a bit more room to play with.  So, the garage it is.

 

B McG - thats another fine use of the space available. Where will the branch line go? over the fiddle? How will you access the fiddle in emergencies? Only asking as I'm considering either a same layout fiddle or if I can work out how, a lower fiddle.

 

I visited a local-ish (only 2 hours away) model railway shop and I spent a long time looking at the N gauge offerings and it just doesn't give me the same buzz as OO.  Shame as they are fine little things but it's what suits each taste I guess.

 

As others have found, there isn't really enough space for a helix or two, I have considered having a single line going down at the top of the layout to a fiddle and coming back up at the lower end with the inclines being on either side of the longer sides of the layout. Although certainly do-able it introduces alot more in terms of track-work, complexity and baseboard construction. Not that I mind all that but I'm conscious of not starting something that takes an eternity for me to complete and risk losing interest.

 

So, my current thinking is to have a scened fiddle albiet only a few lines doubling as scened exchange sidings. I'm more interested in industry workings than stations so I'm thinking of having a short-ish station doing the "cheat" of having hidden tight curves under a bridge coming into a short station (not explained it well but should get the idea!) and if there's enough room something industrial that will fit into a small area. It will probably look on paper quite trainset like but it should reduce overall build time and I can work on removing that set feel with some decent scenery.

 

First stop is get the garage sorted so time to find a decent builder :)

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If you're not into stations, don't waste space on having one. The vast majority of railway doesn't have adjacent platforms after all. You can still use passenger stock, it just doesn't need to stop anywhere. And then you can use the space for the things you find more interesting.

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