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Kernow Model Rail Centre - Bulleid Diesel


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I don't want to hit the bogies with a chisel so it looks like I am going to have to interrupt Kernow's packing by ringing them to find out. The instructions are not clear to me.

 

I have run in my Bulleid diesel for 15 minutes and it runs very well. The other picture shows it attached to a rake of crimson and cream Southern region coaches at our model layout at the barn in Godlingston Manor.

 

 

Here you go fella, not too hard to do  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101705-kernow-model-rail-centre-bulleid-diesel/page-11&do=findComment&comment=2947074

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My 10201 arrived this morning. After a suitable running in session on the rolling road, I fitted a Lenz Silver+ 21-pin decoder, which works beautifully, although forwards seems to be the non-radiator end. I know I can change this by adding 1 to whatever value is in CV29, but has anyone else noted this on their Bulleid diesels when DCC fitted?

Anyway, I posed 10201 with my ancient MTK 10203. 10203 will never run on DCC with its current Mainline 'Peak' chassis! I didn't do too bad a job with the MTK kit, but it does show up as being a little oversized when compared to the Kernow model. 10201 is shown here straight out of the box - I'll change the headcodes later. For running qualities there is absolutely no comparison - a Rolls Royce compared to a lawn mower! :D

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Received my 10202 yesterday and a lovely model it is too. I also have a fascination for the prototype diesels and gas turbines and have bought kits or made up versions of the Ivatts, Bulleids and WR gas turbines, from Silver Fox. My Silver Fox 10201 dates from 2001 and has received a replacement chassis about 5 years ago.

 

The Kernow Bulleid runs very smoothly and I'm fascinated with the design of the bogie, that has the 3 axle driven wheels in a sub frame, which can turn slightly and raise or lower on inclines, while the bogie frame stays level. This allows the bogie frames to be close to the underbody, particularly under the cabs, much closer than Bachmann have achieved with the 40/44/45/46. 

 

I have found that both of the centre axles in the 3 axle drive, have one pick up that is not in contact with one wheel, which is mirrored on the other bogie. The pick up is present, but is flat close to the side frames on both bogies. Has anyone else got this, wanted to check as it's present on both bogies, with the same wheel.

 

Yesterday I investigated the two wiper pick ups that weren't in contact with one wheel on each of the two centre driving wheel sets, as I posted above. Having taken off the cover plate and dropped the centre axle, I found that the wiper in question was caught, rather than just needing to be extended. The wipers for the centre wheels go over a projection in the gear case moulding, which extends outwards where the axle slots are, to accommodate the bearings. The blade was caught at the top of this projection, and after freeing, would catch again if the axle was pushed in on that side. This was also the problem with one wiper on the other centre axle. To rectify I had to push the wiper slightly upwards, using bent nose long modelling pliers, so that they were clear of the axle bearing projections. There is a lot of side to side play on the centre drive axle, and with only one wiper pick up working, the axles were pushed to one side. Whether this might cause problems over points or crossovers, I can't say, but it might be problematic to have one wheelset which wants to be off centre.

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... bogie design is quite novel. They have not copied any existing RTR system out there. The powered wheel train can pitch up and down independently to the bogie sides. I suspect this is done to give correct clearance between the bogie top and lower sides. Maybe a Bachmann 40 sits a tad tall, maybe a real 40 has body pitched higher compare to the bogies, certainly novel for sure...

 Now that's an interesting advance, as a method for eliminating one of the problems in presenting accurate external appearance, while allowing a model to negotiate gradient transitions that can be expected on a set track layout.

 

A couple of questions if I may.

 

What is the cosmetic exterior bogie frame attached to?

 

Is it simply nudged by contact with the interior functional frame to pivot on curves?

 

 

Yesterday I investigated the two wiper pick ups that weren't in contact with one wheel on each of the two centre driving wheel sets, as I posted above. Having taken off the cover plate and dropped the centre axle, I found that the wiper in question was caught, rather than just needing to be extended. The wipers for the centre wheels go over a projection in the gear case moulding, which extends outwards where the axle slots are, to accommodate the bearings. The blade was caught at the top of this projection, and after freeing, would catch again if the axle was pushed in on that side. This was also the problem with one wiper on the other centre axle. To rectify I had to push the wiper slightly upwards, using bent nose long modelling pliers, so that they were clear of the axle bearing projections. There is a lot of side to side play on the centre drive axle, and with only one wiper pick up working, the axles were pushed to one side. Whether this might cause problems over points or crossovers, I can't say, but it might be problematic to have one wheelset which wants to be off centre.

 I would want symmetrical action as much to keep the gear faces in maximum overlap, as for reliability when running through pointwork.

 

Several experiments suggest themselves.

 

Leave the wiper action off entirely, and allow the wheelset to self centre by its coning, see how she runs.

 

Reshape the wipers to bear on the flange tops.

 

Solder in a new wiper to replace the one taken out of contact and provide symmetrical centering.

 

The latter the one I would be most inclined toward if there is space enough.

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 Now that's an interesting advance, as a method for eliminating one of the problems in presenting accurate external appearance, while allowing a model to negotiate gradient transitions that can be expected on a set track layout.

 

A couple of questions if I may.

 

What is the cosmetic exterior bogie frame attached to?

 

Is it simply nudged by contact with the interior functional frame to pivot on curves?

 

 

 I would want symmetrical action as much to keep the gear faces in maximum overlap, as for reliability when running through pointwork.

 

Several experiments suggest themselves.

 

Leave the wiper action off entirely, and allow the wheelset to self centre by its coning, see how she runs.

 

Reshape the wipers to bear on the flange tops.

 

Solder in a new wiper to replace the one taken out of contact and provide symmetrical centering.

 

The latter the one I would be most inclined toward if there is space enough.

 

I reshapped the two affected wipers, by creating a bigger gap between them and the bearing projection. They still play on the upper part of the wheel. All other wipers seem to be ok so can only suggest the problem is some roughness in the plastic mould of the bearing projection on those two positions, or the contact wipers being originally set up too close. It might be possible to file that top surface smooth if you can get the whole assembly out, but not worth doing if a slight adjustment to the contact wipers solves the problem. Both affected wheels are now centred.

Edited by rembrow
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Just had an email from Kernow asking for payment for 10203. Gave them a ring to confirm payment and took the opportunity to switch from green to black, they look so much more impressive in black and, in my opinion, the green doesn't sit so well on it. 

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Just had an email from Kernow asking for payment for 10203. Gave them a ring to confirm payment and took the opportunity to switch from green to black, they look so much more impressive in black and, in my opinion, the green doesn't sit so well on it. 

 

Everyone with 10203 on order should have received the same email as it was sent out by the bulk setting according to its own content.

 

A quick check with my Kernow and bank accounts confirms that 10203 is already paid for and that as per the wording of the email I don't need to do anything except wait.  Mine will be the green version simply because.  I wasn't going to have one at all but all the positive feedback suggests I might regret it later if I passed them by.  

 

 

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Spoken to KMRC, Ordered and paid for my green K2704 (10203).

Must admit the black and silver models look really nice but as a 1960s BR(LM) modeller it has to be green for me. 

 

 

Well done Kernow for delivering some pretty exceptional models.

If I were a gambling man I would put some money on a "Kerosene Castle" being announced later this year and I hope it is the later of the two !!!!

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My 10201 arrived this morning. After a suitable running in session on the rolling road, I fitted a Lenz Silver+ 21-pin decoder, which works beautifully, although forwards seems to be the non-radiator end. I know I can change this by adding 1 to whatever value is in CV29, but has anyone else noted this on their Bulleid diesels when DCC fitted?

At last I have had a chance to try my 10201 with an ancient Bachmann decoder. It runs forward as it should, radiator end first.

 

I did notice that the body fits on easily either way but if it is on the wrong way round, it’s obvious that the engine room windows don’t show the engine. From your fine pictures it seems that isn’t the problem. Could it be that the decoder you fitted has been used before and has had its direction reversed?

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At last I have had a chance to try my 10201 with an ancient Bachmann decoder. It runs forward as it should, radiator end first.

 

I did notice that the body fits on easily either way but if it is on the wrong way round, it’s obvious that the engine room windows don’t show the engine. From your fine pictures it seems that isn’t the problem. Could it be that the decoder you fitted has been used before and has had its direction reversed?

 

Thanks for that. Yes. I'll check CV29, as it is quite possible I have used the decoder before then fitted sound to a loco - that has happened a few times over the last couple of years.

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I have redone the board on one corner of the layout which had suffered both water damage in storage and saging. There was a good cm drop between the middle of the board and where it joined the two adjacent boards. Causing mini apexes in the track at those places. Many locos coped however but certain classes did not. Those will big bogies like the Bullied (class 40 and 45), Adams radials (both makes), DJM 71, Castle and Merchant Navies.

The corrections have largely worked, all above classes cope fine except the 71 which is stiff in nature.

 

The Bullied diesel with its somewhat complex bogie design romps around the layout with ease (expect for one remaining apex caused by water damage which will be sorted by relaying the track there) and is proving a capable powerful performer.

I am impressed enough that I will fit sound in 10203.

 

I will advise all that you need to be careful will derailments on this design. As the wheels move freely to the bogie frames, it is possible that the wheels clear the base of the bogie leaving sandpipes exposed to being ripped off. Not happened yet but be careful to avoid derailments and when putting the model on the track.

Edited by JSpencer
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Excellent video. I have the DCC sound-equipped version that came straight from Kernow with legomanbiffo sound already installed. Wonderful model. Function instructions not great but I managed to get the front cab lights to work using F19 and the rear ones to work using F20. Trouble is that once the loco moves forward the front cab lights extinguish themselves, but same thing doesn't happen with rear ones when running backwards. I notice that in your video the front ones stay illuminated. I wonder if anyone can advise me what I may be doing wrong or have I just got a 'dud'.

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If you run 10203 and a class 40 together, there may not be much room left in your platforms for the rest of the train! ;)   :jester:

I happened to put 10202 down beside a Class 68 and noticed something odd. Sure enough, 10202 on its sixteen wheels is 63' 9" long but the Class 68 on its eight wheels is 67' 3". It confirms my impression when the respective models arrived that the Bulleid was stubbier than I expected and the 68 a bigger machine than I expected.

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Slight issue with my 10202. Tested it on analogue, perfect. Took the body off, fitted the decoder, ran perfectly. Refitted body and put it back on the track and it behaved like an analogue again. Buzzing on the track and reacting to address 0000. Took body off, everything fine again DCC-wise. Having tested it, it appears that tightening the body pulls down on the PCB and shorts something out making it all analogue. 

 

So I will investigate further and see if there is an easy fix, or just not screw down the body. Hmm...

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Having seen and heard the originals, the idling and slow moving sounds are great.

 

However, the sound of 10202 pulling a long Pullman train up a gradient does not in any way convey the 'roar' of the prototype.

 

There must be original recordings of production EE Type 4s working hard around, and they were certainly more impressive than this sound project.

 

I've always been a bit sceptical about digital sound - and this example does not convince me that I should change my opinion.

 

Sorry,

John Isherwood.

 

PS. - Try some of the early class 40s at http://www.brdw.co.uk/sounds.html .

Edited by cctransuk
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Hi all

 

My 10202 arrived here in NZ last week, runs really well.

 

I decided to change the head code discs to the Bournemouth Belle pattern. Most of the discs came off with a knife blade and gentle twisting. One under a window didn’t, and thenthe disc came off it’s mounting spigot. when I took the body off it was apparent that the window glue had run down the body and glued the disc in place. Pushing for the inside didn’t work and so With the short clear rod for the light removed I used a taper reamer to remove the remains of the mount and cleaned up the square key to fit the disc. I did not notice at first that the discs have different mounts depending on whether they are for the sides or centre. Once I had worked that out they went on easily. Also the black discs are moulded in a grey plastic so when I cut them from the spruce I used a permanent marker to paint the visible grey spot.

 

On putting the body back on the loco wouldn’t move. Body off again and it was okay. I traced that to one of the wires from the bogie to the circuit board, it had become trapped and the insulation cut, probably under the screw mount or between the bogie and chassis, so the wire was touching the chasssis when the screw was tightened. In the end I cut and lengthened the wire and it all fitted in. When reassembling I made sure the wires were away from the screw mounts this time......

 

So it’s all working, I suspect I may never finish my silver fox kit now.

 

Roger

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I would be very grateful if anybody who has one could measure the distance between the insides of the bogie frames please.

 

This would be very useful in deciding the feasibility of EM and P4 conversions. 

 

Many thanks.

 

John

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I would be very grateful if anybody who has one could measure the distance between the insides of the bogie frames please.

 

This would be very useful in deciding the feasibility of EM and P4 conversions.

 

Many thanks.

 

John

There is plenty of real estate, a good 2 or 3 mm each side. However whether it will be good for P4 EM depends on how sharp your curves are. The powered wheels are fixed inside a second bogie that floats freely inside the main bogie, the non powered front pony is fixed to the outer bogie, the axle can move side to side only within it.

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There is plenty of real estate, a good 2 or 3 mm each side. However whether it will be good for P4 EM depends on how sharp your curves are. The powered wheels are fixed inside a second bogie that floats freely inside the main bogie, the non powered front pony is fixed to the outer bogie, the axle can move side to side only within it.

Many thanks. The minimum radius is around 1.8m (6ft) up to 2.5m (8ft) with all the pointwork B9s and C10s. 

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