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Kernow Model Rail Centre - Bulleid Diesel


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Yep, easier to live with. If ever there was a case for weathering …

 

If mine comes with a Dayglo yellow roof, it'll have a close encounter with some grot-coloured paint as soon as it's out of the packing !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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Update posted on Facebook yesterday (presumably Cambridge Analytica have a model railway).

 

I don’t think I have seen the green 10203 linked on here yet, I may have missed it. I had forgotten about the banana coloured roof.

 

It looks very nice though. Big photo on the website or on their Facebook page - sorry it won't link, and I suspect I'm not usppoed to link it either.

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/33039/K2704_Dapol_Bulleid_1CoCo1_Diesel_Locomotive_number_10203

 

 

 

Unless the ravages of time are playing havoc with my memory, I cannot recall having seen 10203 with such a vivid roof livery. My memory is of a much softer / lighter hade of pale primrose, albeit usually pretty dirty or alternatively the more standard grey. Colour photographs of the loco in service are not that common and do not seem to give a definite answer either way.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

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Unless the ravages of time are playing havoc with my memory, I cannot recall having seen 10203 with such a vivid roof livery. My memory is of a much softer / lighter hade of pale primrose, albeit usually pretty dirty or alternatively the more standard grey. Colour photographs of the loco in service are not that common and do not seem to give a definite answer either way.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

 

I understand the roof will be the same colour as the lettering.

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Presumably the green and primrose livery was applied to these locos by Derby Works at the same time as the application to 10000/ 10001, around 1957. So I would have expected them to match or at least not be too far apart.

 

The Woodhead electrics started to receive green and primrose around this time, albeit at Gorton, so again some consistency might be expected.

 

John.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Unless the ravages of time are playing havoc with my memory, I cannot recall having seen 10203 with such a vivid roof livery. My memory is of a much softer / lighter hade of pale primrose, albeit usually pretty dirty or alternatively the more standard grey. Colour photographs of the loco in service are not that common and do not seem to give a definite answer either way.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

 I think you are right

 

http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/bull_1coco1_01.html

"When built all three were painted in black livery with silver lining, including silver frames, whilst the centre of the roof section was matt black. After the locos were allocated to the LMR, Derby Works outshopped all three in BR standard locomotive green and replaced the waist height silver band with orange and black lining. The roof however was painted a really practical primrose yellow! This of course soon ended up a dirty black colour. Near the end of their working lives they sported small yellow warning panels at each end."

 

I read somewhere, but I can not rememebr where that someone was being bloody minded over the roof colour, but it was repainted grey the next ime they were in the paint shops.

 

Jamie

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Latest update from Kernow from their website:

 

"Models have left the factory in China! The models have arrived in Hong Kong and are awaiting shipping. They are booked on board the Al Dahna which is scheduled to depart Hong Kong on 25th May and dock in Southampton on 21st June 2018. The pre-order special offer has therefore ended. You can still place a pre-order but it will be at the full price. If you had a pre-order at the original price but did not pay in full it is now too late to get your model at the original price.

It will of course take up to a week for the models to arrive in Cornwall following docking in Southampton, as HM Customs will inspect the goods as is their standard practice. It is likely to be July 2018 when we get the orders sent out and this could take three or four weeks due to the volume of orders to be processed. The Sound versions will need fitting in our workshop and this can take a few weeks, again due to the volume of orders to be processed. We will of course process the orders as quickly as possible!"

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 I think you are right

 

http://www.semgonline.com/diesel/bull_1coco1_01.html

"When built all three were painted in black livery with silver lining, including silver frames, whilst the centre of the roof section was matt black. After the locos were allocated to the LMR, Derby Works outshopped all three in BR standard locomotive green and replaced the waist height silver band with orange and black lining. The roof however was painted a really practical primrose yellow! This of course soon ended up a dirty black colour. Near the end of their working lives they sported small yellow warning panels at each end."

 

I read somewhere, but I can not rememebr where that someone was being bloody minded over the roof colour, but it was repainted grey the next ime they were in the paint shops.

 

Jamie

 

The Wild Swan book on the LMS twins had a similar comment about the primrose roof, something to the effect that someone in authority said they didn't care about the colour, so the painters/ foreman doing the work chose primrose! 

 

As I suggested in #430, one might expect there to be consistency across the five locos.

 

John.

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The Wild Swan book on the LMS twins had a similar comment about the primrose roof, something to the effect that someone in authority said they didn't care about the colour, so the painters/ foreman doing the work chose primrose! 

 

As I suggested in #430, one might expect there to be consistency across the five locos.

 

John.

 

Thanks John, that must be where I read it. "Freddie Simpson's sense of humour' . The LMS Twins had their roofs painted grey in August 1957, and presumably also the Bullied diesels around then too.

 

Jamie

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  • 4 weeks later...

 In theory, a driver should remove discs and lamps on the rear/train facing part of the loco (i;e the part facing towards the train, not the part facing forwards of the train).

 

In practice, they often did not do this. So you could get away with 2 different headcode settings on each end for different trains (just don't leave all of them open as I doubt they did Royal Service).

 

Side tracking, only 10202 and 10203 ever pulled the Golden Arrow with special headboards.

My 10201 is fully run in now and accepted for regular service, I will certainly add sound at some point when I have some readies.

Well, I've come rather late with my comment to this post!

 

On the model, Kernow have provided "removable" or "placeable" headcode discs - their only option at 4mm/ft.  On the real locos, the headcodes were made up not of removeable discs per se, but of permanent discs one half of which was foldable on horizontal hinges.  From memory (photos would confirm) they showed black when the tops were folded down, and white when they were up.

 

The question of how the crew treated the rear of the loco when coupled to the train is of course another issue - and perhaps the true nature of the question originally asked.

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Well, I've come rather late with my comment to this post!

 

On the model, Kernow have provided "removable" or "placeable" headcode discs - their only option at 4mm/ft.  On the real locos, the headcodes were made up not of removeable discs per se, but of permanent discs one half of which was foldable on horizontal hinges.  From memory (photos would confirm) they showed black when the tops were folded down, and white when they were up.

 

The question of how the crew treated the rear of the loco when coupled to the train is of course another issue - and perhaps the true nature of the question originally asked.

 

I thought the discs could be folded both ways? Some photos seem to show this to be the case.

 

Edit: this for example (not my photo) https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8816/17205519399_81bec23edf_b.jpg

 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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I thought the discs could be folded both ways? Some photos seem to show this to be the case.

 

Edit: this for example (not my photo) https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8816/17205519399_81bec23edf_b.jpg

 

Roy

I know they can on classes 20, 24, 26, 31, 40 & 44, through personal experience handling them... couldn’t imagine the other classes being different.
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I thought the discs could be folded both ways? Some photos seem to show this to be the case.

 

Edit: this for example (not my photo) https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8816/17205519399_81bec23edf_b.jpg

 

Roy

 

I'm sure they can be folded both ways, so you could choose whether to show a light or not when closed.

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...Kernow have done a grand job in designing these bogies to both allow the body to sit at the correct height and yet cope with the unrealistic track extremes (sharper curves than reality, change of incline and decline sharper than reality) of most layouts. I'm amazed at how well mine handles the track despite having correct ride heights (the Bachmann 40 and 45 sit a tad high I feel).

 This feature of Kernow's design giving the exterior bogie frame some freedom relative to the bogie mechanism appears to be a real advance, getting around a problematic aspect of many longer UK prototypes, which other manufacturers have solved in different ways. (Summary, Bachmann, increase ride height of body above bogies for clearance; Heljan, distort body as required for clearance; Hornby, underscale wheelset diameter.)

 

What I have not seen so far is any diagram or photograph of how it is achieved, there doesn't appear to be anything downloadable from Kernow. It is the reliable recentering aspect after curves that particularly interests me. Unfortunately Kernow have yet to venture any subject for their models that interest me, so I am averse to forking over the dough just to satisfy curiousity...

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According to this weeks newsletter, the green and remaining black Bulleid diesels should be arriving at Southampton tomorrow- on the ship that is about to dock, not freewheeling that is. Hopefully my green 10203 will join the black 10202 I got before Christmas, in a few weeks time. Kernow have reminded us via the newsletter, that they have a large number of pre orders for these to go through and the despatch may take some five weeks after the batch gets to Kernow (that could take a week depending on Customs clearance). Here's hoping that Kernow will soon do another run of 10201 and 10202 in BR green with the end connecting doors.

Edited by rembrow
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not sure if this is the right place but i'll go for it anyway. I'm having running issues with my Bullied (and have from the start to be honest), it was running very intermittently, whether on straights or curves, tried it at my local model shop on their test track and it did the same, whether it was dc or dcc. so i sent it back to Kernow who simply said the wheels needed cleaning (simply not true), anyway they sent it back and have now had chance to try it on my layout (i have just laid down the track after pulling up the old layout).

 

On the first run round it was fine, introduced a second loco and it then started to run intermittently, picking up speed before slowing to a halt, then starting off again. I'm wondering if the stay live is pulling too much draw for my system (gaugemaster prodigy express). I say this because the other loco running round started to behave in the same away (Dapol B4).

 

I left it like this last night and will run more tests tonight.

 

what are peoples thoughts?

thanks

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On the first run round it was fine, introduced a second loco and it then started to run intermittently, picking up speed before slowing to a halt, then starting off again. I'm wondering if the stay live is pulling too much draw for my system (gaugemaster prodigy express). I say this because the other loco running round started to behave in the same away (Dapol B4).

 

 

A stay alive should not draw anything (it will charge up really quickly to max capacitance and stop there). Did it return to normal again after you took the B4 back off?

If yes that hints to a problem of supply (or the B4 - does that work well alone?). You can repeat with a second DCC loco.

 

If no, there may be some sort of intermittent short. A circuit component getting warm and gradually shorting before cooling down returning to normal. Next is to see if this is the DCC chip or the loco. For that you have to remove the DCC chip and place back the plug.

Test loco and chip apart (the latter by placing into another loco).

 

I'm not sure you really need a stay alive on this big loco (my class 40 on DCC sound runs perfectly fine without one - this being the latest Bachmann tooling using the un popular bearing pickups too), so you could try it without. If it is a bit jittery without the stay alive, that hints at a pick up issue or maybe a loose wire between one bogie and the PCB (which would halve the pickup area of the model).

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A stay alive should not draw anything (it will charge up really quickly to max capacitance and stop there). Did it return to normal again after you took the B4 back off?

If yes that hints to a problem of supply (or the B4 - does that work well alone?). You can repeat with a second DCC loco.

 

If no, there may be some sort of intermittent short. A circuit component getting warm and gradually shorting before cooling down returning to normal. Next is to see if this is the DCC chip or the loco. For that you have to remove the DCC chip and place back the plug.

Test loco and chip apart (the latter by placing into another loco).

 

I'm not sure you really need a stay alive on this big loco (my class 40 on DCC sound runs perfectly fine without one - this being the latest Bachmann tooling using the un popular bearing pickups too), so you could try it without. If it is a bit jittery without the stay alive, that hints at a pick up issue or maybe a loose wire between one bogie and the PCB (which would halve the pickup area of the model).

 

The B4 works fine on its own and with other loco's on track (class 57 and Hornby HST i'm testing with), I'd left my B4 running for well over an hour running in with various speeds/direction and then with wagons, it was only when adding the Bullied did things started to go wrong.

 

i do need to remove the dcc chip from the bullied and wire in my dc controller and give it a try. At the minute i have the track laid down with just one point of wiring on both the inner and outer loops, so i will have a play and see if i can see a problem.

 

As for the stay alive, i'm not sure why Kernow felt the need for one, i would rather get rid of it. The loco is all wheel pickup so should never stall on points as its a long loco.

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What make and type of decoder are you using in the Bulleid? And have the capacitors (ie interference suppressors) been removed from both locos?

 

As JSpencer says, with pickups on all wheels of both bogies, I cannot see any benefit at all from fitting a stay-alive capacitor to this model. 

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What make and type of decoder are you using in the Bulleid? And have the capacitors (ie interference suppressors) been removed from both locos?

 

As JSpencer says, with pickups on all wheels of both bogies, I cannot see any benefit at all from fitting a stay-alive capacitor to this model. 

i think its a cheap as chips dcc decoder, i will put a Bachmann one in tonight, i think the bigger test will be DC running

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i tried something else late last night, i ran the bullied with 3 pullmans (with lights), a mk3 coach and Bachmann brake van (these are weighty things) with my class 800 running on the outer loop. the bullied noticeable paused when running over any point work or cross overs, something it did not do when running on its own or with 6 or 7 wagons. 

 

I know the pullmans have an element of drag due to the light pickups.

 

Conclusions, i don't have any beyond i still think there is a power issue, the more "juice" required things start to get erratic. I'm starting to point fingers at the gaugemaster dcc system but with nothing to compare/test against i have no solid evidence.

Edited by jonnyuk
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Just had email notification that my 10203 is in the post for delivery tomorrow.  Very much looking forward to that, as I had in fact pre-ordered this on 30/12/2011.  It's been a long wait but I'm sure it'll be worthwhile, and I'm very pleased that Kenow have managed to honour the 2011 pre-order price of £139.99 despite all the recent increases in costs of Chinese-manufactured products.

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I visited the shop just an hour or so after the delivery was received and have collected my order in person. I might be the very first customer to receive their green 10203 but there’s no contest and no prize. The visit was planned but I have no control over their goods inwards. Looking forward to opening the box later!

 

As always I was greeted by name with a smile and my other “for collection” items were brought from the mail room promptly. Top service.

 

Edit to attach photo

 

post-3305-0-46567500-1530695388_thumb.jpeg

Edited by Gwiwer
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My BR green 10203 is also despatched. My order was 11 April 2011 and it bought back memories as I'd just returned to work after a heart attack. Seven years on am still fit and five years into retirement, which I'm really enjoying. Sometimes it's thought provoking to look back at what we were doing when we ordered our models.

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