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So what green? (class 71)


DJM Dave

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Hi everyone,

 

I'm just in the process of finishing the artwork for the class 71 but would like opinions on the following please..........

 

Given that there are various greens used on the real thing, i'd ideally like to colour match to either a Hornby or Bachmann model (whichever is best for that colour variation).

 

Can i ask for opinions regarding colours and who replicates them best in OO gauge, so i can colour match the 71 to those please?

 

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Dave

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.

 

An interesting, almost philosophical, point.

 

First, IF you are producing one particular numbered Class 71 in "green" or "green with (small) yellow panels" then irrespective of what Hornby or Bachmann produce then you should try to match that number Class 71's colour.   

 

Second, if you are looking for a "generic" Green for 1960's Southern Region diesels then apart from "just going your own way" with a colour match I would go with Hornby, but YOUR choice I would suggest is for accuracy , not standardisation, especially as Class 71s did seem to always have a slightly odd shade versus their rolling stock.

 

.

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Hi everyone,

 

I'm just in the process of finishing the artwork for the class 71 but would like opinions on the following please..........

 

Given that there are various greens used on the real thing, i'd ideally like to colour match to either a Hornby or Bachmann model (whichever is best for that colour variation).

 

Can i ask for opinions regarding colours and who replicates them best in OO gauge, so i can colour match the 71 to those please?

 

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Dave

 

I'd go with Hornby: I guess it's more likely to be hauling Hornby's coaching stock rather than Bachmann's (I'm assuming Hornby is reasonably consistent with their BR(SR) colours, but also because Bachmann's most recent Mk1s in BR(SR) green are, for me, far too dark. Other opinions are available).

 

Though, as everyone always points out, there was never just a single colour in a world of hand-mixed and variably weathered paints.

 

Paul

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Hi everyone,

 

I'm just in the process of finishing the artwork for the class 71 but would like opinions on the following please..........

 

Given that there are various greens used on the real thing, i'd ideally like to colour match to either a Hornby or Bachmann model (whichever is best for that colour variation).

 

Can i ask for opinions regarding colours and who replicates them best in OO gauge, so i can colour match the 71 to those please?

 

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Dave

 

You could be really cheeky and ask Hornby and Bachmann for the colour info  :jester:

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Wow, this should prove highly subjective.

 

The class used at least 2 different shades of green. I get a (very poor) general impression that they started as loco green, then went coach SR green then small yellow panels and loco green again.

 

However I would not consider myself an expert in the slightest sense of the term.

 

So they would be for me, Bachmann class 24 loco green and Hornby or Replica SR coach green.

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Seriously? 

Like Phil Gollin says, First things first, you should be matching it to the loco not what others do! 

Secondly, why match it to what the others do if its wrong? Someone else has pointed out that the newer Bachmann SR Green looks a little dark which I'd agree even though I was told by a rep that it was matched a BR colour swatch. But then again who says Hornby's is any better??

Surely doing some of your own research and making your own judgement would be better than copying others? You might end up with a better colour!

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Can i ask for opinions regarding colours and who replicates them best in OO gauge, so i can colour match the 71 to those please?

What a terrific idea.

 

The green colours used on models of BR southern stock seem to generate the greatest amount of "that doesn't look right" or "that doesn't match my existing stock" commentary.

 

While you can't please everyone, this approach might please a plurality.

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FWIW.

My notes from back in the day when they were an everyday locomotive.

As built, Southern green with pale grey window surrounds and small centrally mounted totem on the lower bodyside. Thin red stripe edged in white at waist height between the doors.

Locos repainted from about 1962 ish didn't have the stripe, and the totem was a moving feast. Small yellow panels of numerous shapes and sizes, (sorry, can't find my list of variations).

!968 onwards, green repaints got full yellow ends,

Blue repaints seem to get E numbers behind the doors and the coming and went sign under the central bodyside window.

As others have said, don't copy, you're not copying Hornby's tooling so why match their paint?

 

Mike.

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Hi Everyone,

 

As it's accepted that there was a considerable variation in livery across the prototype and this varied with time, how feasible would it be to have the same variation within your range?. In other words, if the prototypes weren't all the same colour why should you make all the versions of your model uniform?

 

It's probably too expensive but I thought I'd ask the question anyway.

 

 

Peter

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Wow, this should prove highly subjective.

 

The class used at least 2 different shades of green. I get a (very poor) general impression that they started as loco green, then went coach SR green then small yellow panels and loco green again.

 

However I would not consider myself an expert in the slightest sense of the term.

 

So they would be for me, Bachmann class 24 loco green and Hornby or Replica SR coach green.

 

They definitely weren't in BR loco green, although there were at least two shades of green used at different times, one of which was quite bright. They did use the coach green for at least one of the shades used, but as no one seems to be able to agree on what that was anyway, that doesn't really help much either! :D

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So which is the best match for BR(s) coach green, Hornby or Bachmann?
I'd have to say in all honesty;
Replica.  ;)
  Seriously, to my eyes the Replica BR(S) Mk1 coaches are the best match I've seen on an RTR coach.
HTH,
Bob.

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I expect howls of derision but on the Kernow website there's a colour picture of E5003. That looks good to me. There's even a rail blue loco behind it which looks as if the colour photograph has survived well. Why not try to match that? There's a picture of E5004 below but it looks as if the photograph's colour has faded towards blue.

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Like Phil Gollin says, First things first, you should be matching it to the loco not what others do! 

 

Secondly, why match it to what the others do if its wrong? Someone else has pointed out that the newer Bachmann SR Green looks a little dark which I'd agree even though I was told by a rep that it was matched a BR colour swatch. But then again who says Hornby's is any better??

 

Surely doing some of your own research and making your own judgement would be better than copying others? You might end up with a better colour!

If Dave produced the 71 in a shade of green that didn't match anything produced by anyone else, I bet the howls of outrage would echo to the furthest corners of the net.

 

Of course I am sure Dave wants to make the best 71 possible, including livery finish. However the practical truth is that Dave is only doing the loco and knows it will be running with other mfrs rolling stock. Trying to match an existing livery finish is a pragmatic choice since if people are happy with their Hornby/Bachmann's coach green then decorating the 71 to match is likely to please the greatest number of people.

 

I model the GWR in N gauge so I don't really have a stake in the issue. However I think that matching the closest existing finish is a smart move given that the 71 is being released as a stand-alone product. Also I think that canvassing opinion on what people actually want is always a good move. Would that Hornby and Bachmann did more of it. ;)

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If Dave produced the 71 in a shade of green that didn't match anything produced by anyone else, I bet the howls of outrage would echo to the furthest corners of the net.

 

Of course I am sure Dave wants to make the best 71 possible, including livery finish. However the practical truth is that Dave is only doing the loco and knows it will be running with other mfrs rolling stock. Trying to match an existing livery finish is a pragmatic choice since if people are happy with their Hornby/Bachmann's coach green then decorating the 71 to match is likely to please the greatest number of people.

 

I model the GWR in N gauge so I don't really have a stake in the issue. However I think that matching the closest existing finish is a smart move given that the 71 is being released as a stand-alone product. Also I think that canvassing opinion on what people actually want is always a good move. Would that Hornby and Bachmann did more of it. ;)

Fully agree.

 

if other manufacturers asked for potential buyers and those more in the know then we might not be deciding which one might be best to match as they would all be a much closer match to start with (in theory).

 

However we all tend ot see things in diffrent light.

 

I would opt that the Hornby shade is more to my liking.

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I always thought the old Lima mk1's had the best green. Say what you want about the model but the semi matt finish was great.

 

Edit: Out of interest what is preferable? A uniquely correct green model? Or uniformed "wrong" green models?

I'd like a unique correct one to repaint everything else too.

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If Dave produced the 71 in a shade of green that didn't match anything produced by anyone else, I bet the howls of outrage would echo to the furthest corners of the net.

 

Of course I am sure Dave wants to make the best 71 possible, including livery finish. However the practical truth is that Dave is only doing the loco and knows it will be running with other mfrs rolling stock. Trying to match an existing livery finish is a pragmatic choice since if people are happy with their Hornby/Bachmann's coach green then decorating the 71 to match is likely to please the greatest number of people.

 

I'd still much rather have a loco that was the right colour that matches the colour of the prototype than one that copies someone elses models.

I can't say that I've read of many people complaining that their green Hornby Maunsells or Mk1s don't match their Bachmann Bulleids or Mk1s??? And as others have already pointed out not ever coach or loco was exactly the same colour as the next. Add to this those that with weather their 71s then I don't really see what difference it will make.

 

If you really want a Hornby "green" 71 to match your Hornby green coaches then the best match will be a Hornby green 71 :scratchhead:  

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Based upon what?

 

Mike.

Based on Hornby already having all the relevant information on their own coaches colours. Don't get me wrong they could still muck that up just like anyone could, but they have a better starting point wouldn't you say??

 

 

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Dave you have opened the proverbial can of worms, no matter what you do someone will complain that that loco on this or that date was a different shade. I do agree with others that the Replica SR coach green looks 'right' to me.

 

The only way though may be to sell it undecorated then no one can complain.........coat and hat on and running for cover!

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The HAs were built at Doncaster, when new they were not painted in BR Loco Green, but were they painted in SR coach green? Or were they painted in the same multiple unit green that Doncaster applied to the Class AM2 units built for the GER lines?

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Originally they were the same colour as the SR EMUs at the time - generally described as 'malachite' but not really the same as Bulleid malachite. Vehicles such as the Wickham railcars and the AC Cars railbuses were the same colour. In fact the Wickham at Llangollen would be a good match. The NRM loco was spot on before they repainted it. Of course, if you use full size colours they will look wrong as the light reflection off a 1:76 item is very different from that off a 1:1 item. So, in the end you have to use what looks right to you. Unfortunately, what looks right to you won't look right to the next guy because we all see colours differently. Hate to think how many times this has been pointed out on RMweb and everywhere else but the debates still rage on. Good luck!

CHRIS LEIGH

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