wilsoh Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Hi all, I`ve just converted a smokey joe loco as per the article in Railway modeller of a couple of months ago. also scratch built a coal truck to go with it. The loco runs at suicidal speed and is difficult to get it to run slowly. Has anyone retro fitted another motor/drive and achieved reliable slow running? Regards Howard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 How old is the model? The later ones run considerably slower, top out at a scale 50mph and run well at shunting speeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnd Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 One way if your DCC is to fit a decoder that enables to alter the CV's. I did this with the Hornby 06 using a 3fct Bachmann decoder, it now runs at scale speeds including handle moving. One of the benefits of DCC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 The old smokey joe/ Desmond has a good top speed, Too fast for 2nd radius curves but good practice for aspiring Scalextric drivers. The worm wheel on my examples is very small and very coarse. A common 1960s Triang Polly/ Transcon/ Dock shunter gear wheel fits and a brass worm is available for the can motor which works better and gives smoother slow running without affecting top speed. The fine pitch single start worm to suit is only available to suit X04 armature shaft diameter. Romford worms. I think it is the 40 to 1 version fit the Polly gear wheel but they are bigger outside diameter and raising the motor slightly is a big task on the plastic Smoky Joe chassis. If you go to romford wheels with 1/8 axles then Romford 30 40 50 or 60 to 1 gears will fit if you file the chassis but again the motor needs to be raised at the worm end as the worm and worm wheel are both larger diameter. Doing this you can bush the axle holes with Romford bushes and extend the chassis life dramatically. I use Triang crank pins in Romford wheels, 0-6-0 /B12 at the front and longer Hall ones at the rear but it is a lot of work. I used a can motor from a computer disc drive which has a worm ready fitted which meshed but had to Araldite it in and solder new pick up wires. This was Ok but the plastic chassis wore, the valve gear was awful and the non see through wheels were more than I could stand. Currently I am trying to fit new tyres from some old 16MM plastic centred tender wheels to the non see through wheels plastic centres Maybe you should check out a new one? Have the model shop demonstrate it first in case it is the old version which has been in stock for 20 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercity125 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Like Big Herb says, the newer 0-4-0 models run smoother and at more realistic speeds. You could purchase a new one for around £27 and perform a simple body swop in minutes and hey presto - Smokey Joe will run smoothly............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 http://gn15.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9941&hilit=Hornby+0+4+0+re+gear The above article might be of some use.....? Another alternative [to DCC] is radio control? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 http://gn15.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9941&hilit=Hornby+0+4+0+re+gear The above article might be of some use.....? Another alternative [to DCC] is radio control? The layshaft idea is brilliant just as long as the body still fits! From the link it looks like a substantial flywheel could also be added between the motor and drop gears Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 http://gn15.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9941&hilit=Hornby+0+4+0+re+gear The above article might be of some use.....? Having finally got round to testing the one I bought on eBay, I think this might make it usable! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) A simple way to achieve this is to fit a good quality DCC decoder which can be 'tuned' on DCC to produce silky smooth running at appropriate speeds. The loco can then be operated on DCC or analogue and the decoder will control the power to the motor using the same criteria as if it were on DCC. i.e. Inertia, momentum, top speed and BEMF regulation will be used in either DCC or DC operations. If you can find space for a capacitor, a correctly chosen decoder (ie one which supports it) will be able to use a 'stay alive' capacitor to improve running over dirty or poorly laid track - quite useful for 0-4-0 locos. Kind regards, Paul Edited August 22, 2015 by pauliebanger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I know nothing about DCC, but assume a good quality DCC decoder would cost a bit, rather defeating the object of buying cheap locos on eBay. Surely it's then heading towards the cost of buying/building something decent. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I know nothing about DCC, but assume a good quality DCC decoder would cost a bit, rather defeating the object of buying cheap locos on eBay. Surely it's then heading towards the cost of buying/building something decent. Sorry, didn't notice the OP mentioning costs at any point. I suppose it depends on how you value your time. People who know nothing about DCC by definition will not appreciate the beneficial effects decoders can have even for analogue running. So I offered it as free advice from someone who knows and has done it successfully. Not my role to decide if cost v convenience is financially attractive or not for the OP. But it's not possible to make a fully informed decision if one is not fully informed in the first place, is it? Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6892 Oakhill Grange Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have a Percy (2011 vintage) fitted with a Lokpilot 4. I presume that the chassis is the modern one that posters are describing. On DC driven by a 35 year old duette it would manage a minimum of 18 mph. On DCC it would go slower but the cogging of the motor caused massive vibrations and the stock bashing into the loco. The self tune on the Lokpilot was interesting, it. needed only 7 ft of track but I had visions of the loco flying across the room. This made no difference to the performance. With stay alive fitted it was stall proof. Based on my experiences I would say improved performance with DCC is case not proven for this type of chassis. Oakhill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have a Percy (2011 vintage) fitted with a Lokpilot 4. I presume that the chassis is the modern one that posters are describing. On DC driven by a 35 year old duette it would manage a minimum of 18 mph. On DCC it would go slower but the cogging of the motor caused massive vibrations and the stock bashing into the loco. The self tune on the Lokpilot was interesting, it. needed only 7 ft of track but I had visions of the loco flying across the room. This made no difference to the performance. With stay alive fitted it was stall proof. Based on my experiences I would say improved performance with DCC is case not proven for this type of chassis. Oakhill Perhaps it needs more tuning? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalKat Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I have pondered fitting things like these to small chassis.....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-100RPM-Mini-Metal-Gear-Motor-Gearwheel-Electric-3mm-Shaft-Box-Motor-/141625860891?hash=item20f98f231b or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-200RPM-13mm-High-Torque-Speed-Reduction-Metal-Gear-Motor-for-RC-Robot-/271564563579?hash=item3f3a82647b Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Sorry, didn't notice the OP mentioning costs at any point. I suppose it depends on how you value your time. People who know nothing about DCC by definition will not appreciate the beneficial effects decoders can have even for analogue running. So I offered it as free advice from someone who knows and has done it successfully. Not my role to decide if cost v convenience is financially attractive or not for the OP. But it's not possible to make a fully informed decision if one is not fully informed in the first place, is it? Kind regards, Paul As I understand it, the problem with excessive speed is with old models, not the latest ones, so makes it likely that it will be secondhand ones that need attention. That's the case with the one I bought on eBay recently, where the whole point was to get a cheap loco to do a quick conversion to O-16.5. A quick search shows that even the cheapest decoders cost more than I paid for the loco. Assuming the better decoders are the higher priced ones, this would push the cost of my quick loco up towards the price range where I could have spent the money on something better. Do you also need to buy any equipment for tuning them for use on DC? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 The problem stems from a very coarse worm wheel, the Triang Dock shunter / Nellie/Polly / Connie worm wheel fits but the X04 worm is too big for the motor shaft. A romford 40:1 worm fits but is too big in diameter. With a single stat Triang TT worm sleeved to take the Hornby motor shaft you can get rid of the "Cogging" and thenyou can use DCC for a degree of control the prototype could only dream of. I have pondered fitting things like these to small chassis.....http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-100RPM-Mini-Metal-Gear-Motor-Gearwheel-Electric-3mm-Shaft-Box-Motor-/141625860891?hash=item20f98f231b or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-200RPM-13mm-High-Torque-Speed-Reduction-Metal-Gear-Motor-for-RC-Robot-/271564563579?hash=item3f3a82647b Those gears look excellent but the reduction is far too great with a 12 to one worm drive you are down to 8 rpm at the wheels which is around 1or 2 MPH However the gears look like fun and if you could do away with one of the stages of reduction and or arrange a 1:1 bevel drive to the axle it could work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 The problem stems from a very coarse worm wheel, The problem was using a motor out of the Scalextric parts bin where fast and furious is the norm. The later model uses the same gearing but a much less rev happy motor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 A pic of my attempt to tame a similar beast I used a computer motor with a single start brass worm which meshes with the Triang worm wheel. Standard wheel centres had Triang Polly tyres fitted which at least let me see through the spokes but are now having tyres from wagon wheels fitted, not quite sure which size. I measured the plastic worm wheel at 18 teeth and I think the brass one which I fitted is 27 tooth it came from a Triang Power bogie but it is a bit difficult to count the teeth. The computer motor runs a lot slower than the scalextric original so it runs a lot slower but getting the meshing right has been a challenge and the chassis being plastic really needs bushing and building a brass chassis from scratch using the Hornby coupling rods would probably have been easier. My next problem is the crosshead, Not quite sure where to find anything that small in 00 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I bought a Caledonian 0-4-0 in the Hornby Black Friday sale. I wanted a child friendly loco for when grand child gets a bit bigger, but also to see whether this type of chassis would be ok for an 0-16.5 loco. Reading this thread it seems that the older 0-4-0s ran fast, too fast for shunting etc whereas newer ones have a higher torque lower revving motor that makes them more controllable. This one runs very well indeed, slow running nearly as good as a Bachmann 08 or the Hornby austerity tank when I tried it out. A pleasant surprise. My question is, when was the new spec chassis introduced, and is there an easy way of telling from model number or appearance if buying a second hand one? Could the new motor be retrofitted perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 There is an easy test. lay a circle of 1st or 2nd radius track, connect the transformer, put the loco on the track, give it full power. If it stays on the track its a later one, if it flies across the room its an early one. Some have non see through wheels and are essentially useless as the tyres quickly come loose 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Ah, the old "test to destruction" approach. :-) Interesting about the wheels, something to look out for on older models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) Hi all! I've used the 0-4-0 ST chassis (blackened wheels: the last production?) and I've changed the motor + worm with a vertical mount Faulhaber 2020B (15:1) and add a Hornby spare part worm. Now the locomotive shunts very slowly, very smoothly... a delight. I'm very happy. A photo... The motor is more expensive than the locomotive but I like the running. To hide the motor inside the OO body, it's possible to install it at the same angle as the previous one. Edited January 14, 2016 by JAMO 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hi all! I've used the 0-4-0 ST chassis (blackened wheels: the last production?) and I've changed the motor + worm with a vertical mount Faulhaber 2020B (15:1) and add a Hornby spare part worm. Now the locomotive shunts very slowly, very smoothly... a delight. I'm very happy. A photo... The motor is more expensive than the locomotive but I like the running. To hide the motor inside the OO body, it's possible to install it at the same angle as the previous one. Good idea as well with the piston rods running in brass tubing and pivoting cross heads. Going to look much better running. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMO Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Yes you're right railroadbill: Better running and better looking. The rods and cross heads come from a Hornby spare item. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 On 17/01/2016 at 09:20, JAMO said: Yes you're right railroadbill: Better running and better looking. The rods and cross heads come from a Hornby spare item. Any chance you remember what spare item it was, or if it is something I can get through Peters Spares? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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