Deltic DP1 and ?Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry

[WD0-6-0]

DP1 arrived today, stunning, just brilliant like all the NCiM models I've seen

[LocomotionatShildon]

Mine arrived yesterday, Pristine KOYLI. Have to say i`m also deciding whether or not to return mine, first thing i noticed was part of the nose top grab handle broken and wedged inside the sleeve so clearly not damaged in transit. The nose bracket nowhere even in the box and i was a little bit disappointed with the state of the box, scruffy with loose edges. Looked more like something you would get off ebay, not a £125 model. Poor QC indeed.

Hi,  I have sent a message to your inbox. 

Sandra

[ColinK]

Here is DP1 on my layout, already run in and waiting for its next trip.

 

[47423]

Many thanks today to Sandra for swapping my model today, excellent service Thank you.

[Gary H]

I actually stumbled across the article today. Word for word it reads thus;

 

Q: Would you consider retooling the Class 55 in 'OO' gauge with the correct nose profile and better detail? (Scott Hulme)

 

A: GH: ''No - there's nothing wrong with it. We can show you the original drawings and we scanned it as well.''

 

Hmm. That's why Shawplan went to all the trouble and expense with R&D making this lot then is it--

 

EEDP55-01 Class 55 Cab front windscreens

 

  EEDP55-02 Class 55 Main bodyside window frames

 

  EEDP55-03(A) Class 55 Cabside window frames (original)

 

  EEDP55-03(B) Class 55 Cabside window frames (with plated quarterlight)

 

  EEDP55-04 Class 55 Complete roof hatch grille assembly

 

  EEDP55-05 Class 55 Buffer beam assembly

 

  EEDP55-06 Class 55 Bufferbeam steps

 

  EEDP55-07 Class 55 Bonnet doors

 

  EEDP55-08 Class 55 Exhaust ports

 

  EEDP55-09 Class 55 Sand and water filler hatches

 

  EEDP55-10 Class 55 Headcode frame

 

  EEDP55-11 Class 55 Cab footstep checker plate

 

  EEDP55-12 Class 55 Bodyside grilles (Nose and air intake)

 

  EEDP55-13 Class 55 Footstep reinforcing plates

 

  EEDP55-14 Class 55 Lifting point covers     EEDP55-15 Class 55 No1 end (only) nose inspection hatch

 

  EEDP55-16 Class 55 Cab door handles and backplates

 

  EEDP55-17 Class 55 Fire pull handle surrounds

 

  EEDP55-18 Class 55 Bonnet mounted horn supports

 

  EEDP55-19 Class 55 Bogie footsteps

 

  EEDP55-20 Class 55 Windscreen wipers (also suit Class 37/40)

 

  EEDP55-21 Class 55 Lower headboard mounting brackets

 

  EEDP55-22 Class 55 ETH mounting bracket

 

  EEDP55-23 Class 55 Top nose headboard bracket

 

  EEDP55-RN1 Class 55 Cast resin nose

It doesn't even have any lights for gawds sake.

[Hilux5972]

Yeah they are definitely trying to bury their heads in the sand with the Deltic. Either that or they just don't want to.

[peak experience]

Yeah they are definitely trying to bury their heads in the sand with the Deltic. Either that or they just don't want to.

Someone will come along and make a good one one day and take my money and I'll gladly give it. If that's Bachmann or not It's no issue to me. I just want an accurate Deltic model.

As I stated earlier in the thread Bachmann have been the diesel modeller's friend for many years so it seems odd to me that this has been their stance regarding this one model. They've generally been pretty willing to listen to concerns down the years; the retooled class 37/4 and the retooled class 40 models prove as such.

Edited September 13, 2015 by peak experience

[Horsetan]

Here is DP1 on my layout, already run in and waiting for its next trip.

image.jpg

Meanwhile another one of this run has surfaced on eBay......

[traction]

I'm just wondering what the major issue is with this model?

 

 

From normal or in fact any viewing distance, it really doesn't look that big a problem to me.

In fact apart from the light missing I really can't see what the issue is.

Probably really obvious and it's late or early depending how you look at the time :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2015 by traction

[brushman47544]

Never noticed it before, but what's the "knob" or whatever at the edge of the cab windscreen just to the right of the horn on the real loco in traction's photos above? 19 in preservation also has it, but others not. Is it a preservation era addition?

[Nimbus]

Never noticed it before, but what's the "knob" or whatever at the edge of the cab windscreen just to the right of the horn on the real loco in traction's photos above? 19 in preservation also has it, but others not. Is it a preservation era addition?

It's a cab ventilator, fitted in BR days to some of the fleet, in the interests of happier crews.

 

The Nim.

[MikeParkin65]

 

I'm just wondering what the major issue is with this model?

 

Delitc pristine.jpg

KOYLI.jpg

 

From normal or in fact any viewing distance, it really doesn't look that big a problem to me.

In fact apart from the light missing I really can't see what the issue is.

Probably really obvious and it's late or early depending how you look at the time :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like to think I am pretty laid back when considering whether or not a model looks sufficiently like the prototype to persuade me to buy it. Have never been tempted by Bachmanns Deltic - for me neither the nose nor the windscreen look right and the body is sat way too high on its bogies. Then there is the general lack of detail demonstrated by the shawplan list. 

[Gary H]

 

I'm just wondering what the major issue is with this model?

 

Delitc pristine.jpg

KOYLI.jpg

 

From normal or in fact any viewing distance, it really doesn't look that big a problem to me.

In fact apart from the light missing I really can't see what the issue is.

Probably really obvious and it's late or early depending how you look at the time :-)

For me, its the whole 'face' of model and that drooped nose issue, you can see it to good effect when comparing your 2 images!

Other folk will ofcourse have a differing opinion and love the model and I totally get that but for me its a big issue and spoils the whole look of the Deltic.

Another way to see it is to sit a DP1 (the prototype obviously) and a production version side by side. DP1 is spot on as Bachmann laser scanned it, the production version they didn't as it was tooled before scanning the real thing was available.

The headcode box is also to low on the nose- could be ignored but the 'heavy shunt' droop kills it stone dead.

The other stuff like printed on panels for the sand box fillers on the cab sides is quite frankly rather crude for a model in this day and age!

I just bought the Modeller Year book produced in conjunction with Rail Express and I'd love to do as they call it "the ultimate Deltic in 4mm" but the list of jobs it needs is huge!!

They done it for Class 40 (re tooled) after its much deserved  criticism its a shame they wont do it for the production Deltic, they would sell so many more.

[Horsetan]

.....DP1 is spot on as Bachmann laser scanned it.....

Not quite. The nose top is a little too bulbous/rounded, compared to the flatter English Perpendicular shape of the real thing - this was something that Brian Hanson at Shawplan also picked up. He crafted his own ProtoDeltic shell out of a much modified Kitmaster body, and got the nose shape pretty much dead on.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Horsetan

[traction]

For me, its the whole 'face' of model and that drooped nose issue, you can see it to good effect when comparing your 2 images!

Other folk will ofcourse have a differing opinion and love the model and I totally get that but for me its a big issue and spoils the whole look of the Deltic.

Another way to see it is to sit a DP1 (the prototype obviously) and a production version side by side. DP1 is spot on as Bachmann laser scanned it, the production version they didn't as it was tooled before scanning the real thing was available.

The headcode box is also to low on the nose- could be ignored but the 'heavy shunt' droop kills it stone dead.

The other stuff like printed on panels for the sand box fillers on the cab sides is quite frankly rather crude for a model in this day and age!

I just bought the Modeller Year book produced in conjunction with Rail Express and I'd love to do as they call it "the ultimate Deltic in 4mm" but the list of jobs it needs is huge!!

They done it for Class 40 (re tooled) after its much deserved  criticism its a shame they wont do it for the production Deltic, they would sell so many more.

 

Must be me as I can't see what you and obviously others can see.

Like you say everyone will have their own opinion.

 

I just needed to see and compare because of earlier comments made in this thread by a few members I thought it had the nose of a Flying Scotsman it was that bad!

Obviously to me it's not that bad and I personally think it looks great, even if the Nose does look a bit like a Minion 

 

Cheers

 

Ian

Edited September 14, 2015 by traction

[ColinK]

I agree with Traction in thinking that the Deltic looks great. I'm looking forward to having one on my layout, complete with Deltic sound too. Indeed its the lack of the real deltic sound which has put me off buying one so far.

[Hilux5972]

So I emailed Bachmann last week about the Deltic and this is the reply I got

 

Dear Mr Scott,

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

 

The Bachmann Branchline OO scale Class 55 Deltic locomotive was first released in 2003 and since then tens of thousands of models have been produced with variants in several liveries, plus many special editions produced for the likes of The Deltic Preservation Society and the National Railway Museum.

 

Detailing parts are available from third party manufacturers to enhance and super detail many Ready-To-Run model railway items, as the quality and finesse of metal components often supersedes the level achievable on a mass produced, predominantly plastic model. The items offered by Shawplan to upgrade OO scale models of Class 55 locomotives cover a number of aspects enabling the modeller to improve moulded details which are inevitable on a RTR model such as moulded doors.

 

This subject was covered following the release of the model and a comparison between the model and works drawings was published in the Autumn 2004 issue of the Bachmann Collectors Club magazine (V5.1), I have attached a scan of this as it may be of interest to you.

I trust this information is of interest to you,

Kind regards

Richard Proudman

[Gary H]

So I emailed Bachmann last week about the Deltic and this is the reply I got

 

Dear Mr Scott,

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

 

The Bachmann Branchline OO scale Class 55 Deltic locomotive was first released in 2003 and since then tens of thousands of models have been produced with variants in several liveries, plus many special editions produced for the likes of The Deltic Preservation Society and the National Railway Museum.

 

Detailing parts are available from third party manufacturers to enhance and super detail many Ready-To-Run model railway items, as the quality and finesse of metal components often supersedes the level achievable on a mass produced, predominantly plastic model. The items offered by Shawplan to upgrade OO scale models of Class 55 locomotives cover a number of aspects enabling the modeller to improve moulded details which are inevitable on a RTR model such as moulded doors.

 

This subject was covered following the release of the model and a comparison between the model and works drawings was published in the Autumn 2004 issue of the Bachmann Collectors Club magazine (V5.1), I have attached a scan of this as it may be of interest to you.

I trust this information is of interest to you,

Kind regards

Richard Proudman

Well you have to hand it to them, to their credit , its a very comprehensive reply .

I suppose beauty as they say is in the eye of beholder!

Just to see the other angle on it- pun not intended-

Edited September 14, 2015 by Gary H

[srihaggis]

Maybe this should be posted elsewhere however prior to reading the above on cab shapes, I always thought Bachmanns looked a bit off. Not loads, just ever so slightly. Ok, if they are working to drawings that is fair enough, but one has to remember in a manufacturing process there are tolerances in drawings, so often these cabs were welded by hand on the shop floor, so it is very possible every single class 55 is ever so slightly different, or different to that of the designers drawing?

 

DP2 was made from a spare Class 55 body shell. Heljan's model I have always thought captures the deltic shape very well, and so here are a couple of comparisons with KOYLI.

 

I am not making any digs, both are great models and the ever so slight difference of shape won't make me loose any sleep! These images are just for comparing cab shapes.

 

 

 

 

As a conclusion, don't allow the differences put you off the model, it is all for a good cause and if it helps keep KOYLI serviceable for instance as well as supporting wider museum projects then i'm all for buying these pieces.

Edited September 14, 2015 by srihaggis

[MikeParkin65]

So I emailed Bachmann last week about the Deltic and this is the reply I got

 

Dear Mr Scott,

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us.

 

The Bachmann Branchline OO scale Class 55 Deltic locomotive was first released in 2003 and since then tens of thousands of models have been produced with variants in several liveries, plus many special editions produced for the likes of The Deltic Preservation Society and the National Railway Museum.

 

Detailing parts are available from third party manufacturers to enhance and super detail many Ready-To-Run model railway items, as the quality and finesse of metal components often supersedes the level achievable on a mass produced, predominantly plastic model. The items offered by Shawplan to upgrade OO scale models of Class 55 locomotives cover a number of aspects enabling the modeller to improve moulded details which are inevitable on a RTR model such as moulded doors.

 

This subject was covered following the release of the model and a comparison between the model and works drawings was published in the Autumn 2004 issue of the Bachmann Collectors Club magazine (V5.1), I have attached a scan of this as it may be of interest to you.

I trust this information is of interest to you,

Kind regards

Richard Proudman

It would be interesting to see the same analysis applied to the Graham Farish N gauge version which to my eye looks 'right' in the sane way as the OO gauge version looks wrong!

[Andy Y]

This debate has rumbled on for over a decade and my feelings are that it's a very subjective issue; Bachmann have offered verifiable evidence on which the model is based and there was a revision in tooling to make a slight amendment even though the verified difference was about 1.75" on the real thing (less than a mm on the model) and these commissioned models are from that second tooling.

 

Why do I think it's subjective? The angle that the viewer or camera had may nullify or exaggerate a perceived shape - I think this image http://www.derbysulzers.com/55004doncastermk.jpgis a good reference viewpoint at the right angle to see the slope which is there on the nose of the real thing.

 

What is a shame is to hear that someone's phoned and cancelled their order because they've read on here that it's all wrong when it is a subjective issue; the shape, after all, is the same on the models shipped as it is on the images shown at the point of announcing these editions. Cancelled because of what they've read, not because they can quantify that there's a problem.

 

I could spend a day tomorrow taking a load of measurements which would prove Heljan's DP2 to not be of the scaled dimensions of a real Deltic nose (but I'm a bit busy) so I feel it's somewhat unfair to compare it to that.

 

Bachmann have responded so anything else is just opinion, can we please leave that point out of this topic now?

[Fairburn]

This debate has rumbled on for over a decade and my feelings are that it's a very subjective issue; Bachmann have offered verifiable evidence on which the model is based and there was a revision in tooling to make a slight amendment even though the verified difference was about 1.75" on the real thing (less than a mm on the model) and these commissioned models are from that second tooling.

 

Why do I think it's subjective? The angle that the viewer or camera had may nullify or exaggerate a perceived shape - I think this image http://www.derbysulzers.com/55004doncastermk.jpgis a good reference viewpoint at the right angle to see the slope which is there on the nose of the real thing.

 

What is a shame is to hear that someone's phoned and cancelled their order because they've read on here that it's all wrong when it is a subjective issue; the shape, after all, is the same on the models shipped as it is on the images shown at the point of announcing these editions. Cancelled because of what they've read, not because they can quantify that there's a problem.

 

I could spend a day tomorrow taking a load of measurements which would prove Heljan's DP2 to not be of the scaled dimensions of a real Deltic nose (but I'm a bit busy) so I feel it's somewhat unfair to compare it to that.

 

Bachmann have responded so anything else is just opinion, can we please leave that point out of this topic now?

Wondered where you were going with a link to Derby Sulzers - thought you'd found a nose seam no one else had picked up...

[Horsetan]

Meanwhile another one of this run has surfaced on eBay......

Cheap as chips.....not.

[Guest]

Cheap as chips.....not.

How is it "Fully tested prior to sale" if it's "NEVER RUN"?

 

Must refrain from the usual antics of the Ebay Madness thread...

 

Regards,

Matt

[Horsetan]

How is it "Fully tested prior to sale" if it's "NEVER RUN"?

 

Must refrain from the usual antics of the Ebay Madness thread...

 

I did say that this run was the opportunity for the eBay profiteers to replenish their stocks, and so it is. That particular seller has two for sale, at £235 each.