RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2015 If passenger train operating were ever to be renationalised (as opposed to being state owned but franchised) I doubt we'd see many changes as DafT is already heading that way. An unintentional visit to Scotland yesterday revealed a railway largely populated by fairly new emus with limited visual evidence that they were operated by Abeillo so no doubt the Engish and Welsh railways would follow similar path - as evidenced by the new livery base colour arrangement for FGW. I would surprised to see any more freight operators operating under a nationalised banner - the obvious answer would be for the existing state-owned freight operator to takeover/see off the others but I seriously doubt the politicos (of any party) are that bright. But again it doesn't make much difference as a very high percentage of the current freight loco and wagon fleet is leased and not owned by the operators so it might just meaning shoving the state owned operator's livery onto everything as time goes by although it would need to be much simpler of course in order to save money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 it might just meaning shoving the state owned operator's livery onto everything as time goes by although it would need to be much simpler of course in order to save money. So green with copper trimmings then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2015 So green with copper trimmings then I wish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 -- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I would not expect any livery to last anywhere near twenty years now.Was there ever any "standard" livery, consistently for all stock that lasted 20 years? (On a railway in Britain.) In terms of liveries, the late 80s/early 90s had a huge variety...perhaps rivalling today. In terms of liveries - my cynical head would remind you that BR was absolutely fabulous in picking one livery for everything and never ever changing it....not. Trains didn't have to sit still for long before some clever wotsit would come out with a brand new livery, or a mod to a nice standard livery, or start painting random bits of loco that belonged to their depot to make it look more snazzy...how many versions of Intercity livery on loco's were there? 7? 10? More? And that's on a corporate image that only lasted a decade or so...Railfreight had two (official) ones in that time (plus RfD) - the "Sector" one had six official versions, and every one of them had a myriad of non-standard implementations...so my thoughts that some kind of nationalisation will result in every train in the country being repainted in one shade is sceptical. Yes. Thus is it ever so. Somehow I'm reminded of the name Stroudley. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 After all, how many differently branded McDonalds, Dominos pizza, Starbucks, Costa Coffee etc etc do you see? None; yet many are franchisees. And they all change quite frequently, someimes, it is subtle (like Starbucks' changes) and sometimes not. Dominos is going through a massive rebranding campaign in the US right now. It is no longer "Dominos Pizza" but just "Dominos". All the signage has to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 An unintentional visit to Scotland yesterday How do you accidentally end up in Scotland? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 How do you accidentally end up in Scotland? Begging the question "When does one deliberately go there?" but I for one would never dream of saying such a thing. Actually I would like to deliberately go there. Maybe one day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigP Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 -- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 I fail to see how as a franchised passenger network a single 'passenger train brand' could not save money through needles rebranding & repaitning upon the change of the franchisee, benefiting the treasury and the franchisee together. Paul, I think that such rebranding activity (and the associated costs) is as inevitable as sunrise, whether branding is applied piecemeal (like today's TOCs) or with a nationalised brand across the whole fleet. It might happen a bit less, but it would happen all the same. It is what the history of railway liveries suggests would happen. Someone will want to give the fleet a new makeover every few years or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Yes, he might have trouble recruiting sufficient numbers of indigenous coal miners, in the same way that agriculture has trouble recruiting indigenous workers to toil in the fields...... Still, there's always *kof*migrants*kof* from Europe.....Plenty of experienced people in Poland who would be glad of well paid jobs. *kof*. That means small German shunting locomotive to me. In the new workers paradise of Corbonia we could probably do with the help of the Poles to build the new steam locomotives that will be required. Oxford Diecast will have to change it's name to some thing less elitist. Base Toys will probably have to do the same for the opposite reason. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Paul, I think that such rebranding activity (and the associated costs) is as inevitable as sunrise, whether branding is applied piecemeal (like today's TOCs) or with a nationalised brand across the whole fleet. It might happen a bit less, but it would happen all the same. And it's not necessarily a bad thing, if the trains and stations get refurbished and repainted, and the staff given new uniforms, more regularly. It keeps everything looking a bit less tatty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Yes, he might have trouble recruiting sufficient numbers of indigenous coal miners, in the same way that agriculture has trouble recruiting indigenous workers to toil in the fields...... Still, there's always *kof*migrants*kof* from Europe.....I can think of a few bigger problems for them by 2022+ when he can get wheels in motion:1) the cost and complexity of pumping out the abandoned shafts, knocking down all the new housing and rebuilding the long demolished pit head buildings 2) finding a use for the coal once dug out given to speed our coal fired power stations are closing. 3) getting NR to re signal and lay new connections and colliery sidings through redeveloped housing, landscaping, parks etc, not to mention fighting off every green, tree hugger and EU bureaucrat who will want to challenge him in court. Still, it would improve our modelling variety but so would recreating our long lost home iron ore / ironstone quarries, blast furnaces and car factories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2015 How do you accidentally end up in Scotland? We were on a ship which, when we boarded her, was due to go to Swansea however it was diverted to Greenock (via a double back of 70 miles - each way - to Wicklow in Ireland). Hence over a period of one week we arrived in Weymouth courtesy of South West Trains, the next time I saw a train it was a dmu rounding Bray Head just south of Dublin (a mile or so away from the ship of course), and the next one after that was an emu from Greenock to Glasgow. No quiet holidays by the beach for us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 3) getting NR to re signal and lay new connections and colliery sidings through redeveloped housing, landscaping, parks etc, not to mention fighting off every green, tree hugger and EU bureaucrat who will want to challenge him in court. He'll need to build quite a few locos and wagons to shift all the coal as well. There is actually a use for it - you can refine coal to produce petrol/diesel. Nazi German did this when they were desperate for fuel in the latter stages of WW2 (having no oil but plenty of coal). It's a very expensive source of petrol though - it's much cheaper to get it from crude oil, of which we still have loads. I'd assumed that we were sitting on our remaining coal reserves for the day when the oil runs out so we can do this (unless somebody works out how to build a viable fusion reactor in the mean time). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkeNd Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 It will never happen - but if it did a model railway of a nationalised railway would simply require a great deal of weathering. Livery would be irrelevant because it would not be discernible through the grime, and little model staff would outnumber passengers. There would only be very old locos because increased manning would not have been agreed to operate new high speed trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 It will never happen - but if it did a model railway of a nationalised railway would simply require a great deal of weathering. Livery would be irrelevant because it would not be discernible through the grime, and little model staff would outnumber passengers. There would only be very old locos because increased manning would not have been agreed to operate new high speed trains. Its hard to believe this is even being considered. As well as all those reasons quoted already its amazing that there are those still in authority who still think of antiquated policies but we are not talking politics here, are we? Must keep off such a subject on a railway forum. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 If they were re-nationalised I suspect it would be England only. There could be too many complications in trying to take back the devolved franchising responsibilities in Scotland and Wales. Not to mention this would be deeply unpopular. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 We were on a ship which, when we boarded her, was due to go to Swansea however it was diverted to Greenock (via a double back of 70 miles - each way - to Wicklow in Ireland). Hence over a period of one week we arrived in Weymouth courtesy of South West Trains, the next time I saw a train it was a dmu rounding Bray Head just south of Dublin (a mile or so away from the ship of course), and the next one after that was an emu from Greenock to Glasgow. No quiet holidays by the beach for us Patricia, by any chance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkeNd Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Its hard to believe this is even being considered. As well as all those reasons quoted already its amazing that there are those still in authority who still think of antiquated policies but we are not talking politics here, are we? Must keep off such a subject on a railway forum. Brian Nothing to do with politics Brian despite where the root idea is coming from. My model nationalised railway layout comment is based on memory. Nowadays trains, railway buildings, and staff gleam with the caring that is sponsored by private ownership which has engendered the sort of pride you see in other private industries. If the railways were nationalised and it became just a railway "service" instead of a number of smaller business how long would the current standards last? So to model it I suggest we would just need to let things slide again - but brought forward in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Patricia, by any chance? ...and his wife thought he'd gone off to model railway exhibition for a few days !!!!!!! The sly old fox. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 14, 2015 Patricia, by any chance? ...and his wife thought he'd gone off to model railway exhibition for a few days !!!!!!! The sly old fox. . Exactly so - but sorry to disappoint you Ron as herself was with me (and due to the weather the only time we got off the ship between joining at Weymouth and disembarking at Greenock was while we were at the Channel Light Vessel; a possible trip ashore to St Ives had to be cancelled). And here we were, last Friday, circling the Patricia and the Channel LV while the techs were busy aboard the latter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I've read some ill-informed rubbish on this site but this thread has to rank up there with the best. Keep it up chaps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I can't wait to go back 40 years! At least my suit, flares and TriAng stuff will be in vogue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 The Hammer & Sickle, with a couple of red stars? ...and how about to match? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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