leopardml2341 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wot 'e said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Hello third rail fans, a few bits and pieces to report... Starting with the 4BIG, and since the CEP chassis idea was shelved (these btw are now happily reunited with the CEP coach bodies, awaiting a trip to "Swindon" for "refurbishment" one day), the Replica chassis and bogie kits have arrived. These have been duly detailed with B5(S) conversion and BIG underframe parts from Southern Pride. The clip-fit between the chassis and the underlying Replica donor coaches was very satisfying after the failed attempts to make the CEP chassis fit snugly. Please excuse the terrible light in these photos, it's been a miserable day in Sussex-by-the-Sea: The completed bogies are primed, the chassis will follow suit as soon as the running boards are fitted, the last of the Trailer Buffet underframe parts have been attached (still unsure about a few bits here)and the interiors (also Southern Pride) are installed. Here is a DTCL and the TB, both at various stages of completion: Edit: just pointing out the slab of white 40 thou mid-coach - this sits atop the Replica carriage weight to level up the floor. The complete coaches are pleasingly ballasted. As for the NSE 4CIG, no progress above the solebar (getting a bit chilly for airbrushing until I can coax the heater into life), however 4 more Replica chassis and 6 trailer bogies have been detailed with the same SP parts as the BIG. The only change of plan with this unit is that I have managed to acquire a pair of Hornby 73's as power units, to be relieved of their motor bogies which are of course Mark 6's. The NSE CIG was initially planned as a Phase 1 unit (1706), however with the Mark 4 power bogies earmarked now surplus to requirements, what was one to do? Answer... Start another 4CIG! Here are two more Replica donor coaches under prep. So far i've neglected the coach inner ends with regard to detailing, but since this is Mark 1 Mark 3 (?!) I thought i'd better raise my game. Here are the appropriate steps/shed socket/jumper boxes/corridor connections/roof overhang on a TSO and MBSO, awaiting MJT brass sides. Happy with these inner ends, I shall retro-fit these parts to the BIG and first CIG. Thanks to Colin Parks and his CIG build topic for help with inner end detailing! Unit number three will become number 1711, and finished in 'Jaffa Cake' livery as seen here at Seaford: https://www.flickr.com/photos/69388036@N08/15329804827 No date to the photo but the combination of NSE red lamp posts with older BR corporate running in boards suggests 1986-87, perfect for the period i'm modelling Lewes in, and conveniently 'copped' on the East Coastway too! 14 units, all phase 1, received these colours but were the first to receive 'toothpaste' stripes, the image-concious NSE evidently singling out these non-standard units. I'm using the evidence above to assume 1711 evaded the paintbrush for a little while at least. I for one think it was the most handsome livery the CIG's wore (fight amongst yourselves!) and am very much looking forward to painting it. That's looking amazing. I remember travelling on a Jaffa cake CIG back in the 80s. The livery really did sit well on them IMHO. Shame there was all that trouble with it. Apparently some units were outshopped only to go back in again... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium acg5324 Posted December 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2015 No wavy shelf If you need an attendant idea? I'm boring myself by mentioning again that there was a cross-dressing buffet car attendant back in the late 80s: very tall and with massive hands and red painted nails. I just happened to be on his/her last down run Vic to Eastbourne and the place had the appearance of a BR corporate flavoured den of iniquity! Bunting, balloons, bowls of nibbles, Good Luck Gerald/Geraldine banners... Oh yes I remember "her" when the buffet crews used to pay in the takings at Brighton ticket office or occasionally at Hove where I was chief clerk.The buffet interior walls will need the Big D peanut display card and cans of Mcewens Export and Tennants? Lager to go go with the Lyons apple pies etc. Excellent work with the model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 That's looking amazing. I remember travelling on a Jaffa cake CIG back in the 80s. The livery really did sit well on them IMHO. Shame there was all that trouble with it. Apparently some units were outshopped only to go back in again... It's all the more odd given that the Eastern section stuck with it on their CEPs and a few MLVs until 1990 at least, with NSE 'flashes' on the cab fronts and branding on one coach each side, then that black lining top and bottom of the orange stripe...glad I didn't have to add that to the CIG! I think some AC emus on the Fenchurch St lines got Jaffa colours too ('Essex Express' branding too IIRC?) but I don't know how long they survived into NSE days before repainting. Anyway, a livery much missed all round! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) Looking very nice. I'll take your word about its smell.I wonder if they looked smart and clean because they wouldn't have shown the dirt so easily as that toothpaste-esk NSE livery did? Liveries with white on the lower body side never seem like a good idea to me. Jaffa was the right livery at the wrong time...Imagine my horror of seeing a 3CEP driver training unit sat in Platform 1 at Lewes one day in full Connex white and yellow hideousness.I think that was the moment I lost interest in 'the modern railway'. A bit like the day I was walking down the road and realised I was wearing flares.Great to see 'time before Connex' rolling off your workbench. [Edited to remove an Eskimo! - bloomin' predictive] Edited December 13, 2015 by number6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Looking very nice. I'll take your word about its smell. I wonder if they looked smart and clean because they wouldn't have shown the dirt so easily as that toothpaste-esk NSE livery did? Liveries with white on the lower body side never seem like a good idea to me. Jaffa was the right livery at the wrong time... Imagine my horror of seeing a 3CEP driver training unit sat in Platform 1 at Lewes one day in full Connex white and yellow hideousness. I think that was the moment I lost interest in 'the modern railway'. A bit like the day I was walking down the road and realised I was wearing flares. Great to see 'time before Connex' rolling off your workbench. [Edited to remove an Eskimo! - bloomin' predictive] The CEPs weren't supposed to get Connex livery as the were due for early withdrawal and Connex didn't want to sully the brand (excuse me whilst I indulge in 10 minutes of hysterical laughter). The one that did get was the unit damaged in aside swipe at London Bridge which required a repaint as part of the repairs. Unlike SWT, which kept their CEPs in tip top condition right to the end, Connex let their CEP fleet descend into the most derelict state I have ever seen 'in service' stock get to. I need to scan some pics I took in the last months but they include 1509 at Faversham looking to all intents and purposes like condemned stock but still in service. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 This is the unit I saw. I think I still prefer CEPs in South Eastern grot. Can you imagine how groady they would have become in this livery?SouthCentral-930082-977861(BR_61044)-977863(BR_61038)-NorwodJn-180602b by Michael Wadman, on FlickrSorry South Central for messing up the thread - but this unit is named after you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Ah, that was the driver route learning one, it was never in passenger service in those colours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) The most decrepit rolling stock I ever travelled in was a Connex 508 on the Medway Valley line. Missing seat cushions galore, and those that were still intact left a lot to be desired in terms of cleanliness! No worries about the CEP red herring, bringing things back to the Central division Lovers Walk appeared to have an allocation of various CEPs throughout their lives. I think they kept the prototype 4 4CEPs and 2 4BEPs (distinguishable with their roof conduit) amongst other CEPs. Then there were the four 4TEPs - refurbished 4BEP with an unrefurbished buffet car - to cover during the 4BIG refurbishment programme. Alas these were disbanded in 1986 and reformed as CEPs for the Hastings line, so sadly a year too soon for my layout. And I think even Connex South Central had three CEPs early on, and they kitted them out with Mk 6 motor bogies for Brighton - London Bridge peak fasts. All that aside, I still intend to build one or two one day for Lewes. Tim Wood's "Southern Electric Driver" notes that up until the mid-Eighties the night down and morning up Newhaven boat trains were formed of 8CEP with an MLV (I think a lot of mail for France went across on the overnight ferry to Dieppe), running to/from the Eastern platforms at Victoria (to use BR International's facilities) and stabling at Newhaven Marine overnight. Someone I asked suggested this might have gone over to CIGs from 1986 when the Hastings line electrification required more CEP availability, but I might just err on the side of wishful thinking and hope they clung on until '87 at least. And while I'm in full "research findings" mode, diverted Hastings line CEPs of course ran via Eastbourne-Plumpton-Gatwick. So one in Jaffa and one in B/G would suit me just fine a little way off yet!! Edited December 13, 2015 by South Central Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) Ah, that was the driver route learning one, it was never in passenger service in those coloursThere was one "regular" CEP, 1602 rings a bell, that did get Connex colours after repairs. I think she disgraced herself derailing at London Bridge in 1999. Unlike "standard" Connex livery there was no black on the upper cab front, so the grime had nowhere to hide! Edit: ignore that! I see it mentioned above already...oops! Edited December 13, 2015 by South Central Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 As I don't have access to a scanner this a snap of one of my photos of 1609 taken using my mobile - despite the distortion and reflection, you can see the state it was in.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 And to help get back on topic, here are some pictures I took on a 4BIG on the last day of buffets on the Brighton line. I was managing the catering contract at the time so we had a last morning out making toasties in the buffet car. I quite fancied getting my hands on one of those 'Buffet' murals but the cars were sold on intact as most of them seem to have ended up preservation or storage somewhere. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 And to help get back on topic, here are some pictures I took on a 4BIG on the last day of buffets on the Brighton line. I was managing the catering contract at the time so we had a last morning out making toasties in the buffet car. I quite fancied getting my hands on one of those 'Buffet' murals but the cars were sold on intact as most of them seem to have ended up preservation or storage somewhere. These are incredibly useful - thanks! Now with an idea of what went where on the shelves, I might make up a 2-d image in 'paint' of these shelves square on using stock images of drinks cans/snacks/etc in the style of James Makin's petrol station on Loftus Road. That buffet mural would be very snazzy, but judging by the colour scheme it's probably an NSE addition? Too late for my blue and grey BIG. The pictures I have show a slightly more drab abstract design which again is ready to print out on photographic paper to give it a prototypical glossy laminate shine 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN LINE 457 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 That buffet mural would be very snazzy, but judging by the colour scheme it's probably an NSE addition? Too late for my blue and grey BIG. The pictures I have show a slightly more drab abstract design which again is ready to print out on photographic paper to give it a prototypical glossy laminate shine The Buffet murals were in 4-BIG's from quite early on.....there is a photo(black & white) of the inside on P.126 of the 1979 'Railway World Annual' where they describe the graphics at least as banal! Personally I quite liked them. The only slight doubt I have was according to my memory at least I do remember the Black/White/Red combo's but not the Blue/White & Red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 The Buffet murals were in 4-BIG's from quite early on.....there is a photo(black & white) of the inside on P.126 of the 1979 'Railway World Annual' where they describe the graphics at least as banal! Personally I quite liked them. The only slight doubt I have was according to my memory at least I do remember the Black/White/Red combo's but not the Blue/White & Red. Well that's interesting to learn, we shall have a mural then! The challenge now though in the absence of a square-on image is to mock up a near replica which I think is achievable with Publisher and Paint. It would certainly add some more charm to a coach I've always hoped would be particularly rewarding to gaze through the windows into I've got an Executive Mk2 RMB(T) to do for my Newhaven-Manchester rake and I'm hoping for similar interior charm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'd be happy to do a replica of that wall for you - graphic design is the day job - and then I can start a line in replica 70s carriage decor for hipsters! Eddie [Edward] Pond anyone? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 I'd be happy to do a replica of that wall for you - graphic design is the day job - and then I can start a line in replica 70s carriage decor for hipsters! Eddie [Edward] Pond anyone? That would be brilliant, thanks! How easy a job will it be, out of interest? You could get quite a catalog together - the murals in the Wessex Electrics (when they truly were 'Wessex') spring to mind for starters. Any others? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Once I've done a BUFFET lettering the rest is straight duplication and colour changing. I think I prefer the type based ones - but the carriage end landscapes on the Thameslinks probably deserve another look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted February 14, 2016 Author Share Posted February 14, 2016 Hello all, After a few weeks' break from the '63 stock builds to knock up one of Lewes' footbridges (microstrip latticework, arghhhhh!), a few updates: I managed to get Jaffa Cake CIG 1702 structurally complete inside and out, including those fiddly headrests on the seating. One of my main gripes with the method i've used to build these units has been the cantrail strip area. I've been mounting the MJT brass sides underneath and up tight to the moulded cantrail strip on the Replica Mk 1 donor coach. It became apparent during painting that this leaves too large a gap between the windows and the roof, highlighted by some noticeably over-thick first class yellow stripes. Equally at the bottom of the brass side, this leaves too great and overhang on the solebar, so much so that it sits atop the running boards. To address this, i've returned to the first unit I built at the start of this thread (which has ever since been gathering dust in half-complete NSE livery), as a 'guinea pig' to see what can be done. In short, the brass sides were removed, the moulded cantrail strip sheared off, the brass sides re-attached further up in its place and a new, thinner cantrail strip affixed atop the brass side. I'm working on the unit's fourth and final coach this afternoon so I should have some photo's later to explain the work a bit better . I will have a similar go at rejigging my 4BIG at some point too, although this will be a bit more challenging as the unit is fully painted. Since an RMwebber had expressed an interest in the Jaffa Cake CIG late last year, I offered the unit up with the cantrail-related bother taken into account, and duly the unit is now in new hands as an unmotorised dummy. I understand her new life entails being push-pulled by a similarly livered/'refurbed' Bachmann CEP, so hopefully some pictures of this consist will appear in due course?! ;) I grabbed a couple of pictures a few days before boxing up, those purple seats took a serious amount of dulling down! I fancied a go at adding some of the moquette stripes, so started with the orange. However, after refitting the coach bodies for a looksee it became apparent how little could be seen, so the various light and dark blue stripes never followed...lesson learned! Anyway, like any good not-for-profit railway (Network Rail take note!) the income has been re-invested in a new set of MJT/Replica parts and another CIG is underway. So fourth time lucky (!), I *think* i've at last got a definitive way of building a Replica/MJT 4CIG - i'm taking pictures as I go with a view to compiling a step-by-step guide for anyone interested in having a go, and i'll probably post it in a week or two. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Hi South Central, Nice work on the CIG and looking forward to seeing progress on the next one! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Anyone doing a BEP in the near future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Hi South Central, Nice work on the CIG and looking forward to seeing progress on the next one! All the best, Colin Hi Colin, good to hear from you. It's been said before and it's bound to be tempting fate but the second CIG is tantalisingly close to completion! With the seating now in place (with the position of the declassified compartment(s) being the key point here) and the motor bogies selected (mk 6 for this unit), i'm now committed to a 'phase 2' post-facelift example, therefore a 18XX series number. The last coat of rail blue goes on tonight... Anyone doing a BEP in the near future? Afternoon Andy, not me! To paraphrase Ken Bruce, my 1987 fleet is 'one year out' for the similar 4TEP sadly, although i've got a refurb'ed CEP or two pencilled in for the very distant future, for Newhaven boat trains. I did however stumble across this layout on Twitter of all places - the chap in question has made a great looking refurb'ed BEP out of what looks like a Bachmann CEP and MJT CEP sides, with I believe a cut-and-shut for the trailer buffet. And very nice it looks too in NSE stripes, as indeed does the rest of his vast collection of South Western Division units and stock - bravo! Edit - original link didn't work. Here's the twitter page, have a scroll through the 'media' and you'll find pictures/videos of the BEP in question... https://twitter.com/NSE_Latchmere/ Edited February 26, 2016 by South Central Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Mornin' all With the 'Jaffa CIG' (for want of a better name for it!) ending up as an unpowered dummy, I haven't talked much about motorising these units yet. Nothing new here though, i'll be robbing a Hornby '73' of its motor and bogies and affixing the motor bogie mount onto a Replica chassis, concealed within the guard's van/luggage cage. One thing of note however is i've decided to make use of the mk. 6 motor bogie sideframes from Hornby's 4VEP, as a 'cop out' from hacking the Hornby '73' bogies into a better representation of an EMU version. The replacement parts are easily interchangeable and clip in perfectly, and the bronze pick-up strips also swap over a treat too. Here's a comparison of the two 'dummy' power bogies, the Hornby part on the left being X6308, and the equivalent part for the drive bogie being X6307. When I finally get around to motorising a 'phase 1' CIG, it'll probably be a case of sawing the sideframes off the class 73 bogie and affixing a cosmetic mk. 4 sideframe in its place - i've got a couple of MJT cast ones in the spares box which will do here. As an aside, the recent reviews of the Dapol '73' in the mags got me thinking whether in time when they come down in price (wishful thinking?!), they will become the new 'go-to' power source for BR(S) mk. 1 EMUs - Dapol's representation of a mk 6 power bogie looks very fine with plenty of detail. What the running qualities and motor bogie mount arrangement are I do not know, as these would be important factors too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Buffet wall anyone? This isn't New Rail Alphabet http://www.newrailalphabet.co.uk/ but I think at 4mm to the foot that is not going to be noticed... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Central Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 Buffet wall anyone? This isn't New Rail Alphabet http://www.newrailalphabet.co.uk/ but I think at 4mm to the foot that is not going to be noticed... Superb! I'll have a go at fixing that in place one night next week. Hmm...printed out on some glossy photographic paper should give a reasonable representation of shiny formica I should think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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