Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 27, 2015 Administrators Share Posted November 27, 2015 Quite interesting following this thread, especially as me and my father are currently in the process of building our first layout. Lovely work, and I look forward to more updates! It's a shame to hear about the electronic uncouplers. Do you think there's any way to prevent the interference issue? As we have bought one a while ago to put into our layout, so of course are a little concerned after reading of your experiences and if we can, would like to prevent it going haywire. Thanks, Stuart My feeling is that the problem is worst on a portable layout which needs to run all sorts of loco including kits and those under development. Keep the servo leads short, place the circuit boards somewhere other then directly under the track and I reckon you'll be fine. When these work they are very good. Also, talk to the manufacturer, he's very helpful and keen to make this work. If I'd had time to experiment then we might have sorted them for even the weird requirements of RQ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 A future Article on the tow tugs as in your blog for ruston quey? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 28, 2015 Administrators Share Posted November 28, 2015 A future Article on the tow tugs as in your blog for ruston quey? I'm told I'm not allowed any more boat modelling in the mag for a while. Got to go back to railways now! :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Great to see you and layout in person earlier at Warley and apologies my child ran away! Funnily enough, he told his mum all about seeing the "BRM man" as soon as we got home... David 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam_Julie Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) I suppose it a case of pushing the boat out, too far? I do like the lighting rig, the supports and the proscenium arch provide framing for the layout. Have you considered using a photographic backscene printed in vinyl to complete the scene? Incidentally what are the advantages of using an external blog? Julie Edited November 29, 2015 by Steam_Julie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam_Julie Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 (edited) Thinking about the practicalities of my design, for what I have decided to call Borough Lane. I have decided that the fiddleyard will be hinged, and therefore to make it more practical I have moved the signal box, so that it won't get damaged when the fiddleyard is folded away. I have also decided that the backscene will be removeable when the layout is packed up for transit. Julie Edited November 29, 2015 by Steam_Julie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted November 30, 2015 I do like the lighting rig, the supports and the proscenium arch provide framing for the layout. Have you considered using a photographic backscene printed in vinyl to complete the scene? Julie I'm pondering several ideas for the backscene: Plain white board Misty painted (sprayed) shilouette skyline Peco industrial town Photo backscene Building "flats" My plan, if I get time, is to try (or at least mock up photographically) several of these and compare the results. My favourite option is the second one but that's because I haven't tried it yet. Paul's painting onf the model suggests something like this. Photo backscenes can be a lot of work. I tried an early one on Flockborugh and until the lights were on it, the image dominated the scene. More acomplished people now knock the colour back quite a lot to give the impression of distance. In photos they usually look excellent though but I'm still not that convinced when I see the results in real life. Another issue picked up over Warley is access to the back of the layout. At once point the hidden area was stuffed full of locomotives we'd borrowed to photograph on the layout. I'm not sure how much removing this fascility is a problem. Finally, how tall should the backscene be? Again, at Warley I found myself operating from behind the model rather then the end due to the crowds so I think I need to be able to see over it. Hmmmm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted November 30, 2015 Incidentally what are the advantages of using an external blog? You don't have the evil Andy York fiddling with your words from his bunker? Seriously - I started my blog in 2005 as an experiment while working on early web sites. At the time blogging was the latest thing and the news was full of people who had blogged about work and got the sack. I fancied having a go but decided even if I was happy to risk my job, writing about the workings of an IT department in a vegetable research centre probably wasn't the most exciting subject. So, I decided to write about my hobby (OK, not much more exciting). Anyway, at the time, the options were: Blogger. I don't think the relatively new RMweb offered the facility and even if it did, I could mess around more with Blogger. The options, if you know a bit of HTML, are generous and it's both free and without adverts for the hosted service unlike the slightly simpler to use Wordpress. With several thousand posts now, even if I wanted to move anywhere, it would be a world of pain. More to the point, if working within RMweb, I'd feel that I ought to stick to model railways. On my blog, I write about all sorts of projects from boats and plastic kits to classic cars. My most popular post covers fixing the indicators on an early Peugeot 206! Blogging is a subject I'm quite passionate about - setting yourself a target of X number of posts a week gives you a focus for the topic and can avoid interest waning as you have to progress just to have something to write about. This has helped enormously with the novel I've written with a friend as even when we are too busy to work on the manuscript, the blog readers mean we can't just forget about it for a while. In my case it makes me practise both writing and photography. The results provide a useful "notebook" for eventual magazine articles sometimes too. Anyway, to answer the question. I prefer an external blog because: It allows me to write about anything. I can mess around with the design to make it my own. If I put adverts on (I have 1) then the derisory income is mine. However, if you are writing about a model railway project and don't want to mess around with the code in to set a blog up then I still recommend doing something in RMweb. Show off your work and be proud of it, whatever the standard. There is always someone who will be inspired by your efforts and the day they get in touch, you'll be pleased you bothered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted November 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted November 30, 2015 Great to see you and layout in person earlier at Warley and apologies my child ran away! Funnily enough, he told his mum all about seeing the "BRM man" as soon as we got home... David Don't worry, I have that effect on small children. And lots of other people actually... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I don't think that we disagree fundamentally. You have a very specific need for exhibition purposes. And the design meets that. But is it something which, if copied by others, would give them long-term satisfaction? I think it needs a bit more for that. But as you said in your earlier post "you've designed layouts like this, but never built one" And that's the crux of it. Many of us design several layouts which never get built, but it's only by actually building them that we truly learn. The basis of the inglenook design has been built by many many modellers over the years, it has been adopted, adapted and tweaked to suit different railways, regions scenarios, practices and countries..... I suspect that hundreds of layouts, based on this design have been built, and hundreds more will be built, its' basis continues to satisfy modellers everywhere. Some modellers want a small, quickly set up layout, for half an hours shunting, some build layouts like this as they have no space for anything bigger. Some build them because the huge layout they dream of will never get finished But moreover, I and others have built similar layouts to practice and hone modelling techniques I built my tiny O gauge "Poynton Sneer" sidings as a small O gauge shunting layout which fitted all on one board (incl fiddle) so it could bet set up really quickly - plonk on the kitchen table (while Mrs S is out, of course!) - a quick clean of the track, and 5 mins later, I have a working layout, where I can just play trains for an hour, or test stock I say play trains for an hour - but it's amazing how long it can hold your attention, once you start shuffling wagons around Certainly, no operator would want to operate a layout like this every day for weeks on end - but that is not the point (please pardon the pun) I'd recommend having a go at a small layout like this to anyone who hasn't built one before. It's amazing how much you can learn from something small. In my years of building and exhibiting, I've met many many would be layout builders who never actually finish anything So have a go - it doesn't have to be your "forever layout" BTW. Phil Parker - really like the design here. I've seen this type of scenario before, with high level passenger line, and low level goods. But your neat solution with the station roof at one end, and the tall warehouses at the other is great Steam Julie - you have spotted a neat way of extending Phil's design too This allows the flexibility of just using the one, main board, where space may be limited at home and the beauty of being able to extend the fiddle yards for operation at exhibition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam_Julie Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) It's also designed to be able to use the shunting puzzle with the fiddle yard in the packed up position! on the coffee table. I'm also thinking about moving the upper level, to a corner to corner position, so that it also acts as a brace, to prevent baseboard warp. Julie Edited December 1, 2015 by Steam_Julie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam_Julie Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Today I have been building a Paul Lunne type model of a model. The first stage was carried out to prove the strength of the proposed design. Steps of the basic baseboard construction Adding the high level support View blocking building added Canal basin cut away Theatre type presentation exhibition view Complete layout as packed away conditions Julie Edited December 2, 2015 by Steam_Julie 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted December 2, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 2, 2015 Looking at your model, my only suggestion would be to make the viaduct a concave curve as viewed from the front. This opens up the shunting yard a bit and gives you a better visible to hidden ratio. All of which proves the value of building a model of the model. A lesson I should learn for the future... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastdax Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) It was good to talk to you on Saturday Phil. You encouraged me to post my plans for an O Gauge version of Ruston Quays, so here it is. This is the proposed trackplan, from a Templot print overlaid with a few basic shapes (red for warehouse and retaining walls / arches and blue for the canal basin): You will notice that I have added a couple of sidings to the basic Inglenook three. There is a kick-back along the quay. The rationale for this is that a train of 5 wagons being propelled into view should have a brake van on the front. With the kick-back, a second shunter - normally idle in the kick-back - can grab the brake van and pull it out of the way, leaving the normal Inglenook puzzle unobstructed. At the end of shunting, the process can be reversed and the brake van restored to the end of the train before it exits stage right. The second siding added, under the station, is simply for storage of an extra item or two of rolling stock. I know prototype practice frowns on turnouts in tunnels, but I am a bit cramped for space. Being for O Gauge, there are, of course, a few compromises. The main one is width. The layout will sit on a run of cabinets which are 550mm deep, so the layout can't be much more than this without getting in the way. The 9 foot length is not so limiting and allows for a full 5-3-3 Inglenook plan. The warehouse, which on Ruston Quays is a full and solid structure, will have to be somewhat low-relief and the canal basin will be only just wide enough for a rusty butty. The layout will be 9 feet (2750mm) long and between 550 and 700mm wide, with (probably) a gentle curve to the front, in order to make more space in the vital front-corner areas. I have managed to get all curves and turnouts to 1800mm radius minimum (or thereabouts) to help avoid buffer-locking since I'll be using 3-link couplings. The Inglenook exit lines and the station approach line both meet the board edges at 90 degrees, to allow me to add optional fiddle yards in the future if I can find more space or if I'm granted permission by the Household Authorities to play on the kitchen table! I plan to get building the baseboards soon (as soon as the Xmas shenanigans are out of the way). In the meantime, the rolling stock is slowly progressing. I have now built a 3F Jinty shunter (from a Connoisseur kit), a mineral wagon, a box van and a 7-plank open! Just another loco, brake van and 5 more wagons to get to my minimum working stock level. Its name? Offerston Quay! (It's a town scene being built for my home office - geddit? Oh never mind ...) Duncan Edited December 27, 2015 by Fastdax 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I would like to see a "proper" 7mm- 1 ft Narrow Boat Butty model!. 490 mm Long, by 49mm beam. Some model that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted December 2, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 2, 2015 I would like to see a "proper" 7mm- 1 ft Narrow Boat Butty model!. 490 mm Long, by 49mm beam. Some model that! It's a bit basic, but worth a look: http://www.sarikhobbies.com/product/o-gauge-canal-butty-boat-kit/ I built the 4mm version on my blog a few weeks ago: http://philsworkbench.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/vac-formed-barge-kit.html http://philsworkbench.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/painted-barge.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Now those kits are not so bad....just about the right size. The made up models have authentic company names, but the Motor Boat is missing the Engine Room Doors. The OO Thames Barge looks good as well...that is really a barge! How long is the OO narrow boat? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastdax Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I would like to see a "proper" 7mm- 1 ft Narrow Boat Butty model!. 490 mm Long, by 49mm beam. Some model that! I may not have the layout yet, but I do have a 7mm scale Sarik butty boat waiting to be built. It's about 60mm wide by 480 long. Duncan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam_Julie Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) I take your point about the scenic area, but I thought I could add a mill behind the station like Ingrow, West Yorkshire. Having the station on a curve would look better. The real railway does not have many pieces of straight track. I will add mill to model of model. I also think that the mill between the yard & high level needs to be about half current size, because it only needs to hide fiddle yard entrance. I also think that I can increase the length of the layout slightly too. Julie Edited December 3, 2015 by Steam_Julie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted December 3, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 3, 2015 How long is the OO narrow boat? 28cm long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Thanks Phil. Wow....that is actually the right length as well! So many narrow boat models are made that are too short! There are some kits that scale as 45 Ft long, and are, to put it mildly, not very accurate...I know it is like rivet counting, but the windows are not very likely on a "carrying" boat. OK on a "cabin" boat (pleasure boat) though. Scalescenes make some Narrow Boat Models, that are also a bit short, at somewhere around 65 Feet. (And some Lock Gates, etc. as well...)As you may well be aware, the vast majority of carrying boats were 70 Ft long by 7 Ft beam. Making the boats shorter (for space reasons) is akin to using Tri-ang 6" Coaches! Or the Short Hornby MkIII coaches that were "slated" by some... A good "cheat" would be to have a part boat going into a tunnel or a bridge (scenic break), or the back end sticking out from under a warehouse loading arch. 1 kit could provide the front end coming under a bridge and the back end in the loading bay!It is better for "modern" models, as shorter boats now abound. There are even a couple of short "carrying" boats about (I owned one 40 Ft boat myself until recently!), but I would say that none have windows like that model kit! (Portholes, yes!)There were some shorter "Tugs", mainly in the London area and around Birmingham - Wolverhampton (BCN; Birmingham Canal Navigations.). These usually have a longish cabin and engine room, and a boarded over "hold", nowadays known as a "tug deck".These towed "trains" of 70 Ft Open Boats on the long, lock-free levels of the BCN. There were even some larger (C 80 ft long by 8 Ft Beam) open boats, known as "'ampton Boats, that were not taken through the narrow locks, and were confind to the "Wolverhampton Level" of the BCN. "Full Length" kits do exist. There were some card kits produced by Garth Allan:http://www.garthallan.co.uk/kits.htmThese were "full hull" models, and could be made to float!These seem to be no longer available as the place that took the kits over no longer has a website!I did make up some of these kits, (I still have some, including a part unmade kit!).Langley Models used to make Grand Union boats in white metal, I think these were all "waterline" models. A friend had one, a butty boat.The new Langley resin boats I have seen in photos look OK, but are probably not 100% accurate in all parts....but what model is anyway? Some I have seen made up, and using Langleys transfers, have the "wrong" painting/ livery.... The transfers that Langley market should come with a "warning", that they are a a mixed bunch, different companies and periods are in there....I haven't had any experience of the resin kits.Craftline Models make a series of canal models, including carrying boats, pleasure boats, and even maintenance boats. They also make kits for lock gates, and a "Llangollen" style lift bridge. I have made up a few of these models, and they can form the basis of really good models, especially now that you can print your own cabin panels on a computer! (Easier than hand painting too!) There was also a card kit available from Novus Publishing to make up into a 4mm-1ft scale model of "Ian" a Samuel Barlow Coal Co. Wooden Motor Narrow Boat. This may still be available from Lockmaster Crafts? The Crafline Balsa model kits can make up quite well.... The Narrow Boat model is a detailed and customised "Craftline Models" Balsa Wood kit.This boat represents the "Tench" one of the Motor Boats of Fellows, Morton & Clayton Ltd., in the "later" colour scheme. (The full size boat was built in the 1930s.)FMC were independant traders, and lasted until the Waterways were nationalised. That year they made their first trading loss, and sold out to the BTC, Docks and Inland Waterways Executive, known better as British Waterways. The FMC boats were slowly intergrated and re-painted into BW livery. This model boat must be due for a re-paint soon...the layout is set in 1952-1954! Crafline Models "Llangollen Canal" Dutch Type Lifting Bridge.This is a model out of our Canal Stuff Box. It was made some time ago, and I have now done some more work on it, including making a base.There is a bit of detailing, including changing the wire supplied to connect the bridge deck to the beams with some chain.Not finished off, but still nice.Later..... Edited December 3, 2015 by Sarahagain 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium figworthy Posted December 3, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2015 There are some kits that scale as 45 Ft long, and are, to put it mildly, not very accurate...I know it is like rivet counting, but the windows are not very likely on a "carrying" boat. OK on a "cabin" boat (pleasure boat) though. Scalescenes make some Narrow Boat Models, that are also a bit short, at somewhere around 65 Feet. (And some Lock Gates, etc. as well...) As you may well be aware, the vast majority of carrying boats were 70 Ft long by 7 Ft beam. Making the boats shorter (for space reasons) is akin to using Tri-ang 6" Coaches! Or the Short Hornby MkIII coaches that were "slated" by some... There were short narrow built during the "hey days". These were built for use on the Huddersfield Narrow canal (whose route was followed by the LNWR Standedge route). Whilst the locks were built to the usual 70ft * 7ft, once the canal got to Huddersfield, it connected with the Huddersfield Broad canal (~57ft * 14ft), so to avoid transshipment, some shorter boats were built. To what extent the reduce capacity offset the transshipment costs I don't know. I have a picture somewhere of one being used as a maintenance boat (I think on the Barnsley canal of all places). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I recently bought the Black Dog Lightmoor book on the Trent and Mersey Canal by Tom Foxon. Absolutely fascinating and an excellent introduction into canals as there are LOADS of photos and details of traffic flows etc. Plenty of lovely shots around the Potteries area for those of us modelling industrial style scenes. Edited December 4, 2015 by 5050 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steam_Julie Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I was walking today, with my sister and her dog Maisy along the Basingstoke canal just outside Woking, Surrey and guess what we saw?A Bantum tug and one of it's compartment boats, these were the barges that the Bantums pushed along, often in multiples.JuliePS this is getting to be a barge blog? Edited April 13, 2016 by Steam_Julie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted December 9, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2015 Because there aren't enough pictures of cats on the Internet, look what I found in the RQ fiddle yard earlier today. That's what you get for leaving some foam rubber in there! 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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