Caley Jim Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 In my post #150 (bottom of the page) at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107459-oxford-rail-announces-oo-gauge-4-plank-wagons/page-6 there's some metal scrap in the wagons, and what's that in the GCR wagon? This is obviously taken in the yard of a company producing pipes and other metal fabrications. I would suggest it the the ridged top for some sort of storage unit or the like. In the background is a CR Dia 24 8T open wagon, but I can't make out what is in it. Jim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted August 6, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) To see what loads just browse through these pages: http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/centralgoods.htm http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lawleystreet.htm http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/hockley_goods_part1.htm#sidings http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/moorstreet-goods.htm Plenty to consider! Keith And what are these? http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1219.htm Edited August 6, 2016 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 It's described as a Cambrian 3 plank wagon loaded with slates, but I agree that it looks more like a two plank to me (though I know nothing about the 'other' CR). Jim No doubt about it, it's 2 plank. They have quite deep curb rails which aren't much thinner than the planks. There is a 3 plank of exactly the same dimensions and which uses thinner planks to keep the overall height the same. I'd initially have said slates too, however normal practice would be to have some sacrificial ones sticking out on top which are used to wedge the rest in place. Could perhaps be tiles, plenty of brickworks served by the Cambrian. Livery is pre 1899. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted August 7, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 7, 2016 Keith And what are these? http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1219.htm Looks to me like rolls of chain link fencing with a wooden protective frame round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Of course, the staff did not always follow the rules, and this often led to damaged wagons. The book of GWR Wagon Loads (by Jim Russell?) shows quite a few of these, all with foreign wagons. (Because of course the GW would never load anything incorrectly. ) You are indeed correct, it is by Jim Russell, Oxford Publishing Co., ISBN 0-86093-155-2. (You are also spot on!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian@stenochs Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Hi All, Cattle vans are easy to load or even run empty as they did half of their time. Moreover they spent quite a while just sitting in a siding waiting so would look inhumane to have cows left marooned so better to leave them empty. However cattle vans take forever to build with all their slats etc. If you fancy something a bit less common the Glasgow & South Western Assn have released a limited edition multi media kit for a 6 ton van. It's 7mm scale and features resin body lost wax brakes and sprung axleboxes. Only a few left and they will be available from stand 119 (Scottish lines societies) at Telford this weekend. Sorry for the blatant plug. Ian. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggy1165 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Thank you for the heads-up Ian. I shall be making a bee line for that stand. It looks a beautiful kit, and I want one. I'll think about excuses for running it later. My real excuse is that I like Scottish wagons, and the G&SW is one of my favourite 'foreign' railways. Had a fondness ever since being fascinated after coming across the remnants of Dunure station during a childhood holiday at a well-know establishment at Heads of Ayr. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Urine was collected from pubs, also for leather tanning. The poor collected their own at home to sell too. Hence the phrases "taking the p___". Also, the poorest of the poor "didn't have enough money for a pot to p___ in". Was the piss supplied free or was there a charge for this ? The contract to collect piss from the pubs must have been quite lucrative ! Was it sent in barrels like beer ? Edited January 17, 2017 by brian777999 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Was the piss supplied free or was there a charge for this ? The contract to collect piss from the pubs must have been quite lucrative ! Was it sent in barrels like beer ? The money paid by the user would have paid for the collection and transport. The man who collected from Llanelli pubs didn't give the impression of earning much, but at least, my great-aunt used to say, he didn't ask for credit. Barrels would have been used; whether they back-loaded beer in the same barrels, I wouldn't like to say, but I suspect some might have.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) ...... Barrels would have been used; whether they back-loaded beer in the same barrels, I wouldn't like to say, but I suspect some might have.. Real Ales ? Edited January 17, 2017 by Penlan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 The money paid by the user would have paid for the collection and transport. The man who collected from Llanelli pubs didn't give the impression of earning much, but at least, my great-aunt used to say, he didn't ask for credit. Barrels would have been used; whether they back-loaded beer in the same barrels, I wouldn't like to say, but I suspect some might have.. Happy that we now have a thriving industry in real ales, mini and micro breweries, and micro pubs. When I started drinking some 40 odd years ago, some nights you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, except perhaps the beer was fizzier... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Happy that we now have a thriving industry in real ales, mini and micro breweries, and micro pubs. When I started drinking some 40 odd years ago, some nights you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference, except perhaps the beer was fizzier... Trouble is both nationally and in our local RBL Club, Lager is around 80% of sales, everything else (draught) including Real Ale, Guinness, Cider, etc., is in that 20% 'ish bracket. Even though we have 3 different Real Ales* pulled through by bar pumps, in our Legion Club, according to our buyer he has more problems etc., (comments, requests etc.,) with this small part of the turn-over, than the rest of his sales altogether. BUT the cellar is kept perfect, never a bad pint. * We have 'Betty Stogs' (always available), Brains 'Rev. James', and Crowlas Brewery 'Potion 9' on tap today, 'Courage Best' followed by 'London Pride' are waiting in the wings....... with Wickwar's 'Bob' promised very soon. Oooops, forgot we have Tetleys on tap (not pulled through) all the time too, but I've never thought of that as a real ale. We only have 'Thatchers Gold' as the tap cider, plenty of variety in bottles though. Simond, we often drift into the past on a Wednesday evening and recall the Party 7's etc., only Watneys available, blah blah...... Mind you when I went to work in Norwich in 1967, outside the main towns you could only get Cider or Mild anyway. Bitter and Lager were unheard of. MEANWHILE, back on topic, just looking at old photo's of the larger Goods Depots should at least help to spot most of the common loads. Edited January 17, 2017 by Penlan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted January 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2017 I have a load of oil drums from a ww2 model set, but can I use them for pre 1923? As I am asking I might as well ask when too were wooden pallets introduced, the kind that fork lift trucks shift around and also the metal pressurized beer barrels ? Could I use these as time accurate pre grouping wagon loads too? Many thanks Richard Looking for something else, as always, I came across an article in a bound copy of Railway Magazine for 1928 - the only one I have - on railhead distribution for industrial products. There are pictures of flat and wooden sided pallets in use then. I know it is a bit after grouping, but it does show that they do go back to the inter-war period. The manual pallet-lifters are referred to as 'jiggers'. They also have caged trollies that must have been the fore-runners of brutes. The article records that these were used for Cadbury's products and they were loaded 14 to a van. There is a double-page spread of L.M.S. closed and open containers - A,B,C,& D - and a table with their dimensions. The article concludes with statistics on claims for damage relating to containerized goods, which were being cited as low and supporting the benefits of using this method of carriage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Our neighbour was an estate worker for many years and as a younger man enjoyed listening to the older workers accounts. He told me that if they needed to get rid of something awkward, a dead animal or a rotten post, folk used to wait on an overbridge and then chuck it into a passing goods train. I don't suppose this information will create a market for 3-D prints of dead badgers or foxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted January 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Our neighbour was an estate worker for many years and as a younger man enjoyed listening to the older workers accounts. He told me that if they needed to get rid of something awkward, a dead animal or a rotten post, folk used to wait on an overbridge and then chuck it into a passing goods train. I don't suppose this information will create a market for 3-D prints of dead badgers or foxes. Come now, there's a growing interest in animated accessories - lobbing something as distinctive as a badger onto a passing open wagon is just asking to be mechanised. What's more someone will work out a digital programme with gps tracking to get the positioning just right. They did it in the 1960s with mailbags after all, without the benefit of gps.. Edited January 21, 2017 by phil_sutters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 According to the Castle Aching topic, I am reliably informed that manure would be a staple pre-Grouping wagon load. Reproducing that should be easy. Dried tea leaves in gunk perhaps. Representing the steam coming off it might be more of a challenge. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NCB Posted January 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2017 Googling "railway manure wagon" is quite revealing. Several companies built special manure wagons. The Midland built 100 at one point. The GWR built six, to diagram R1 in 1905, mainly for use with the Fishguard cattle traffic. One survived until 1953, by which time it was carrying beer (!). Otherwise the GWR seems to have converted old opens (Atkins et al). Think there must have been more to it than that. Manure must have been disposed of / utilised more or less since early railway times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 1. What was so special about manure that a special wagon had to be built for it ? Would not the standard 5 plank wagon have sufficed ? 2. Who bought all this manure ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard i Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 1. What was so special about manure that a special wagon had to be built for it ? Would not the standard 5 plank wagon have sufficed ? 2. Who bought all this manure ? 1. It is runny sometimes so wagons might need sealing? No one wanted their goods in a gagon last used for manure so smelly traffic gets own wagon, a la fish. 2. Farmers for fertilizer or tannerys? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2017 Disposal of the manure that was collected off the streets in our cities was a big problem, so the conveyance of it to the country side was big business for the railways and the likes of the Thames barges. As Richard says it was transported to the farms who sent back the other way fodder for the horses to convert in to fertilizer for next years crop of equine nutrition. The internal combustion engine killed this cycle. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 1. What was so special about manure that a special wagon had to be built for it ? Would not the standard 5 plank wagon have sufficed ? 2. Who bought all this manure ? In London, most of the manure went to Kent, to be used on the fruit farms and market gardens. The SECR moved it in sheeted opens. Having a dedicated fleet of manure wagons saves a lot of time and work cleaning out general-service goods wagons after carrying the manure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 It's difficult to imagine in this day and age, but even though London was much, much smaller a century ago, the horse was as much of a problem as the car/van/truck/bus is now, in terms of pollution and congestion. http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/ Taking a reasonable & convenient figure for horse throughput, of 22.4 lbs per horse per day, 100 horses to the ton, and therefore the had to dispose of 500 tons per day - a fairly large trainload. And if the mortality figures are correct, as many as fifty dead horses per day to dispose of too, probably averaging around half a ton each, perhaps 3/4 ton for a drought horse - another couple of wagon loads... And the future? I struggle to understand what level of short-sightedness allowed the removal of the trolley bus and its OLE, but I'm sure that electric traction will form a growing part of the infrastructure of cities in future. Best Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) On that web site Simond directs us to.... there's also the Great London Beer Flood of 1814 here Off topic, but what an interesting web site. Edited January 22, 2017 by Penlan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 You've got to admire the determination of the 9th victim... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Square Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 ...3/4 ton for a drought horse... It's not surprising that the horses were dying if they didn't water them... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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