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WD 2-8-0 in GWR use in 1947


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The Lyons shed book lists a number of "Austerity" WD 2-8-0s at Oak Oak in Dec 1947.

 

If the GWR didn't buy any, what were they doing there?

 

If they were in GW use, what company/ownership branding did they carry?

 

Thanks in advance.

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I assume like a number allocated to the Southern Railway from 1946 that these would have been classed as being on load from the War Department and as such would not have had any ownership branding as per my picture of one of the SR allocated WDs below, although I do know that at least one emerged from Brighton post 1948 with numbers and "British Railways" in SR 'Sunshine' lettering.

post-243-0-84998200-1440159914_thumb.jpg

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If I may induce a little thread drift... I am modelling a fictional location near Oxford in 1945 during wartime, based loosely on Cowley aircraft scrap yard. I'm modelling in n gauge, and need advice ton the most appropriate locomotives.

 

I have some siding that I'd like to be used by a tank engine for shunting, and a main line which I want a big tender engine to pull long trains on. I was thinking of a austerity tank 0-6-0 for the shunter, and a WD 2-8-0 for the main line. But I am tempted by the GWR 2884 (in black with GWR on tender) instead of the WD; but were these all used for the Welsh coal trains?

 

I like the Q1 too, but I guess it would be out of the question for a SR engine to come into the GWR to deliver crashed aircraft parts?

 

Would a pannier be just a suitable for the shunter? Where were WD tanks used- is my scenario plausible?

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Oxford was quite popular with locomotives of other companies.

 

There are other's who will know more but I recall it was popular as a handover between Southern and GW locomotives, I know it spurred me to thinking about a model of a location around Oxford because I could justify locomotives from all the regions owing to the Great Central route also being close by.

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I am tempted by the GWR 2884 (in black with GWR on tender) instead of the WD; but were these all used for the Welsh coal trains?

 

 

 

Make sure you use the right GWR logos - they are different for black engines - Fox make the logos for OO - not sure about N.

 

28XX were used everywhere (apart from small branchlines) for all sorts of freights, so that part is feasible.

Edited by M.I.B
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The GWR took 15 of among those repatriated from Europe after the war, between September, and December 1946. They were originally allocated to Bristol St Phillips, and Oxley, after some were stored for a short while at Richborough, and Kingham. This was followed by another 74 in 1947, which included 77005,77015,77130,77184,77291,78521,78632,79234 were allocated to Old Oak - these were all officially 'loans' from the WD.

 

Info brought to you via Tourret's 'Allied Military Locomotives of The Second World War'(ISBN 0-905878-06-X )

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Excellent, sounds like the Q1 is not ruled out!

I don't think Q1s got to Oxford - they definitely got to Reading West Jcn (and possibly Moreton Cutting?) but as far as I know Southern freight turns went no further west on the Thames Valley although passenger turns off the South Western got to Oxford of course.

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Moreton yard (Nr. Didcot) was a regular Southern loco hauled freight turn from Reading Southern, ex SER Redhill line, usually an N class but other motive power including a Q1 were known.

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I am tempted by the GWR 2884 (in black with GWR on tender) instead of the WD; but were these all used for the Welsh coal trains?

 

 

 

Make sure you use the right GWR logos - they are different for black engines - Fox make the logos for OO - not sure about N.

 

28XX were used everywhere (apart from small branchlines) for all sorts of freights, so that part is feasible.

 

 

I was planning on using these from Fox:

http://fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/gwr-locomotive-initials-yellow-red-for-black-engines

 

I've just noticed the URL explicitly says they are for black engines, which is not mentioned on the page. I had just assumed black engines wouldn't have had the black shadow. Looks like these are the right ones. I thought you might mean the sans serif version, which some source (wiki?) mentioned was used at one works paint shop.

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Moreton yard (Nr. Didcot) was a regular Southern loco hauled freight turn from Reading Southern, ex SER Redhill line, usually an N class but other motive power including a Q1 were known.

Moreton Yard also saw a regular turn from Feltham where apart from N's & Q1's, S15's, and W's were occasionally seen. Thought I'd throw that one in seeing as the Hornby S15 will be a big seller :-)

Edited by bike2steam
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I was planning on using these from Fox:

http://fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/gwr-locomotive-initials-yellow-red-for-black-engines

 

I've just noticed the URL explicitly says they are for black engines, which is not mentioned on the page. I had just assumed black engines wouldn't have had the black shadow. Looks like these are the right ones. I thought you might mean the sans serif version, which some source (wiki?) mentioned was used at one works paint shop.

 

The black engine ones are simple yellow and red.  There is no gold/gilt /gold-leaf anywhere on them.

 

They look very different when you compare them side by side.  

 

You could probably get away with "normal" ones if the tender was getting a very heavy weathering.

 

 

You may be thinking of the Welsh paint shop which used plain/unshaded yellow letters and a font called something like "Monster" on tank engines during WW2.

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Oxford was quite popular with locomotives of other companies.

 

 

It's one of the few places where locos of all four of the Big 4 could be seen regularly.

There are even photos of locations around Oxford with several locos in shot, none of which are GWR!

 

Keith

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Resurrecting a thread from the past

 

I have been trying once again to confirm when exactly Swindon started modifying the Austerity 2-8-0s with fire iron tunnels and top feeds (plus the blue route indicator)

 

i have found a good number of photos showing it in 48/49, along with being directed to an undated photo in MRJ 118 next to GWR liveried stock, but nothing definitive.   My gut feel says it would be a 1948 modification, but I keep hoping for it to be earlier....

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5 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

Resurrecting a thread from the past

 

I have been trying once again to confirm when exactly Swindon started modifying the Austerity 2-8-0s with fire iron tunnels and top feeds (plus the blue route indicator)

 

i have found a good number of photos showing it in 48/49, along with being directed to an undated photo in MRJ 118 next to GWR liveried stock, but nothing definitive.   My gut feel says it would be a 1948 modification, but I keep hoping for it to be earlier....

I also looked into this and didn't find any photos with the mods that predated '48 so I concluded that they were the work of BR(WR) rather than the GWR. Plus there are a good few shots of WDs without these mods on the GWR in 1947, so that's the option I went for on my '47 condition WD.

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1 hour ago, BenL said:

I also looked into this and didn't find any photos with the mods that predated '48 so I concluded that they were the work of BR(WR) rather than the GWR. Plus there are a good few shots of WDs without these mods on the GWR in 1947, so that's the option I went for on my '47 condition WD.

Thanks, I was coming to the same conclusion.  (And that any undated photos from around that period which show the loco and stock with GWR numbers likely just haven’t received their new numbers yet. 

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Information on the WR mods for the WDs is hard to come by if you aren't sufficiently interested to buy class specific publications on spec and see if it's in there. There's nothing in RCTS, which largely ignores them.  There's surely a story there, analogous to the more complete westernisation of the RODs in the 20s, but so far I haven't found a good source. I don't feel affluent enough to buy a selection of books on the class and hope one covers the topic. 

 

I just checked the NRM Swindon drawings list, and there are few relevant drawings recorded. One from Oct 1947, concerning fitting a GW water gauge on the boiler, a couple from june/July 1949 concerning fitting WR standard blow off cocks, and one from 1950 about steam sanding gear. Nothing I could quickly see on the top feed or fire iron tunnel. 

Edited by JimC
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I know the feeling re purchasing books were you are not sufficiently interested in the class, I've made the mistake before (all be it with cheaper books), so I certainly dont want to part with £30 or so on a WD text which may or may not have any useful details.   

 

I did source the MRJ issue (118?) from around the time of the Bachmann model's release which went into detail on the history.   There is a photo of 77028 with no smokebox number, fire iron tunnel and top feed with no cover.  (and a second photo with cover but clearly in '49 given the loco has the BR smokebox plate, all be it with the 77xxx number.

There are two bits of useful information, the first that livery changed from khaki to black from the late 40s when a loco needed a repaint on a works visit.  (pretty much in line with my assumption.)  It goes on to mention the fitting of GW style topfeed covers /   fire iron tunnels being fitted when locos were refurbished at Swindon (followed by a mention that Swindon did not just refurb Western Region locos).  I have seen a mention somewhere else about Swindon refurbishing locos prenationalisation as they returned from Europe, (and there is the mention above of the GWR fitting their own bespoke fittings for the water gauge in October 47).  

 

My reading of all of this is that there is a chance that a loco passing through Swindon works in October - December 47 would have gained the fire iron tunnel (what with it being a standard part).  but the top feed cover was likely a later fitting seeing as it was bespoke (and a good number of locos were fitted with the fire iron tunnel but not the top feed cover.   

 

Really I think the most sensible thing to do would be sell the loco and buy one without the Swindon fittings. But it was a pig to DCC and I quite like the swindonised look so I keep hunting for the evidence of that small number of locos which were in the works in Q4 1947...

 

That said, I see that I can buy a pack of the Bradwell castings which includes a chimney (normally a worthwhile upgrade on a RTR loco) and the topfeed  for £7 plus postage.  which may well be the best way to go....

I think my model will stay on the shelf awaiting a decision before I get on with weathering it (much as I want to get started...)

 

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I have a date for the decision to add the fire iron tunnel to the WD 2-8-0 locomotives.

On the 9th Dec 1947 complaints about the locomotives were formally put to the Railway Executive by GWR drivers.

Included is item 6 Tender tool racks:  To be modified to GWR pattern.

This comes from the Rowledge book on the Austerities published by Ian Allan, page 83.

 

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Brilliant thanks, that confirms it beyond doubt that they would not have completed drawings and implementation on any locos in the short time between that and dec 31st (not to mention the layout is set in October). 
 

will get an order placed for the top feed and remove the fire iron tunnel.

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